Build quality analysis by Out of Spec Detailing

[Shane_SLC]

Out of Spec Detailing just posted an in-depth build quality analysis featuring my very own Touring! Seems like things are moving in the right direction with some room for improvement. As a new owner I can say I'm happy with the overall state of the car and am not too worried about the issues discussed in the video.

 

[hmp10]

This is the third video I've seen in recent days where the reviewer is griping that Lucid charges $10,000 for Dream Drive Pro that "adds nothing but lane keep assist". They either don't know or don't want to say that Dream Drive Pro brings a more comprehensive sensor suite, including Lidar, that will work with future software updates to move the car to ADAS Level 2+ and 3. (Tesla charges $15,000 extra for "full self driving" that is anything but and that uses sensors and hardware that is already built into every new Tesla.)

Even long-established carmakers have problems with early production quality. For the first six months after Honda introduced its next-generation 2011 Honda Odyssey, it shipped the cars with very noticeable windshield distortion running parallel to the passenger A-pillar, and it never offered a replacement for the affected cars (of which we had one). It also had a faulty gear shift algorithm that took them a year to correct.

My 2004 Mercedes SL55 AMG was delivered with a brake-by-wire system that failed twice and that MB quietly pulled from production the next year.

Our 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid was delivered with several more build quality issues than our Air Dream Performance. Tesla has been building sedans for 10 years, but our Air was No. 154 off the line.

Yes, there have been some hardware snafus with the Lucid. Most noticed by outside reviewers was the ungainly panel gap between the trunk lid and side fenders of the Dreams. Lucid traced that back to a problem with the curing process for the plastic clamshell at the vendor, and subsequent cars do not have the issue. I've been an early adopter for new car models over the years and have a lot of ownership experience with new models. With every passing month, Lucid is rooting out the early build issues and addressing them at a speed on par with or faster than anything I've seen from other much more established carmakers.

Perhaps I'll watch this full review later, but first I've got to get over my pique at that mis-informed slam about Dream Drive Pro. Reviewers really should stay away from topics on which they've not bothered to do any background checking at all.

 

[Shane_SLC]

This is the third video I've seen in recent days where the reviewer is griping that Lucid charges $10,000 for Dream Drive Pro that "adds nothing but lane keep assist". They either don't know or don't want to say that Dream Drive Pro brings a more comprehensive sensor suite, including Lidar, that will work with future software updates to move the car to ADAS Level 2+ and 3. (Tesla charges $15,000 extra for "full self driving" that is anything but and that uses sensors and hardware that is already built into every new Tesla.)

Even long-established carmakers have problems with early production quality. For the first six months after Honda introduced its next-generation 2011 Honda Odyssey, it shipped the cars with very noticeable windshield distortion running parallel to the passenger A-pillar, and it never offered a replacement for the affected cars (of which we had one). It also had a faulty gear shift algorithm that took them a year to correct.

My 2004 Mercedes SL55 AMG was delivered with a brake-by-wire system that failed twice and that MB quietly pulled from production the next year.

Our 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid was delivered with several more build quality issues than our Air Dream Performance. Tesla has been building sedans for 10 years, but our Air was No. 154 off the line.

Yes, there have been some hardware snafus with the Lucid. Most noticed by outside reviewers was the ungainly panel gap between the trunk lid and side fenders of the Dreams. Lucid traced that back to a problem with the curing process for the plastic clamshell at the vendor, and subsequent cars do not have the issue. I've been an early adopter for new car models over the years and have a lot of ownership experience with new models. With every passing month, Lucid is rooting out the early build issues and addressing them at a speed on par with or faster than anything I've seen from other much more established carmakers.

Perhaps I'll watch this full review later, but first I've got to get over my pique at that mis-informed slam about Dream Drive Pro. Reviewers really should stay away from topics on which they've not bothered to do any background checking at all.

I personally believe he is aware of or at the least is capable of understanding what the added Dream Drive Pro option actually enables. However, until Lucid develops and releases additional features, currently it is just lane keep assist. I have every confidence that Lucid will fulfill the promises they've made when it comes to this and I doubt he doesn't feel the same way. In any case, software and the like isn't the focus of the video and I dont think anyone should read into that particular statement too much.

If you do decide to watch the entire video I think you'll see he does acknowledge that Lucid is starting from scratch which presents unique challenges and that every automaker out there has the same or similar issues. I think if you take his perspective into account it's actually a pretty positive critique of the overall quality of the car. As a detailer he is more nitpicky than most of us (including myself) will ever be. As the owner of the car I'm relieved that even after going over the car with such scrutiny there doesn't appear to be any major issues that cannot be fixed.

