Cold weather battery tips

[Bunnylebowski]

I haven’t been able to find an answer to this question: Tom Moloughney in a recent article criticizing an F150 Lightning YouTuber (typical guy who gets cars to slam them to get clicks and then flips them for another one he probably can’t afford) who bashed the F150 for terrible winter range. He did a bunch of EV efficiency no-nos though. What Tom said were two things that caught my ear though. He said leaving the car plugged in keeps the battery warm even if it’s not charging, whereas leaving it unplugged cold-soaks the battery resulting in worse winter efficiency. Does the Lucid actually keep the battery warm by being plugged in even if not charging? Lucid basically recommends leaving the car plugged in all the time but I wasn’t sure if this is why. I feel like you’re wasting a lot of energy doing this because the 2kw phantom drain means the car is constantly recharging for no reason (leave car plugged in for 10 days and you’ve flushed 20kw or 15% SOC down the toilet). Also does pre-conditioning the battery while plugged in improve efficiency because then you’re driving a warmed up battery in cold weather? The Lucid doesn’t allow you to do this remotely, so you’d have to go out to the car and do it before unplugging. Hmmmm, time to experiment!

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Dude thanks. Looks like we are getting a week in the teens (degrees Amerikan) for a Solstice gift. Had not thought about battery hygiene at all. Now reading all the posts...this is great. Plugged / unplugged; sub freezing storage at the airport; remotely checking on charge.... so much to do ! Never imagined I would be learning so much just because I bought a new car. This is such a trip. Now battery hygiene...woo woo ! Here am I out in the garage with the car's log book...new columns...time/state of charge/temp. I love this car.

 

[stratus]

Just as an aside. I was gone for 9 straight days and opted to leave the car unplugged.
I only lost 2-3 miles per day of range in an attached garage with a temperature in the middle to upper 30s. This is pretty impressive, in my view.

Wednesday night and Thursday will be an interesting battery cold test , as we will be anywhere from 0 to minus 20 and I am going to drive that sucker around for a while. Or maybe I’ll just move to Southern California and forget about the whole thing.

 

[Shuasha]

Hmm, maybe I'll test this. I have a device that shows instantaneous power usage from the meter.

 

[Overcharged]

I went away for 9 plus days and wondered what cooler weather in Chicago would do to my state of charge.
I charged it to 80% before leaving, it was at 78% when I parked it in my unheated garage on December 8.
It was 40 degrees F in the garage when I returned home on December 18, and the car was at 74%, which was much better than I expected.

 

[borski]

I haven’t been able to find an answer to this question: Tom Moloughney in a recent article criticizing an F150 Lightning YouTuber (typical guy who gets cars to slam them to get clicks and then flips them for another one he probably can’t afford) who bashed the F150 for terrible winter range. He did a bunch of EV efficiency no-nos though. What Tom said were two things that caught my ear though. He said leaving the car plugged in keeps the battery warm even if it’s not charging, whereas leaving it unplugged cold-soaks the battery resulting in worse winter efficiency. Does the Lucid actually keep the battery warm by being plugged in even if not charging? Lucid basically recommends leaving the car plugged in all the time but I wasn’t sure if this is why. I feel like you’re wasting a lot of energy doing this because the 2kw phantom drain means the car is constantly recharging for no reason (leave car plugged in for 10 days and you’ve flushed 20kw or 15% SOC down the toilet). Also does pre-conditioning the battery while plugged in improve efficiency because then you’re driving a warmed up battery in cold weather? The Lucid doesn’t allow you to do this remotely, so you’d have to go out to the car and do it before unplugging. Hmmmm, time to experiment!

I was told it does keep the battery warm when plugged in, but I haven’t tested that personally. I’d be interested in your results!

 

[Electrified]

I was told it does keep the battery warm when plugged in, but I haven’t tested that personally. I’d be interested in your results!

My experience this weekend is that the battery did keep warm while connected to the charger this weekend, temps ranged between -2F to 15F.

