Brick or Turtle Incidence

[Steveinarizona]

The problem with a forum like this is that we see the instances where the car suddenly stops on the road but we don't see all the cars that are working perfectly since day one. It is therefore hard to know if the problems are endemic or rare.

 

[Zoef]

I'll keep folks advised... mine went into the shop... rented a Tesla Y, was told to plan on 2 weeks... supposed to start checking on it Monday -- my car is over 3k miles, so not very early.

Exact same things happened to mine on the 7th. How did you get a Tesla? I thought those were not approved.

 

[Slam08]

This is the one failure that could keep me from buying the car. I guess I’ll have to make a quick decision soon. Very disappointing that with the number of these instances, no root cause has been identified.

It’s a software problem most likely. Lucid isn’t known for their software engineers.

 

[Zoef]

Mine is a rear drive unit. Good news is it only took Riviera Beach two days rather than two weeks to identify my issue, unlike last time.

I am going to dispute some of the assumptions on here. I don’t think it is fair to make them and feels like a bit of spin to me. In my case the facts are as follows: I was not a first time poster here seeking answers but a member (although quiet) on this forum and I have had two major problems in back to back succession in a car that was delivered in September and has 3k miles on it. I cannot speak to whether I am an aberration or not. But the simple fact is that my car will have been in for service about as many days as in my possession. I love my car. But when my brother in law asked if he should buy one for my sister in law for Christmas, my answer was unfortunately no. A Mom with two young kids and a job cannot deal with the risks of this car.

People need to ask themselves if they have a life where they can deal with these hassles should they occur. My breakdown occurred Wed afternoon and I didn’t get my Hertz car until Fri after a few follow-ups with Lucid harassing Hertz. Can you survive if you don’t have immediate access to a replacement car?

For people that are prepared and can work around the issues it is absolutely a magical car. But it is not the right car for everyone.

 

[Slam08]

Mine is a rear drive unit. Good news is it only took Riviera Beach two days rather than two weeks to identify my issue, unlike last time.

I am going to dispute some of the assumptions on here. I don’t think it is fair to make them and feels like a bit of spin to me. In my case the facts are as follows: I was not a first time poster here seeking answers but a member (although quiet) on this forum and I have had two major problems in back to back succession in a car that was delivered in September and has 3k miles on it. I cannot speak to whether I am an aberration or not. But the simple fact is that my car will have been in for service about as many days as in my possession. I love my car. But when my brother in law asked if he should buy one for my sister in law for Christmas, my answer was unfortunately no. A Mom with two young kids and a job cannot deal with the risks of this car.

People need to ask themselves if they have a life where they can deal with these hassles should they occur. My breakdown occurred Wed afternoon and I didn’t get my Hertz car until Fri after a few follow-ups with Lucid harassing Hertz. Can you survive if you don’t have immediate access to a replacement car?

For people that are prepared and can work around the issues it is absolutely a magical car. But it is not the right car for everyone.

I agree. I’m optimistic that a lot of these issues can be corrected with software.

Perhaps the second generation Lucids will be more stable and reliable.

 

[Lucken]

The problem with a forum like this is that we see the instances where the car suddenly stops on the road but we don't see all the cars that are working perfectly since day one. It is therefore hard to know if the problems are endemic or rare.

I certainly think Borski’s explanation is one possibility, but let’s be honest, the other possibility is the frequency of these drivetrain issues is the same with non-forum members and they’re simply having their cars taken in for service. I think it’s logical that many who are not familiar with this forum will simply call their service advisor rather than researching forums that discuss these things.

Two very plausible scenarios. Unless we got the actual stats from Lucid, which we obviously won’t, we will never know the actual extent of the issue.

 

[PewPew]

Unless we got the actual stats from Lucid, which we obviously won’t, we will never know the actual extent of the issue.

You can get a good sense of the lower limit. Assuming 100 cars have these issues reported on this forum, given Lucid produced around 7000 cars so far, there's at least a 1.5% problem rate. Realistically, slightly higher since there probably are owners who don't know about this forum.

(I don't know the actual numbers, just giving out an example)

 

[borski]

Mine is a rear drive unit. Good news is it only took Riviera Beach two days rather than two weeks to identify my issue, unlike last time.

I am going to dispute some of the assumptions on here. I don’t think it is fair to make them and feels like a bit of spin to me. In my case the facts are as follows: I was not a first time poster here seeking answers but a member (although quiet) on this forum and I have had two major problems in back to back succession in a car that was delivered in September and has 3k miles on it. I cannot speak to whether I am an aberration or not. But the simple fact is that my car will have been in for service about as many days as in my possession. I love my car. But when my brother in law asked if he should buy one for my sister in law for Christmas, my answer was unfortunately no. A Mom with two young kids and a job cannot deal with the risks of this car.

