It’s All About the Range And Charging Speed

[DJL]

As a country, we have a major educational challenge in front of us. Because of a number of reasons, included the current super elevated gas prices, we are facing a significant shift in the number of people interested in EVs. At first blush, this is a very good thing, however, if we do not start educating the general public on the need to buy EVs based on their anticipated range needs, we are going to see a major shift of opinion against EVs. Most EVs, even with modest range potential, will be great for the day-to-day transportation needs. That is: drive to work or the store or the golf course, drive home and plug in. Repeating this each day works very well. However, given our history with gas fueled vehicles, we just think we can hop into any EV that we use day to day and drive over to grandma’s house in the next state. Well, we can do that but…
The problem is most EVs have limited range and do not charge rapidly. Most do not charge up to 300 miles in 21 minutes the way the Lucid does. Therefore, those people who will take their day-to-day EV on longer trips, will have to charged often and they will have to spend a lot of time waiting for their EV to be charged enough so they can drive on to the next charging station. This scenario will not go over well with a society used to driving for 3 to 4 hours, going 200 to 300 miles and then spending 10 minutes at a gas pump and then continue on.
If you don’t buy into this thought, then just read this article about a reporter who was anxious to drive an EV so she rent it and drove from NO to Chi and back. She rented the wonderful Kia E6 with 310 miles of range and ended up spending more time at charging stations then she slept during the trip. In the end, she longed for her gas guzzler. It is an amusing but sad story and offers a glimmer into what the uneducated, high expectation public will be going through….
To read the article, just click HERE.

 

[Demosthenes]

I also read that story which was more realistic than the other terrible one from I forget which publication (Business Insider maybe?).

 

[Bus Driver]

Those two bimbos who did the road trip didn’t know what they were doing. A lot of the delays were self-inflicted, stemming primarily from not educating themselves first, and not planning in advance.

I don’t have it in me to be sympathetic.

 

[DJL]

Those two bimbos who did the road trip didn’t know what they were doing. A lot of the delays were self-inflicted, stemming primarily from not educating themselves first, and not planning in advance.

I don’t have it in me to be sympathetic.

Oh, Bus Driver, you are so harsh.... I happen to believe most people are pretty dumb when it come to new tech things. They just base things on what they are used to and expect new things to operate the way they are used to having their current things do. Change is difficult for so many people.

 

[Demosthenes]

I think cars are not thought of as ‘learning curve technology’ by most people. When you buy a new phone, computer, TV, or any number of other electronics you automatically assume that you’ll have to spend some time learning its quirks and features. When you buy a new car, you expect that you’ll need to get used to driving it…but you still expect it to basically drive and function like a car. EVs can be extremely different so I understand where these two are coming from. At least they did try to plan and take into account some of the nuances of driving an EV. Unlike that previous ‘reviewer’ that complained that she lost more charge going up a hill than she was able to regen going down the other side…

 

[Slam08]

Eventually people will move away from “gas thinking” where you fill up and the go to empty. Most people with EVs charge at home. Most people drive 50-60 miles per day. Like me.

I get in my I pace in the morning with 80% charge and 190 miles of range. Go to work. Come home. Take the kids to soccer. Come back home. At the end of the day I’m down to 50-60%. I plug it and it goes back up to 80% the next morning. Rinse. Repeat. That is more what daily living with an EV is. Range and efficiency aren’t that big a deal. I’m fine with 190 miles of range.

When I drive 300 miles to St Louis this weekend then the 500 miles range of the Lucid really matters! I only take road trips every few months. And even then I could use the money I save on gas and just rent an ICE car if I wanted to make it easy.

 

[Bus Driver]

I think cars are not thought of as ‘learning curve technology’ by most people. When you buy a new phone, computer, TV, or any number of other electronics you automatically assume that you’ll have to spend some time learning its quirks and features. When you buy a new car, you expect that you’ll need to get used to driving it…but you still expect it to basically drive and function like a car. EVs can be extremely different so I understand where these two are coming from. At least they did try to plan and take into account some of the nuances of driving an EV. Unlike that previous ‘reviewer’ that complained that she lost more charge going up a hill than she was able to regen going down the other side…

I think the biggest failure in their planning is that they didn’t plan (allow) for more time. I should say more specifically, a longer trip time.

Perhaps I came down too hard on these two soi-disant ”journalists”, but it shouldn’t have taken them that long to work out that the trip durations they were anticipating were just not realistic.

Then too, with the free, unlimited supercharging that comes with our Teslas, I’ve been a spoilt Tesla EV owner all these several years. For a few years now, we have been able to plug and charge our Teslas all the way across the country. We road trip in our Tesla without giving it much thought other than allowing for longer trip times.

You’re right though, most people go into EVs and EV road tripping without realising that there is a technology learning curve before them. I sincerely hope their happening upon this learning curve does not discourage them or turn them off EVs prematurely.

 

[digiboxer]

Those two bimbos who did the road trip didn’t know what they were doing. A lot of the delays were self-inflicted, stemming primarily from not educating themselves first, and not planning in advance.