 

[ken43]

I haven’t been able to find an answer to this question: Tom Moloughney in a recent article criticizing an F150 Lightning YouTuber (typical guy who gets cars to slam them to get clicks and then flips them for another one he probably can’t afford) who bashed the F150 for terrible winter range. He did a bunch of EV efficiency no-nos though. What Tom said were two things that caught my ear though. He said leaving the car plugged in keeps the battery warm even if it’s not charging, whereas leaving it unplugged cold-soaks the battery resulting in worse winter efficiency. Does the Lucid actually keep the battery warm by being plugged in even if not charging? Lucid basically recommends leaving the car plugged in all the time but I wasn’t sure if this is why. I feel like you’re wasting a lot of energy doing this because the 2kw phantom drain means the car is constantly recharging for no reason (leave car plugged in for 10 days and you’ve flushed 20kw or 15% SOC down the toilet). Also does pre-conditioning the battery while plugged in improve efficiency because then you’re driving a warmed up battery in cold weather? The Lucid doesn’t allow you to do this remotely, so you’d have to go out to the car and do it before unplugging. Hmmmm, time to experiment!

I don't see that constantly recharging is flushing 20kW down the toilet. It only recharges if there is room to do so. If it were not plugged in, the car would still be losing battery charge, and the net result should be the same at the end of the day. If you recharge while plugged in you might use 20kW, but if not plugged in you will still lose that same 20kW and will need to recharge it when you do eventually plug in??

 

[RichMalden]

Just to relay my recent experience with cold weather charging do you can plan ahead, my car was outside a couple of days during the recent cold snap (15-20°s). I was going to charge so turned on preconditioning but only about 20 minutes before arriving at the charger.

When I connected it, the car's dash showed a message that the car was limiting charging speed because the battery was cold. I think it kept it in the high 30s for kwh during that time. After a little while the charging speed did increase and the message went away.

Do, good to precondition longer when able but you'll be well informed and protected by the car when you can't.

 

[Volund]

I don't see that constantly recharging is flushing 20kW down the toilet. It only recharges if there is room to do so. If it were not plugged in, the car would still be losing battery charge, and the net result should be the same at the end of the day. If you recharge while plugged in you might use 20kW, but if not plugged in you will still lose that same 20kW and will need to recharge it when you do eventually plug in??

if you don't wake the car, it won't charge, it'll hit 'charging session complete' and then stop.
Walk up to the car, you'll see that the battery level indicator outside shows no power, it's black/not green or lit up.

When you wake it up, then it'll initiate charge again.
So maybe it's keeping the battery warm with the charger alone, and not using battery power or kw from the battery to do so.

I haven't done any tests, but just a guess

 

[njg-agt]

I don't see that constantly recharging is flushing 20kW down the toilet. It only recharges if there is room to do so. If it were not plugged in, the car would still be losing battery charge, and the net result should be the same at the end of the day. If you recharge while plugged in you might use 20kW, but if not plugged in you will still lose that same 20kW and will need to recharge it when you do eventually plug in??

Phone battery hygiene tells us that it is indeed back to keep a charged phone plugged in (same basic use case) as it consumes charge cycle and in today's Li batteries these are a limited resource (the battery starts to degrade due to internal chemical changes). This is why it is better to run the battery between 20 & 80% SOC (give or take) and not take it up to 100% (or down to 0%) on a regular basis.

 

[EVCar]

The Lucid Video Series on Charging recommends having the car plugged in every day. Is this your practice?
For home charging, do I need to pre-condition the battery?
Thanks.

 

[joec]

The Lucid Video Series on Charging recommends having the car plugged in every day. Is this your practice?
For home charging, do I need to pre-condition the battery?
Thanks.

I plug in every day. Why not? Keeps me at 80% at the start of every day, so I don’t have to think about my SoC for the most part.

I do not believe there is any need to pre-condition the battery for L2 charging. Unless your home parking space is extremely cold. The more electrical-engineering oriented among us can correct me on that if I’m wrong.

 

[Adnillien]

The Lucid Video Series on Charging recommends having the car plugged in every day. Is this your practice?
For home charging, do I need to pre-condition the battery?
Thanks.

You are in Phoenix, no need to plug in everyday unless you want to or need the range. I only plug in 2-3 times per week, some weeks less depending on how much driving I do. There is no need to precondition for Level2 charging. Let the car handle the battery thermal management while plugged in rather than drain the battery with some kind of preconditioning.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

My experience this weekend is that the battery did keep warm while connected to the charger this weekend, temps ranged between -2F to 15F.

Wait ... doesn't the battery keep itself warm when it's that cold anyway ? I've heard whurrrs and thunks coming from the cold (single digits F) Lucid even when it's been sitting for days unplugged...assuming the pumps are running and thermal fluids heating. Now I'm confused whether to leave it plugged in all the time (at 80%) or leave it alone.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Does the Lucid actually keep the battery warm by being plugged in even if not charging? Lucid basically recommends leaving the car plugged in all the time but I wasn’t sure if this is why.