People need to ask themselves if they have a life where they can deal with these hassles should they occur. My breakdown occurred Wed afternoon and I didn’t get my Hertz car until Fri after a few follow-ups with Lucid harassing Hertz. Can you survive if you don’t have immediate access to a replacement car?

For people that are prepared and can work around the issues it is absolutely a magical car. But it is not the right car for everyone.

Oh, I agree your experience has been unfortunate, and I’m not attempting to spin anything.

The caveat is that most people are happy with their cars, and don’t have these issues.

They also had my Hertz rental literally waiting for me when I got to the service center, so we’ve just had different experiences.

 

[PDiddy]

When people that would not normally join a forum like this encounter a significant issue like brick or turtle mode they often seek out forums to get help and understand if other people are seeing the same issue. I don't have any data to prove it but the forum members are not a representative sample of general owners.

Right. No data, so it's just your opinion, however rationally derived, at this point. You know who does have the data? Lucid. If your opinion, and Bobby's supposition, are correct, Lucid could easily provide the data to support you. They haven't, and until they do, this forum's data are all we have. Everyone loves the car when it's running as intended. No question. The car is spectacular, when it runs the way it should, and the percentage of cars that experience bricking may be small, but I've read of a good ten or twelve posts in this forum from people who have experienced it. When you're contemplating driving your grandchildren to their school or sporting events, or taking your wife on a trip down the coast, that's not an incidence you can live with, particularly when no consistent cause or solution has been identified. If the news is good, and failures are indeed overrepresented on this forum, why the secrecy? If the answer is that 99.5% of vehicles experience no drivetrain problems, say so, Lucid, because at this point, you have a lot of spooked people.

 

[PDiddy]

We see the incidences as mods - most of them *are* first time posters. I also have data from other sources I can’t disclose; the failures are overrepresented on the forums.

Borski--with all due respect, and I do indeed respect you and your viewpoint, while I understand that you can't disclose "data from other sources,"--presumably, Lucid--the company needs to step up and provide some clarity here. A skeptic would say, maybe there's a coorelation between the real or perceived rate of product issues--bricking the most troublesome among them--and Lucid's rapidly declining market cap (-29% in the last month). Closing their ears and mouths to the problem only feeds the beast. Say something, Lucid.

 

[CLTGT]

My I-Pace died in the 2nd week of ownership and had to be towed. Fortunately it was at a parking lot only a couple of miles from my house. As it turned out it was a very minor issue with a wire that wasn't properly grounded.

Jaguar continues to fortify their reputation of "electronically-challenged". We had an older S-type, probably 2008 or so that we purchased from my father-in-law, very low miles, for my 16 year old (about 10 years ago). We drove it home from West Palm Beach to Charlotte. It soon started to just die in the middle of the road. After the third time (with visits to the dealership after each occurrence), it was time to get rid of the car. It also turned out to be a bad intermittent ground.

So, I have had multiple cars die in the middle of the road, both "luxury brands", so it does happen.

The biggest difference, in my situation at least, is that if it happens to Lucid, the service network is nowhere near as robust and does not appear to be headed that way any time soon.

 

[PDiddy]

The problem with a forum like this is that we see the instances where the car suddenly stops on the road but we don't see all the cars that are working perfectly since day one. It is therefore hard to know if the problems are endemic or rare.

Agreed. So we're in the dark, so to speak. This is a great forum, well moderated, informative. Wonderful to read about the thrill of driving the car. As others have posted, with any vehicle comes some risk. It would be good to know just how severe that risk is, and of greater importance, how it's being urgently addressed, so that more folks can feel a sense of confidence when they contemplate getting behind the wheel.

 

[hydbob]

Borski--with all due respect, and I do indeed respect you and your viewpoint, while I understand that you can't disclose "data from other sources,"--presumably, Lucid--the company needs to step up and provide some clarity here. A skeptic would say, maybe there's a coorelation between the real or perceived rate of product issues--bricking the most troublesome among them--and Lucid's rapidly declining market cap (-29% in the last month). Closing their ears and mouths to the problem only feeds the beast. Say something, Lucid.

This is a genuine question, but do car companies publish failure rates for anything? Just curious if there is an industry standard which Lucid is adhering to or not...

