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Charging manners: should you educate folk hogging to 100% SOC ?

sk8ndad said:
There are plenty of people that don’t have an option to charge at home. Think of apartments and condos or homes with no off street parking. These are challenges that must be met for EV adoption.
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Great point sk8ndad. I did not consider apartments without charger access.
 
Dhimiter said:
They need to be a lot more than that and graduated. The longer you sit idle, the more each minute costs.

In Norway they’ve found a fix for the weight of the penalty hurting everyone the same. A speeding ticket costs 10% of your annual income. Would love to see this implemented here.
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WTF!!! You got to be joking 😂
 
Bunnylebowski said:
At the Cabazon outlets on the way to Palm Springs, 1/4 EA chargers and 1/2 EVGo chargers were offline, and two EA and one EVGo were occupied. The available EA one I tried wouldn’t initiate a charge on the Polestar I had rented, it just kept spinning eternally and the EA person I called couldn’t get it to work. Next to me was a Jaguar plugged in at 100% for over an hour (it said the time on the charger). I called EA and asked if they could stop the charging session because then I could push the emergency release button on this jerk Jaguar owners car and plug in. EA refused to stop end their session even though the idle fees aren’t very expensive. Luckily another driver then unplugged and left so I took their spot. It took 20 minutes, my kid was screaming in the background, and it was almost 100F out. Then the Jaguar lady came out with her shopping bags and was utterly indifferent she’d taken up a spot forever. I was too exasperated and depleted by that point to tell the Jaguar lady the headache she’d caused me and my family, but I expect all of this to get worse before it improves.
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Typical self-absorbed southern Californian. I’m sorry you had to put up with that.

As @hydbob said above, Idle Fees would fix a lot of these problems. I can’t remember anymore - were we required to input a credit card when setting up our Lucid account? When Tesla announced the institution of Idle Fees, they launched the programme with a vengeance. They were dead serious. To the tune of a dollar a minute. Tesla were able to do so because they just charged the credit card I had on file on my Tesla owner account.
 
The following mechanisms for charging fees should be the following, self-educating, and intuitive:
1) No cars waiting or available DC chargers.
- No idle fees.
- No increased rates, except DC incompatible cars with a baseline price increase.
2) No DC fast chargers with DC compatible cars + available 150 chargers
- If DC compatible and pulling over 150, continue as stated with #1.
- If not DC compatible, immediate rate increase on charging session.
- If below 150, 5 minute warning with rate increase (typically upper percentile of battery).
- Idle fees do step up increases while #2 or #3 conditions persist
3) No chargers available with queue
- Two queues: DC compatible and "slow" cars. Each go to respective station.
- Immediate fees for charging below 150 on DC fast chargers.
- Immediate fees for charging above 80% at high demand.
- Idle fees do step up increases while #2 or #3 conditions persist

I understand this segments EV owners into two classes: fast and slow. That is the way of the world though. The above more or less enforces "Don't be a douchebag" via the wallet. Or if you really need 100%, then you will need to pay a premium when there is demand.
 
Dhimiter said:
They need to be a lot more than that and graduated. The longer you sit idle, the more each minute costs.

In Norway they’ve found a fix for the weight of the penalty hurting everyone the same. A speeding ticket costs 10% of your annual income. Would love to see this implemented here.
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I'm in Sweden right now and almost every car on the road is electric. I see charging stations of different brands by the 2 and 3 everywhere and I hardly see anyone charging. Definitely no lines to charge anywhere. They run their trains on electric and the grid is rock solid.

How in the world have we not figured this out in the US? As a country, we have turned that responsibility over to almost exclusively EA, who is intent on blowing up the whole thing. Yes, I believe it is on purpose. The only other practical option we have is Tesla, but our CEO is too proud to accept it. Sad state of affairs.
 
Bunnylebowski said:
At the Cabazon outlets on the way to Palm Springs, 1/4 EA chargers and 1/2 EVGo chargers were offline, and two EA and one EVGo were occupied. The available EA one I tried wouldn’t initiate a charge on the Polestar I had rented, it just kept spinning eternally and the EA person I called couldn’t get it to work. Next to me was a Jaguar plugged in at 100% for over an hour (it said the time on the charger). I called EA and asked if they could stop the charging session because then I could push the emergency release button on this jerk Jaguar owners car and plug in. EA refused to stop end their session even though the idle fees aren’t very expensive. Luckily another driver then unplugged and left so I took their spot. It took 20 minutes, my kid was screaming in the background, and it was almost 100F out. Then the Jaguar lady came out with her shopping bags and was utterly indifferent she’d taken up a spot forever. I was too exasperated and depleted by that point to tell the Jaguar lady the headache she’d caused me and my family, but I expect all of this to get worse before it improves.
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This is such a sad and unfortunately common problem. This is one of the many reasons I decided to pull the trigger on an R1s instead of waiting for the Gravity. I will not buy another car that is reliant on EA for long trips. One of my concerns about the R1S was that it only gets a maximum 340 miles per charge. However, once we are fully on the Tesla network, this will be the car we take to LA and Palm Springs. I don't mind stopping 1 more time to charge if it saves me from having to deal with EA.
 