In summer, I hear more BMS fan noise when plug in. I believe while plugged in, it tend to turn on fan more often to cool off battery than unplugged.

I went away for 9 plus days and wondered what cooler weather in Chicago would do to my state of charge.
I charged it to 80% before leaving, it was at 78% when I parked it in my unheated garage on December 8.
It was 40 degrees F in the garage when I returned home on December 18, and the car was at 74%, which was much better than I expected.

Mine lost 5% in 18.5 days in September Houston 95F weather when it was unplugged while I was in Europe. These are not phantom loss, but Wunderbox is maintaining battery system. I do believe plugged in will let Wunderbox work more for drainage but it is to enhance battery longevity.

 

[Electrified]

Wait ... doesn't the battery keep itself warm when it's that cold anyway ? I've heard whurrrs and thunks coming from the cold (single digits F) Lucid even when it's been sitting for days unplugged...assuming the pumps are running and thermal fluids heating. Now I'm confused whether to leave it plugged in all the time (at 80%) or leave it alone.

This is what was happening on the morning of December 27th, about 11F. I got a notification from Lucid and I opened the app and here what occured, note the time stamps on the screenshots and how it started at 1KW, then at 2KW, I'm assuming both of those KW readings was the battery being warmed up as 0.0 mi/hr was displayed. The charger at my house is a Level 2 SemaConnect.

 

[Volund]

The clear answer from Lucid in the owners manual says to keep it plugged in right?

Also it won't actually charge or keep charging unless you wake the car up, so that's something..

Also anyone know why the FOB acts different to the mobile app?
If I use a fob, I can unlock doors instantly, regardless of if the car is awake or not.

But on the app, I have to wait for the car to wake up before I can unlock the doors. And sometimes when the car doesn't recognize my phone nearby and I have to use the app, I'm standing next to the car like an idiot for 30 seconds while it wakes up.

And the other day it failed to wake up the car after 4 attempts, it finally worked on attempt 5

 

[Tesla2.0]

The clear answer from Lucid in the owners manual says to keep it plugged in right?

Also it won't actually charge or keep charging unless you wake the car up, so that's something..

Also anyone know why the FOB acts different to the mobile app?
If I use a fob, I can unlock doors instantly, regardless of if the car is awake or not.

But on the app, I have to wait for the car to wake up before I can unlock the doors. And sometimes when the car doesn't recognize my phone nearby and I have to use the app, I'm standing next to the car like an idiot for 30 seconds while it wakes up.

And the other day it failed to wake up the car after 4 attempts, it finally worked on attempt 5

It’s about Bluetooth micro-signal detection. When your phone is on with app open and focused has different Bluetooth strength from when your phone is off with black screen.

I notice for Polestar 2, you have to have phone in your pocket regardless phone is on or app is focused and touch the marking on door handle to unlock. I haven’t tried that with Air. With each OTA update, somehow it feels slightly different response. I haven’t have door failed to open yet. Sometimes very fast, sometimes a little slow I have to open app.

 

[Electrified]

The clear answer from Lucid in the owners manual says to keep it plugged in right?

Also it won't actually charge or keep charging unless you wake the car up, so that's something..

Also anyone know why the FOB acts different to the mobile app?
If I use a fob, I can unlock doors instantly, regardless of if the car is awake or not.

But on the app, I have to wait for the car to wake up before I can unlock the doors. And sometimes when the car doesn't recognize my phone nearby and I have to use the app, I'm standing next to the car like an idiot for 30 seconds while it wakes up.

And the other day it failed to wake up the car after 4 attempts, it finally worked on attempt 5

Yes and no, during the cold snap I did plug the car in at night. Yesterday evening I went and picked up a pizza and rather than park under the carport (charger is under the carport) I parked in the driveway for an easier exit with pizza in hand, in any event I knew it was going to drop to 27F and left the car in the driveway overnight; according to the first sentence below that would seem to be OK according to the owners manual, but then the second sentence states 41F, in my mind anything between 15F and 95F is not extreme.
The owners manual is somewhat confusing, in the extreme weather we had last Friday (-2F) I drove to work in a car that was on the charger overnight, I consumed 8% (80% to 72%) the car was only going to be parked five hours; according to the owners manual should I have plugged in or not?

CAUTION: Do not expose your vehicle to extreme temperatures for long periods without driving or connecting to a charging cable, as this can negatively affect battery pack life. When temperatures are below 41°F (5°C) and you are not driving your car, connect to a charging cable.