 

[hmp10]

I personally believe he is aware of or at the least is capable of understanding what the added Dream Drive Pro option actually enables. However, until Lucid develops and releases additional features, currently it is just lane keep assist. I have every confidence that Lucid will fulfill the promises they've made when it comes to this and I doubt he doesn't feel the same way. In any case, software and the like isn't the focus of the video and I dont think anyone should read into that particular statement too much.

If you do decide to watch the entire video I think you'll see he does acknowledge that Lucid is starting from scratch which presents unique challenges and that every automaker out there has the same or similar issues. I think if you take his perspective into account it's actually a pretty positive critique of the overall quality of the car. As a detailer he is more nitpicky than most of us (including myself) will ever be. As the owner of the car I'm relieved that even after going over the car with such scrutiny there doesn't appear to be any major issues that cannot be fixed.

I saw his first video about Lucid paint, and it set off quite a round of worry on this forum at the time. In this new video, he brought it up again, saying the early cars had virtually no paint on them.

I own Dream #154, a very early production car. It has taken two parking lot hits and one service shop hit hard enough to dent two doors and a fender in the past year. Neither those hits nor the removal of them by a "dent doctor" broke the paint surface at all. At over 14 months and almost 17,000 miles, the car's finish looks as good as the day we took delivery.

As for the comment about Dream Drive Pro, even though it's awaiting software enablement of more advanced features, the car requires additional sensors and hardware above the base model for those features. So someone opting for it is getting more than just lane keep assist, even at the outset. They are getting additional sensors and equipment. This reviewer never mentioned that it enabled future features and instead chose to lambast Lucid for charging $10,000 for nothing more than lane keep assist. If he, in fact, knew about coming features but chose to lambast the price without mentioning them, then he was clearly trying to create a negative impression by telling only half the story.

 

[idiot900]

Well, what are those features precisely? And when are they coming? After how many years of depreciation and improvement by competitors will DDP really utilize that equipment?

My Lucid is a fantastic car with only a few minor annoyances, the worst of which ought to be fixed soon. But I don’t think being underwhelmed with DDP and the promise of improvement at an unspecified in the future is an unfair position...I’d call it more of an optimism mismatch

 

[Babyrocko1908]

This is the third video I've seen in recent days where the reviewer is griping that Lucid charges $10,000 for Dream Drive Pro that "adds nothing but lane keep assist". They either don't know or don't want to say that Dream Drive Pro brings a more comprehensive sensor suite, including Lidar, that will work with future software updates to move the car to ADAS Level 2+ and 3. (Tesla charges $15,000 extra for "full self driving" that is anything but and that uses sensors and hardware that is already built into every new Tesla.)

Even long-established carmakers have problems with early production quality. For the first six months after Honda introduced its next-generation 2011 Honda Odyssey, it shipped the cars with very noticeable windshield distortion running parallel to the passenger A-pillar, and it never offered a replacement for the affected cars (of which we had one). It also had a faulty gear shift algorithm that took them a year to correct.

My 2004 Mercedes SL55 AMG was delivered with a brake-by-wire system that failed twice and that MB quietly pulled from production the next year.

Our 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid was delivered with several more build quality issues than our Air Dream Performance. Tesla has been building sedans for 10 years, but our Air was No. 154 off the line.

Yes, there have been some hardware snafus with the Lucid. Most noticed by outside reviewers was the ungainly panel gap between the trunk lid and side fenders of the Dreams. Lucid traced that back to a problem with the curing process for the plastic clamshell at the vendor, and subsequent cars do not have the issue. I've been an early adopter for new car models over the years and have a lot of ownership experience with new models. With every passing month, Lucid is rooting out the early build issues and addressing them at a speed on par with or faster than anything I've seen from other much more established carmakers.

Perhaps I'll watch this full review later, but first I've got to get over my pique at that mis-informed slam about Dream Drive Pro. Reviewers really should stay away from topics on which they've not bothered to do any background checking at all.

I still can't get away from these "Out of Spec" clowns!!!! Not on YouTube, not on Twitter, and now here! Ugh.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

It

I saw his first video about Lucid paint, and it set off quite a round of worry on this forum at the time. In this new video, he brought it up again, saying the early cars had virtually no paint on them.

I own Dream #154, a very early production car. It has taken two parking lot hits and one service shop hit hard enough to dent two doors and a fender in the past year. Neither those hits nor the removal of them by a "dent doctor" broke the paint surface at all. At over 14 months and almost 17,000 miles, the car's finish looks as good as the day we took delivery.

