Gravity Delivery Discussion

lol, 10 would be more Gravities than they can currently produce.
LOL. There are a number of armchair CEO's on this Board who have lots of feedback on Lucid's foibles. Pretty sure none of them have ever started a car company or produced a car -- let alone one (and likely two) that won (will win) Car of the Year awards. So, while I get people's frustration with the slow roll out of Gravity, I think that a degree of respect and slack is owed to the company for really pushing the boundaries to do outstanding things and believe that a year from now no one is going to remember the three months longer it took to get cars rolling off the line...
 
LOL. There are a number of armchair CEO's on this Board who have lots of feedback on Lucid's foibles. Pretty sure none of them have ever started a car company or produced a car -- let alone one (and likely two) that won (will win) Car of the Year awards. So, while I get people's frustration with the slow roll out of Gravity, I think that a degree of respect and slack is owed to the company for really pushing the boundaries to do outstanding things and believe that a year from now no one is going to remember the three months longer it took to get cars rolling off the line...
Pretty sure everyone is just trying to pass the time until we actually get the vehicle, and then we can complain about all the things that don’t work :/)

Nobody is canceling reservation and dumping their stock…some impatience is good for the market, keeps things moving.
 
LOL. There are a number of armchair CEO's on this Board who have lots of feedback on Lucid's foibles. Pretty sure none of them have ever started a car company or produced a car -- let alone one (and likely two) that won (will win) Car of the Year awards. So, while I get people's frustration with the slow roll out of Gravity, I think that a degree of respect and slack is owed to the company for really pushing the boundaries to do outstanding things and believe that a year from now no one is going to remember the three months longer it took to get cars rolling off the line...

I would totally agree with you, except Rawlinson himself made fun of Tesla in regards to the production hell they experienced with the Model 3. I am only holding Rawlinson/Lucid to the same standards they thought were so easy to achieve.

Be more humble is advise almost anyone needs to take a whole lot more often.
 
There is more demand for the Gravity than they can currently produce. Until / unless they issue guidance as a public company that they will not meet 20k deliveries this year, I am pretty certain they have a plan in place to do that. It shouldn’t be hard. Think about it…air probably easily grows to 12k / 13k given that they did 10k last year, and then add six months of Gravity deliveries on top of that? Easily gets you to 20k.
The run rate on the Air was already 1000 per month at the end of 2024, I agree it is very easy for Lucid to deliver 14k or more Air this year.
 
Lucid has been very open about this since sometime in January. It is the difference between using the Wunderbox like the Air versus the rear motor like Gravity that allows a much higher sustained power for the DC to DC boost when the charging station voltage is below 900V.
Can you elaborate a bit on the use of the rear motor to boost the DC? Physically, how is that accomplished?
 
I would totally agree with you, except Rawlinson himself made fun of Tesla in regards to the production hell they experienced with the Model 3. I am only holding Rawlinson/Lucid to the same standards they thought were so easy to achieve.

Be more humble is advise almost anyone needs to take a whole lot more often.
With THAT I COMPLETELY AGREE -- words to live by!!!
 
What makes this even worse was how Peter "poked the bear" and teased Musk about Lucid not experiencing production hell. Not only did he gain the ire of Musk, which I'm sure led to Lucid getting charger specs much later than other manufacturers, and probably other methods Musk found to punish Lucid, but worse, Rawlinson got shown the door because obviously Lucid was in PRODUCTION HELL.

I can't help but wonder though, how much of that production hell was brought on by Musk. Musk is a very vindictive person. Though Rawlinson may have been right about everything he ever said about Tesla and Musk, there was nothing to gain by voicing those thoughts publicly. Rawlinson is (at least he was) a very confident person who let hubris cloud his judgement. Surely he knew that Musk could have influence even on things not directly in his control. You think if Tesla and Lucid shared a common supplier that Musk didn't put extreme pressure on that supplier to not supply Lucid? I'm sure Musk pulled every string he could to hurt Rawlinson.

One can only hope that since Rawlinson is gone that Musk will ease up. Heck, I'm hoping the new CEO is friends with Musk. Can't possibly hurt.

I can't recall the exact timing and sequence of the barbs that flew back and forth between Musk and Rawlinson, but while it was going on I developed a different impression of it.

It seemed to me at the time that what began to draw Musk's ire was the notice the automotive press began to take of Lucid's power- and drivetrain technology and the eventual consensus that Lucid had stolen the lead from Tesla. And the 2022 Car of the Year award and the quick succession of other awards didn't help. This was when the real barrage started of Musk saying Lucid's business model was doomed, it was headed for imminent bankruptcy, culminating with outright lies such as the outlandish claim that Rawlinson had been nothing but a mid-tier chassis engineer at Tesla when, in fact, Tesla's own press releases named Rawlinson as the Chief Engineer of the Model S, and Rawlinson was the lead presenter when Tesla unveiled the Model S at the L.A. Auto Show in 2011.

