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EPA ratings supposedly released

hmp10

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This is the most specific reference I can find to the battery pack and the cells relating to the GT vs. the Dream:


It says this about the battery packs:

"Dream Edition and Grand Touring models will have the same 113-kwh battery pack, but the cells within are different. Initial Dream Edition models use special cells from Samsung, while the Grand Touring and other Air models will use cells from LG."

I wonder what the source of this information is . . . and what is meant by "special" cells? Lucid said back in 2016 that it was working with Samsung to develop a proprietary battery, but it also said the same thing early last year when it announced a partnership with LG Chem to power the "standard versions" of the Air.
 

hmp10

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"Electrek" published an article in late 2016:



Per Albert Liu, Lucid's head of battery technology:

"I have been very pleased with the results of the collaboration with Samsung SDI in developing a cell chemistry that meets our stringent standards. Samsung SDI combined their in-house chemistry expertise with massive real-world datasets and state-of-the-art battery models provided by Lucid to develop a cell that is both energy dense and resistant to damage associated with fast-charging."

Per Peter Rawlinson:

"The breakthrough battery life demonstrated by the new cell from Samsung SDI will be of tangible benefit to our customers, particularly companies with ride-sharing services operating around the clock."

The article went on to say that the cells would enable the Air to attain 400 miles of range -- a real achievement in 2016 -- but it didn't say what the capacity of the pack would be for that range.

I wonder if we're ever going to find out the chemistry of these batteries and what's so "special" about them?
 

hmp10

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I'm wondering if the apps for streaming services with Dolby Atmos are going to come installed in the car.
I just found the answer to my question in a section of the UX promo video about which I had forgotten. It appears that Tidal will come already loaded in the car:

Screen Shot 2021-09-20 at 1.47.13 PM.png
 

hmp10

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Not sure. In the video, Jenkins said that Apple Car Play and Android would be available, "with many more popular apps to come". I interpret that to mean that you can access other apps through your phone but you cannot load them into the car's UX system yourself. But I'm kind of a Luddite on these kinds of streaming technology questions.
 

Lucken

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It might be similar to Tesla's approach. They were also very protective of their UX system.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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I think I'm going to have to take delivery with the unattractive 19" wheels. With our planned road trip of over 2,000 miles and crossing a desert, both real and of chargers we need to have the best range. Hopefully, Lucid will allow me to order the 21" wheels for shipment home.

I think we're going to add a stop at the Four Corners Monument.
 

Alex

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I think I'm going to have to take delivery with the unattractive 19" wheels. With our planned road trip of over 2,000 miles and crossing a desert, both real and of chargers we need to have the best range. Hopefully, Lucid will allow me to order the 21" wheels for shipment home.
I’m getting the 19” wheels too. I was told many months ago we would have a chance to order the 21” at the same time as an additional option. The 21” are summer tires and would not be suitable for traveling during the winter, if you were to encounter low temperatures or snow/ice.
 

Lucken

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I actually don’t find the 19s decent looking. The 21s are more attractive IMO, but the added range of the 19s is always nice.
 

hmp10

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Over the past few weeks more information has emerged about whether the Dream Edition battery pack is any different from the Grand Touring battery pack or whether the only differences are in software.

The EPA documents show the Dream has a 118-kWh pack, and the Grand Touring a 112-kWh pack. This squares with Rawlinson's recent comments about the Dream's pack not being "decisively" different from the 112-kWh pack of the Grand Touring in terms of capacity.

On September 16, "Green Car Reports" confirmed what had been suggested indirectly by the wording of earlier press releases: "Initial Dream Edition models use special cells from Samsung, while the Grand Touring and other Air models will use cells from LG."

That phrase "special cells from Samsung" might explain the 6-kWh difference between the two packs. Reading the press releases from Lucid and Samsung from several years ago against the press releases from Lucid and LG Chem last year, something stands out. There was specific mention that Lucid and Samsung worked together to develop a proprietary chemistry for the batteries Samsung would supply Lucid. Regarding sourcing from LG Chem, Lucid made no mention of special chemistry but instead said that the "standard" Airs had been engineered to take full advantage of the characteristics of the LG Chem cells.

I'm wondering if part of the sharp upcharge for a Dream over a Grand Touring has something to do, in part at least, with amortizing the costs of developing and manufacturing a unique cell for the Dream.

I find it odd that Samsung would have expended this effort without some assurance of a future market beyond 520 cars for the cells it co-developed for Lucid's proprietary use. I'm now wondering if the upcoming tri-motor Air and the larger, heavier Gravity figure into this cell scenario in some way?
 
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Adnillien

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Over the past few weeks more information has emerged about whether the Dream Edition battery pack is any different from the Grand Touring battery pack or whether the only differences are in software.

The EPA documents show the Dream has a 118-kWh pack, and the Grand Touring a 112-kWh pack. This squares with Rawlinson's recent comments about the Dream's pack not being "decisively" different from the 112-kWh pack of the Grand Touring in terms of capacity.

On September 16, "Green Car Reports" confirmed what had been suggested indirectly by the wording of earlier press releases: "Initial Dream Edition models use special cells from Samsung, while the Grand Touring and other Air models will use cells from LG."

That phrase "special cells from Samsung" might explain the 6-kWh difference between the two packs. Reading the press releases from Lucid and Samsung from several years ago against the press releases from Lucid and LG Chem last year, something stands out. There was specific mention that Lucid and Samsung worked together to develop a proprietary chemistry for the batteries Samsung would supply Lucid. Regarding sourcing from LG Chem, Lucid made no mention of special chemistry but instead said that the "standard" Airs had been engineered to take full advantage of the characteristics of the LG Chem cells.

I'm wondering if part of the sharp upcharge for a Dream over a Grand Touring has something to do, in part at least, with amortizing the costs of developing and manufacturing a unique cell for the Dream.

I find it odd that Samsung would have expended this effort without some assurance of a future market beyond 520 cars for the cells it co-developed for Lucid's proprietary use. I'm now wondering if the upcoming tri-motor Air and the larger, heavier Gravity figure into this cell scenario in some way?
This is an interesting thought on Samsung batteries. I did a bit of searching on Lucid Motors batteries over the weekend to see what I could find on cell chemistry and cell voltage. I came up with the same information on special chemistry at Samsung and standard chemistry from LG Chem. Not only would Samsung spend a lot on developing a special chemistry, Lucid would spend a lot programming and validating the battery management system to support the special chemistry. I agree with you that neither Samsung nor Lucid would do this for just 520 cars. It could be for the Dream along with future models or it could just be a development targeted for a future models. It also could be for the Dream and GT. The upcharge for the GT over the Touring is greater than the upcharge for the Dream to the GT. Maybe both the Dream and GT use Samsung battery and the Touring and Pure will use LG batteries. That may explain why some reports are showing 88 kWhr for Touring and Pure battery capacity which is lower than just removing 4 of 22 modules from the 112kWhr GT (91.6kWhr). However, that discrepancy is less than the capacity difference between the Dream and GT. It is all speculation until Lucid publishes something official.

There was an Inside EVs article from Nov of 2020:
"Additionally, Lucid is including the same ultra-high-speed charging on the Lucid Air Pure as is included on the top trim Dream Edition. We like that they are making all versions of the Air charge at the same 300+ kW so the least expensive version still accepts the same amount of power as the most expensive Air does."

Based on this I don't think the cell chemistry is based on improving the charging speed but related to either performance, capacity or energy density. Meaning it is for the higher performance versions of the Air or Gravity.
 
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