As for the comment about Dream Drive Pro, even though it's awaiting software enablement of more advanced features, the car requires additional sensors and hardware above the base model for those features. So someone opting for it is getting more than just lane keep assist, even at the outset. They are getting additional sensors and equipment. This reviewer never mentioned that it enabled future features and instead chose to lambast Lucid for charging $10,000 for nothing more than lane keep assist. If he, in fact, knew about coming features but chose to lambast the price without mentioning them, then he was clearly trying to create a negative impression by telling only half the story.

This is what they do which is why I called all of them disingenuous. He knows full well what DDPRO entails and why it's $10,000. Truth doesn't lead to likes though.

 

[Shane_SLC]

I do agree that their wording in certain cases has been less than ideal, and I respect that others do not have the same opinions about the Out of Spec team that I do. That being said, I personally
don't think any of them are trying to be deliberately misleading. I think they are genuine in their concerns and are only bringing up issues in the hopes that they can be resolved or improved upon for future owners. Am I just being naive? Perhaps, but that is my perspective, and I certainly don't disparage anyone for their own.

Regarding the "having no paint" issue, I think what the average owner and what a professional detailer would consider to be a paint issue are very different. I don't think he means to say that the paint on that particular car was about to flake off at the slightest touch or not stand up to normal abuse, but that he as a detailer was not comfortable working on it more without removing more paint and potentially causing issues later. That is his opinion and not necessarily truth in all cases. I don't agree with his statement on Dream Drive Pro, either, but I respect his opinion, and I felt there was much more useful feedback later in the video.

 

[raj]

I’ve had my Touring with DDP less than a week. Twice during my purchase I was told that if I didn’t buy it I would still get a three month free trial of DDP. Are they selling some cars with DDP hardware but not enabling it without a purchase or subscription? Or did the sales people not know what they were talking about? (I asked the delivery guy about tire pressure and said “anything above 40 is good” lol…)

 

[joec]

I’ve had my Touring with DDP less than a week. Twice during my purchase I was told that if I didn’t buy it I would still get a three month free trial of DDP. Are they selling some cars with DDP hardware but not enabling it without a purchase or subscription? Or did the sales people not know what they were talking about? (I asked the delivery guy about tire pressure and said “anything above 40 is good” lol…)

Wow. Well, the tire pressure comment is so wrong I would not put much faith in anything else that person said.

So far, as far as we know, all Airs that have shipped have the hardware for DDP and SSP built in. If you didn’t pay for those features, a trial starts as of your delivery. Some who have had their cars for three months are reporting they have not yet been given any sort of notice that the trial has ended, and the features are still working. This is likely an oversight on Lucid’s part, and they will eventually turn those features off unless those folks pay. But who knows? Some people may get lucky and never have to pay? I would not count on that.

It’s easy to tell if DDPro is active in your car. Just look at the 360 view when parking. If the full 360 view appears, you have DDP hardware installed.

 

[raj]

Interesting, thanks. Maybe they’re not going to turn it off until they release the DDP software, so that owners get a chance to experience the full features before deciding to upgrade? If someone originally chose not to buy they aren’t going to upgrade based on the current features!

 

[hmp10]

Well, what are those features precisely? And when are they coming? After how many years of depreciation and improvement by competitors will DDP really utilize that equipment?

My Lucid is a fantastic car with only a few minor annoyances, the worst of which ought to be fixed soon. But I don’t think being underwhelmed with DDP and the promise of improvement at an unspecified in the future is an unfair position...I’d call it more of an optimism mismatch

You have to remember that Lucid's first cars hit the market just over a year ago. After more than a decade on the market, there are many Tesla owners who paid thousands for FSD, owned their cars for several years, and sold them without ever having had full self driving. (Even at $15,000 today, you still don't get what it perpetually claims is coming.)

Lucid entered the market with primitive user software, as they were doing everything from the ground up and did not have earlier models in the lineup to draw from. If we had to wait for fully-fledged user software, all current owners would still be waiting to get our cars.

Let's compare Lucid to the company that claims to be "a software company", that's been at it over ten years, and that many people view as at the apogee of automotive software -- Tesla -- and compare it with what Lucid has already enabled since their cars first came out:

Satellite maps (with more functionality than Tesla's)
USB reading of music sticks (something our 2021 Tesla cannot do)
Apple CarPlay (not in Teslas)
Bird's-eye-view display (not in Teslas)
Distance indicators upon approaching objects (not in Tesla)
Front camera display during parking (not in Tesla)
Cross-traffic emergency braking (Tesla only displays a warning)

I have a feeling that we're going to see Level 2+ ADAS in our Lucids well before anyone sees full self driving in their Teslas.