As all this was going on, I was surprised that Rawlinson was as restrained as he was. For a long time he simply made factual comparisons of Lucid technology metrics to "others" in the industry. You often knew it was Tesla to which he was referring, but it took a long time before he began to utter the name specifically and even longer to talk in even sketchy detail about his experience of working at and leaving Tesla.

It's worth re-reading the 2020 interview in which Rawlinson mentioned Tesla's production hell. He was being interviewed about EV startups based on his own experience in the industry. He was by and large very complimentary of Tesla, saying that it began as an underdog but soon turned that around to become such a success that it spawned a host of "wannabes" who couldn't replicate Tesla's success. Was production hell mentioned? Sure, but it was a fact, it was put in context of Tesla's much broader success, and it never pointed a finger as Musk personally.

 
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I wouldn’t say easy based on the discounts and losses mounting for every vehicle they sell…
What do you mean by "losses mounting for every vehicle they sell"? That implies that it cost Lucid more to produce each vehicle than they sell it for. At this point in any manufacturer's life cycle that would be a difficult statement to quantify. On the one hand there are the costs of the components, labor, and other direct costs that would not be incurred if that particular car had not been built. I don't know that we have enough detail to know what those costs are, but I would assume that those costs are less than the sales price of each air. Have you seen something that indicates otherwise?

If on the other hand, you are calculating the "loss" per vehicle by including Lucid's entire capital and operating costs spread across each car sold, I'm not sure that's a relevant yardstick at this point in the company's lifecycle. Lucid is in a build-up mode (building staffing, building show rooms and service centers, building two factories, designing new models, building research facilities etc.), presumably all of those investment costs are planned to be carried by a much higher level of production than the number of vehicles being sold. In other words, the individual vehicles may be profitable in terms of direct incremental cost, even though the business itself is spending more than it is bringing in.

An analogy I've used before: Suppose you are opening a new pizza restaurant, you spend $500K to build it. In the first week of operation you sell 100 pizzas at $50 each. Its not accurate to say you are losing $4,950 per pizza. That $500K investment was not meant to be recovered over a 1 week period. If however each pizza cost more than $50 in ingredients and labor and cooking energy, then maybe there is a loss per pizza, but its not going to be $4,950 per pizza.
 
It's worth re-reading the 2020 interview in which Rawlinson mentioned Tesla's production hell. He was being interviewed about EV startups based on his own experience in the industry. He was by and large very complimentary of Tesla, saying that it began as an underdog but soon turned that around to become such a success that it spawned a host of "wannabes" who couldn't replicate Tesla's success. Was production hell mentioned? Sure, but it was a fact, it was put in context of Tesla's much broader success, and it never pointed a finger as Musk personally.
Peter made a number of digs in interviews in the lead up to the Airs start of production. Kept saying they've built a "world class factory" and won't have "production hell" which was clearly a dig at Tesla. We all know how the Air ramp up went and now with billions more spent on this "world class factory" we can see how well the Gravity ramp up is going.

Lucid should really take a lesson from the saying "People with glass houses shouldn't throw stones". You can have the best product in the world but if you can't deliver it then it makes you no better than the others you throw shade at and expect it to come right back at you ten fold.
 
Peter made a number of digs in interviews in the lead up to the Airs start of production. Kept saying they've built a "world class factory" and won't have "production hell" which was clearly a dig at Tesla. We all know how the Air ramp up went and now with billions more spent on this "world class factory" we can see how well the Gravity ramp up is going.

Lucid should really take a lesson from the saying "People with glass houses shouldn't throw stones". You can have the best product in the world but if you can't deliver it then it makes you no better than the others you throw shade at and expect it to come right back at you ten fold.

How was saying Lucid was building a world class factory a dig at Tesla? And we have no indication that the Gravity ramp up pace, whatever anyone thinks of it one way or the other, has anything to do with the factory. It could be engineering issues, supplier issues (there was a brief allusion to such in one of Rawlinson's final interviews), software issues . . . .

If Rawlinson really wanted to take a dig that would get under Musk's skin, all it would have taken would be references to the fact that Lucid was only able to bring the Air to market using Saudi money that Musk had first tried to secure to take Tesla private until his hubris and disregard for SEC rules blew the deal up.
 
How was saying Lucid was building a world class factory a dig at Tesla?
Because Tesla was building cars in tents!
 
Because Tesla was building cars in tents!

So Rawlinson should never have said anything about Lucid's building a factory to bring a car to market? Because it might offend Elon Musk?