It is why I will not buy a car without a 500 mile or preferably a 1000 km EPA range. I really need that for trips as the charging infrastructure is so bad. With that range, I can charge once on a long day drive or charge and take many short trips from a hotel that does not have EV charging. I have always been chastised for saying that because you don’t need that range because of “bathroom stops“ or general breaks. I can understand why some EV owners want to get a full battery since their range is limited.
 
Sandvinsd said:
It is why I will not buy a car without a 500 mile or preferably a 1000 km EPA range. I really need that for trips as the charging infrastructure is so bad. With that range, I can charge once on a long day drive or charge and take many short trips from a hotel that does not have EV charging. I have always been chastised for saying that because you don’t need that range because of “bathroom stops“ or general breaks. I can understand why some EV owners want to get a full battery since their range is limited.
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I feel blessed with my GT for this season. Sadly, it won’t get me to LA without a charge stop. I will do my best to never have to rely on EA and the compromise will be Rivian once they are in the Tesla Supercharger Network. Ford was also wise to adopt it.
 
Drendino said:
This is such a sad and unfortunately common problem. This is one of the many reasons I decided to pull the trigger on an R1s instead of waiting for the Gravity. I will not buy another car that is reliant on EA for long trips. One of my concerns about the R1S was that it only gets a maximum 340 miles per charge. However, once we are fully on the Tesla network, this will be the car we take to LA and Palm Springs. I don't mind stopping 1 more time to charge if it saves me from having to deal with EA.
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For the record Cathedral City has a bank of EVGO chargers that work as advertised, I just used them on the way back from Joshua Tree to LA so I could skip EA at Palm Springs and Cabazon. I had no issues, that was in a Polestar 2 with 80 miles less range than the R1S. There’s a Starbucks and a few restaurants there, good location. The only other person charging was an Ioniq 6 which looked like a press test vehicle.
 
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I just checked my entire EA log on mobile app, I have been prick once contributing to this EA problem. I plugged in and went into mall to have lunch at Rain Forest Cafe. This was my 3rd month of EV ownership, I didn’t know better. I waited long time for Lucid to release their EVSE and finally gave up waiting and installed Wallbox EVSE at home. Ever since that, I don’t bother with local EA and I have been road tripping EA no issue with just 10-25 min stops.

Speaking from experience, I-10 has always been trouble free, I’ve successfully made a trip from LA to Houston with zero EA issue. I-45, some area like Huntsville is horrible. I’ve heard I-20 going to east coast are just DCFC dessert.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps a simpler answer… switch to per-minute vs per-kWh pricing. It makes those kWh beyond 80% much pricier and incents people (well the smart ones anyway) to move on once the charge tapers.

Here in NYS, EVGo charges per-minute. When I take my Rivian on road trips (no free charging included) I always roll into an EVGo station with a low state of charge and never charge beyond 80%. My cost per kWh ends up around 14 cents (close to the 11-12 cents I pay at home).
 
There was a Ford Mustang charging to 100% at Rancho Penasquitos station today. Three of the 8 units were broken and the other 5 were in use. The Mustang was at 91%, pulling 22 kW when I arrived. I waited for 30’ for a car to finally leave. Meanwhile there were 4 cars behind me, all grumbling at the mustang which, by the end was only pulling 4 kW. It got to 100%, shut off and it took 10’ for the owner to drive up in an ICE car with his wife and daughter. The other owners gave him an earful and he just shrugged that he didn’t care. EA really needs to up the price per kW when over at least 90% SOC and start charging high idle fees.

Of course, just as egregious as the Mustang was a Lucid Grand Touring, owner nowhere in sight the whole time, charging to 95%. Come on Lucid owners, a GT on 20” wheels gets over 459 miles, and you need to charge to 95% while 4 cars are backed up waiting?
 
EricM said:
Perhaps a simpler answer… switch to per-minute vs per-kWh pricing. It makes those kWh beyond 80% much pricier and incents people (well the smart ones anyway) to move on once the charge tapers.

Here in NYS, EVGo charges per-minute. When I take my Rivian on road trips (no free charging included) I always roll into an EVGo station with a low state of charge and never charge beyond 80%. My cost per kWh ends up around 14 cents (close to the 11-12 cents I pay at home).
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My problem is with the charge by hour, the provider is rewarded for poorly performing chargers.
 
EricM said:
Perhaps a simpler answer… switch to per-minute vs per-kWh pricing. It makes those kWh beyond 80% much pricier and incents people (well the smart ones anyway) to move on once the charge tapers.

Here in NYS, EVGo charges per-minute. When I take my Rivian on road trips (no free charging included) I always roll into an EVGo station with a low state of charge and never charge beyond 80%. My cost per kWh ends up around 14 cents (close to the 11-12 cents I pay at home).
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Illegal in CA
 
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