 

[idiot900]

You have to remember that Lucid's first cars hit the market just over a year ago. After more than a decade on the market, there are many Tesla owners who paid thousands for FSD, owned their cars for several years, and sold them without ever having had full self driving. (Even at $15,000 today, you still don't get what it perpetually claims is coming.)

Lucid entered the market with primitive user software, as they were doing everything from the ground up and did not have earlier models in the lineup to draw from. If we had to wait for fully-fledged user software, all current owners would still be waiting to get our cars.

Let's compare Lucid to the company that claims to be "a software company", that's been at it over ten years, and that many people view as at the apogee of automotive software -- Tesla -- and compare it with what Lucid has already enabled since their cars first came out:

Satellite maps (with more functionality than Tesla's)
USB reading of music sticks (something our 2021 Tesla cannot do)
Apple CarPlay (not in Teslas)
Bird's-eye-view display (not in Teslas)
Distance indicators upon approaching objects (not in Tesla)
Front camera display during parking (not in Tesla)
Cross-traffic emergency braking (Tesla only displays a warning)

I have a feeling that we're going to see Level 2+ ADAS in our Lucids well before anyone sees full self driving in their Teslas.

No argument that Lucid's software is pretty good given how recently it shipped, and I'm thrilled at the frequency of updates. Overall I am happy with them and happy with my car. For my needs, there is nothing better on the market. It's just that they're selling a $10k package that by modern standards does very little for the price. All I was saying is criticizing this is a totally reasonable take.

Tesla's borderline fraudulent marketing of FSD is a pretty low bar on which to anchor one's expectations IMHO.

The solution in my mind is to collect the $10k when the car's software catches up to the capabilities of that sensor package. Especially since that is a fabulously difficult task for which long delays are to be expected. And with the DDP trial, they're actually doing this!

 

[joec]

No argument that Lucid's software is pretty good given how recently it shipped, and I'm thrilled at the frequency of updates. Overall I am happy with them and happy with my car. For my needs, there is nothing better on the market. It's just that they're selling a $10k package that by modern standards does very little for the price. All I was saying is criticizing this is a totally reasonable take.

Tesla's borderline fraudulent marketing of FSD is a pretty low bar on which to anchor one's expectations IMHO.

The solution in my mind is to collect the $10k when the car's software catches up to the capabilities of that sensor package. Especially since that is a fabulously difficult task for which long delays are to be expected. And with the DDP trial, they're actually doing this!

First, the sensor package costs money. They don’t want to just give it away to everyone.

Second, the money they collect now for DDP helps fund the development of those future features.

You are welcome to not want to partake in that funding; that’s what the free trial is for. Those folks who would rather let others pay for that development. Subscribe when you feel the features have caught up to your expectations.

This is all very clear and obvious to anyone who spends ten minutes looking into Lucid’s current offerings. Or by visiting our fine forums here. The Out of Spec people would rather make off the cuff comments than do a little research.

There’s a difference between criticizing choices and misleading people. The Out of Spec videos have been bordering on the edge of misleading. So a few of us here are criticizing them for it.

 

[hmp10]

No argument that Lucid's software is pretty good given how recently it shipped, and I'm thrilled at the frequency of updates. Overall I am happy with them and happy with my car. For my needs, there is nothing better on the market. It's just that they're selling a $10k package that by modern standards does very little for the price. All I was saying is criticizing this is a totally reasonable take.

Tesla's borderline fraudulent marketing of FSD is a pretty low bar on which to anchor one's expectations IMHO.

The solution in my mind is to collect the $10k when the car's software catches up to the capabilities of that sensor package. Especially since that is a fabulously difficult task for which long delays are to be expected. And with the DDP trial, they're actually doing this!

I understand your viewpoint.

As a very early adopter of Lucid, I struggled through a full year of really, really frustrating software issues and did my share of cursing under my breath (and on the forum). However, at the end of the day, I always come back to the realization that putting a car this good on the road was a monumental task that strained the time and financial resources of a start-up to the limit. So I've been more patient with their wanting to capture as much revenue early on as they can, even for features that still need some time in the oven.

It's Tesla's shenanigans with now charging $15,000 for an FSD system that has been fraudulently marketed from the get-go while raking in the profits that really stirs up my ire. We own a Model S Plaid and a Lucid Air Dream. I have come to look at every Tesla move as a rock that needs turning over to check for an underlying scam. I don't have that feeling about Lucid at all.