My goodness. I never realized what Scaringe was up to over at Rivian with all those videos of the factory they were outfitting and expanding. But I guess it would also explain why Musk was also claiming Rivian was about to go under, too.

I mean, really, c'mon.
 
Yep, because they don’t have to discount to move product in Saudi…they will earn more…makes sense.With present anti EV sentiment, inflation, tariffs…doesn’t make sense to prioritize USA if there us demand in Saudi/Middle East
What if it’s none of that, and the delay in the US is caused by the only thing that’s different from non-US models; NACS? They can’t deliver a car to customers if L3 charging doesn’t reliably work, and they have more experience with CCS, so the Saudi model is ready to go.
I’m starting to think this might be the reason for pushing the Saudi market and opening orders for the Touring there.
 
What do you mean by "losses mounting for every vehicle they sell"? That implies that it cost Lucid more to produce each vehicle than they sell it for. At this point in any manufacturer's life cycle that would be a difficult statement to quantify. On the one hand there are the costs of the components, labor, and other direct costs that would not be incurred if that particular car had not been built. I don't know that we have enough detail to know what those costs are, but I would assume that those costs are less than the sales price of each air. Have you seen something that indicates otherwise?

If on the other hand, you are calculating the "loss" per vehicle by including Lucid's entire capital and operating costs spread across each car sold, I'm not sure that's a relevant yardstick at this point in the company's lifecycle. Lucid is in a build-up mode (building staffing, building show rooms and service centers, building two factories, designing new models, building research facilities etc.), presumably all of those investment costs are planned to be carried by a much higher level of production than the number of vehicles being sold. In other words, the individual vehicles may be profitable in terms of direct incremental cost, even though the business itself is spending more than it is bringing in.

An analogy I've used before: Suppose you are opening a new pizza restaurant, you spend $500K to build it. In the first week of operation you sell 100 pizzas at $50 each. It’s not accurate to say you are losing $4,950 per pizza. That $500K investment was not meant to be recovered over a 1 week period. If however each pizza cost more than $50 in ingredients and labor and cooking energy, then maybe there is a loss per pizza, but it’s not going to be $4,950 per pizza.
Yes, I was just making an overall statement as Lucid would need to sell hundreds of thousands if not millions of vehicles to start making profit on their original investment. It’s obviously still early but at this point it feels like every vehicle is like a million dollars on wheels, at least until they can dilute that with more vehicles on the road.
 
Yes, I was just making an overall statement as Lucid would need to sell hundreds of thousands if not millions of vehicles to start making profit on their original investment. It’s obviously still early but at this point it feels like every vehicle is like a million dollars on wheels, at least until they can dilute that with more vehicles on the road.

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What makes this even worse was how Peter "poked the bear" and teased Musk about Lucid not experiencing production hell. Not only did he gain the ire of Musk, which I'm sure led to Lucid getting charger specs much later than other manufacturers, and probably other methods Musk found to punish Lucid, but worse, Rawlinson got shown the door because obviously Lucid was in PRODUCTION HELL.

I can't help but wonder though, how much of that production hell was brought on by Musk. Musk is a very vindictive person. Though Rawlinson may have been right about everything he ever said about Tesla and Musk, there was nothing to gain by voicing those thoughts publicly. Rawlinson is (at least he was) a very confident person who let hubris cloud his judgement. Surely he knew that Musk could have influence even on things not directly in his control. You think if Tesla and Lucid shared a common supplier that Musk didn't put extreme pressure on that supplier to not supply Lucid? I'm sure Musk pulled every string he could to hurt Rawlinson.

One can only hope that since Rawlinson is gone that Musk will ease up. Heck, I'm hoping the new CEO is friends with Musk. Can't possibly hurt.
I mean Gravity is getting the same cells with slightly different chemistry from Panasonic who is providing batteries for Model 3 and Model Y, so they are far back in the line there as well....
 
So Rawlinson should never have said anything about Lucid's building a factory to bring a car to market? Because it might offend Elon Musk?

My goodness. I never realized what Scaringe was up to over at Rivian with all those videos of the factory they were outfitting and expanding. But I guess it would also explain why Musk was also claiming Rivian was about to go under, too.

I mean, really, c'mon.
OMG, I wasn't the one that brought the topic up and was simply responding to the whole Peter \ Elon situation. Regardless, Peter threw barbs and made out they were going to nail it compared to Tesla and it came back and bit them on the ass. RJ wasn't going out making comments like that at the time. :rolleyes:
 
Yep, because they don’t have to discount to move product in Saudi…they will earn more…makes sense.With present anti EV sentiment, inflation, tariffs…doesn’t make sense to prioritize USA if there us demand in Saudi/Middle East
Brave new world order unfolding real-time. Being relegated to a tier-two country 🫠 I guess this is our “find out” phase.
 
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