 

[CLTGT]

This is a genuine question, but do car companies publish failure rates for anything? Just curious if there is an industry standard which Lucid is adhering to or not...

There are "new car reliability" rankings, but not sure how that data is compiled. There is also the JD Power New car quality rating. I do not think Lucid is part of any of those as of yet. I also think they would not fare well in those ratings, but that is somewhat to be expected from a new manufacturer.

 

[joec]

Right. No data, so it's just your opinion, however rationally derived, at this point. You know who does have the data? Lucid. If your opinion, and Bobby's supposition, are correct, Lucid could easily provide the data to support you. They haven't, and until they do, this forum's data are all we have. Everyone loves the car when it's running as intended. No question. The car is spectacular, when it runs the way it should, and the percentage of cars that experience bricking may be small, but I've read of a good ten or twelve posts in this forum from people who have experienced it. When you're contemplating driving your grandchildren to their school or sporting events, or taking your wife on a trip down the coast, that's not an incidence you can live with, particularly when no consistent cause or solution has been identified. If the news is good, and failures are indeed overrepresented on this forum, why the secrecy? If the answer is that 99.5% of vehicles experience no drivetrain problems, say so, Lucid, because at this point, you have a lot of spooked people.

What company on earth announces the percentage of products that fail?

Can you imagine the field day the press would have with a statement like that?

 

[joec]

I remember years ago, when I was a young pup working at a retail store, I had a discussion with my manager about selling extra extended warranty protection. "Isn't an extended warranty an admission that your products are unreliable?"

I'll never forget what he said. "If it's made on an assembly line, there's a chance it's going to fail. Doesn't matter if it's BMW, Apple, or whoever. There's always some chance you got unlucky and have the 1 in 1,000, 10,000, or whatever that has some sort of defect."

It's literally impossible to have a 0% failure rate. You aim to get as close to zero as possible, but it'll never be zero.

So you gotta ask yourself: "Am I feeling lucky?"

 

[borski]

Borski--with all due respect, and I do indeed respect you and your viewpoint, while I understand that you can't disclose "data from other sources,"--presumably, Lucid--the company needs to step up and provide some clarity here. A skeptic would say, maybe there's a coorelation between the real or perceived rate of product issues--bricking the most troublesome among them--and Lucid's rapidly declining market cap (-29% in the last month). Closing their ears and mouths to the problem only feeds the beast. Say something, Lucid.

I appreciate the kind words.

Here’s one good indicator: the lack of a recall. Lucid has been extremely forthcoming with issuing recalls for things that only affect *single digits* of cars, such as the wiring harness issue, or even the tow hook issue that only affected *some* DEs, which would have been a maximum of 520.

That there has been no recall for rear motors or battery packs is a pretty good indicator that the rate of incidence is not widespread, as Lucid has, in the past, issued recalls quite quickly for even much smaller issues.

 

[PDiddy]

I remember years ago, when I was a young pup working at a retail store, I had a discussion with my manager about selling extra extended warranty protection. "Isn't an extended warranty an admission that your products are unreliable?"

I'll never forget what he said. "If it's made on an assembly line, there's a chance it's going to fail. Doesn't matter if it's BMW, Apple, or whoever. There's always some chance you got unlucky and have the 1 in 1,000, 10,000, or whatever that has some sort of defect."

It's literally impossible to have a 0% failure rate. You aim to get as close to zero as possible, but it'll never be zero.

So you gotta ask yourself: "Am I feeling lucky?"

Good question.

 

[PDiddy]

What company on earth announces the percentage of products that fail?

Can you imagine the field day the press would have with a statement like that?

Fair question. I guess I come from the pharmaceutical industry, where companies are required to present what they refer to as "fair balance" when talking about a drug. In other words, this drug has a serious side effect incidence of X%, and the most serious of them are these. And yes, the press often abuses the information for their own titillating purposes, but people still use the drugs. Consumers make informed choices based on that information. Would you take a drug if you knew there was a 0.01% chance it could kill you? How about a 10% chance? Might just be me, but I believe it is in Lucid's best interests to get out in front of the bricking issue, before someone else--the press, for example--defines the narrative around it. Where anxiety exists, real, reassuring data defeats it. If they have it, my opinion, best to get it out there.

 

[PDiddy]

This is a genuine question, but do car companies publish failure rates for anything? Just curious if there is an industry standard which Lucid is adhering to or not...

Don't know about any industry standard, bydbob. Fair question. In my view, if you have a real or perceived issue, as Lucid seems to have, it's best that you, and not a nefarious other, controls the narrative around it.