 

[idiot900]

I understand your viewpoint.

As a very early adopter of Lucid, I struggled through a full year of really, really frustrating software issues and did my share of cursing under my breath (and on the forum). However, at the end of the day, I always come back to the realization that putting a car this good on the road was a monumental task that strained the time and financial resources of a start-up to the limit. So I've been more patient with their wanting to capture as much revenue early on as they can, even for features that still need some time in the oven.

It's Tesla's shenanigans with now charging $15,000 for an FSD system that has been fraudulently marketed from the get-go while raking in the profits that really stirs up my ire. We own a Model S Plaid and a Lucid Air Dream. I have come to look at every Tesla move as a rock that needs turning over to check for an underlying scam. I don't have that feeling about Lucid at all.

That is an admirable point of view, and you are the exactly the sort of person for whom the DE was the right car.

To Lucid’s credit, they have been clear that the buyer does not get e.g. L3 driving automation with DDP, today. And they have carefully avoided setting the expectation that more capabilities (whatever they may specifically be) would arrive at any defined time.

 

[hmp10]

I've told this story before on this forum, but here it is again:

When I bought my first Tesla in 2015, I paid $3,000 for Enhanced Autopilot, the top-tier ADAS offered at the time. In the ensuing few years they began removing features it originally had, with no partial refund offered.

It originally would operate at any speed. Tesla later limited it to operating only up to 5 mph above the posted speed limit -- something that would get you rear-ended where I live.

It originally would operate on any street or road with center and side lane markings. It was later geo-fenced to operate only on major highways, which made it useless for most of my driving.

Automatic lane change, which was originally advertised as a coming feature, was enabled but then migrated over to the new FSD package and removed from the Enhanced Autopilot in our car.

People might get aggravated that they are asked to pay for something now but wait for promised features to be enabled. Wait until you pay for something with features already enabled and then see them removed one by one.

When we bought our second Tesla in 2021, we didn't pay a dime extra for either of their two ADAS upgrades. I don't trust Tesla not to remove them at will and keep the money.

 

[hmp10]

We have a Lucid that was built in the early days when all the quality problems this detailer complained about in his original review of the Air supposedly occurred. As I've been posting on another thread, our car was seriously damaged in a collision just over a week ago and may be declared a total loss.

Here's what I've learned about Lucid's build quality over 14 months of owning an early car:

1. The paint is fine. We've had three dents removed, none of which marred the paint in any way. Although the lighted "LUCID" logo (supplied by a vendor) on the front chrome bar got a few highway chips (which Lucid addressed under warranty), the paint Lucid itself put on the hood and front fenders remained pristine.

2. Unlike our 2021 Tesla, the panel gaps of our early Lucid were quite good. The only exception was the trunk/fender gap on the plastic rear clamshell, and that problem was traced to a curing process issue at the vendor which was corrected by the end of Dream Edition production.

3. Unlike our 2021 Tesla, every interior element and trim piece in our early Air was installed perfectly.

4. The car is built like a tank. In a frontal collision that deployed every airbag in the car and that took the front end off a Subaru, the body was completely undeformed aft of the A-pillars, and even the front hood deformation was remarkably little. We opened the doors and stepped out with no bruises, aches, or stiffness then or since.

Bottom line . . . if the car is totaled, we are looking for another Dream Edition Performance to replace it instead of a newer GT-P (as I want the torquier rear motor and the gorgeous Santa Monica interior of the Dream). There was nothing in our 14-month experience with an early-build Lucid that would keep me from wanting another one.

 

[idiot900]

4. The car is built like a tank. In a frontal collision that deployed every airbag in the car and that took the front end off a Subaru, the body was completely undeformed aft of the A-pillars, and even the front hood deformation was remarkably little. We opened the doors and stepped out with no bruises, aches, or stiffness then or since.

Everything you wrote is quite reassuring. As much as I care about software, fit, finish, NVH, creaks and rattles, etc (all pretty darn good in the Air)...this outweighs all those.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Interesting, thanks. Maybe they’re not going to turn it off until they release the DDP software, so that owners get a chance to experience the full features before deciding to upgrade? If someone originally chose not to buy they aren’t going to upgrade based on the current features!

That would be very smart. A long time ago, on this forum, I had proposed that Lucid charge a base fee (say $3K) to cover hardware costs but not charge the full amount until users had a chance to determine if they felt it was worth it. A way to stay out of the Tesla trap. This is a reasonable alternative if Lucid waits until some of the features get activated.

Until then, like Tesla's, it is lane keep assist.