I don’t have it in me to be sympathetic.

BIMBOS?? Is that a moral judgement?

BTW, The article not only made it past the WSJ editors, it was the Saturday non-news lead.

The whole point of the story is they knew just what they were doing and constantly struck out because of hopeless charging infrastructure

 

[HC_79]

There are a lot of factors that people need to consider when road tripping in an EV. You need to plan accordingly or have a very good planner in the car to factor in charging stops etc. so far, Tesla seems to be the only one that has this working well.

People also don’t understand charger hopping where the intention is not to charge the car to 100% but charge the car to get you to the next charger. I’ve seen time and time again people over charging a car at a location when it does them no good because they still have to stop at the next location. It’s also taking up time at a charger where someone else could be using it.

Charging curve and power delivered are also critical for people to understand. Not all chargers are treated equal and have different voltages and amps being delivered into them. This means that if you don’t understand your car is supposed to charge at 200Kw for the first 10 mins before decreasing this is a problem because if you’re only getting 100Kw then it’s likely something is wrong with the charger and you need to stay longer or swap to another one. I was talking to a Taycan owner at a charger once and it was charging at 40Kw. He thought it was normal.

The lower you arrive at the charger the better. Arriving with lower charge level will allow you to get the fastest charge possible initially. You’ll never get 300kw on a Lucid arriving with a SoC of 40%

Honestly, I don’t think people are ready to deal with this. It’s too confusing and every car company is doing charging differently.

 

[Bus Driver]

BIMBOS?? Is that a moral judgement?

BTW, The article not only made it past the WSJ editors, it was the Saturday non-news lead.

The whole point of the story is they knew just what they were doing and constantly struck out because of hopeless charging infrastructure

I don’t know, is it? I don’t see it as being so.

 

[Demosthenes]

There are a lot of factors that people need to consider when road tripping in an EV. You need to plan accordingly or have a very good planner in the car to factor in charging stops etc. so far, Tesla seems to be the only one that has this working well.

People also don’t understand charger hopping where the intention is not to charge the car to 100% but charge the car to get you to the next charger. I’ve seen time and time again people over charging a car at a location when it does them no good because they still have to stop at the next location. It’s also taking up time at a charger where someone else could be using it.

Charging curve and power delivered are also critical for people to understand. Not all chargers are treated equal and have different voltages and amps being delivered into them. This means that if you don’t understand your car is supposed to charge at 200Kw for the first 10 mins before decreasing this is a problem because if you’re only getting 100Kw then it’s likely something is wrong with the charger and you need to stay longer or swap to another one. I was talking to a Taycan owner at a charger once and it was charging at 40Kw. He thought it was normal.

The lower you arrive at the charger the better. Arriving with lower charge level will allow you to get the fastest charge possible initially. You’ll never get 300kw on a Lucid arriving with a SoC of 40%

Honestly, I don’t think people are ready to deal with this. It’s too confusing and every car company is doing charging differently.

100% agree. This type of thinking is a complete paradigm shift compared to ‘getting gas’ or ‘filling up’.

 

[Volund]

There are a lot of factors that people need to consider when road tripping in an EV. You need to plan accordingly or have a very good planner in the car to factor in charging stops etc. so far, Tesla seems to be the only one that has this working well.

People also don’t understand charger hopping where the intention is not to charge the car to 100% but charge the car to get you to the next charger. I’ve seen time and time again people over charging a car at a location when it does them no good because they still have to stop at the next location. It’s also taking up time at a charger where someone else could be using it.

Charging curve and power delivered are also critical for people to understand. Not all chargers are treated equal and have different voltages and amps being delivered into them. This means that if you don’t understand your car is supposed to charge at 200Kw for the first 10 mins before decreasing this is a problem because if you’re only getting 100Kw then it’s likely something is wrong with the charger and you need to stay longer or swap to another one. I was talking to a Taycan owner at a charger once and it was charging at 40Kw. He thought it was normal.

The lower you arrive at the charger the better. Arriving with lower charge level will allow you to get the fastest charge possible initially. You’ll never get 300kw on a Lucid arriving with a SoC of 40%

Honestly, I don’t think people are ready to deal with this. It’s too confusing and every car company is doing charging differently.

To your last point, I'm kind of hesitant to arrive at a charging station too low unless I have a guarantee that it will charge without problems.
Because EA Charging stations are iffy I hear, what do you think?

Also what would the ideal battery % be when approaching a 300kw+ charger like EA?

 

[DBV]

We have so far to go with EV’s to get broader acceptance, it is not even close.

First EV’s have to get to the point where they get close to the stated range when driving it like a gas car. On my BMW‘s I could drive 80 plus on trips on freeways and not affect range that much. On my Refresh Model S it affects range a lot.

Secondly, if one travels a lot like I do, I think the range must increase or at least like in my first point be realistic to get the stated range. I would love to have more 500 plus rated EV’s that don’t cost a fortune to own.

Third, EV networks need to be build out much better and be extremely reliable. I think Tesla is by far the best, but even they have more catching up to do with building out their network and making their chargers faster. Gas people think I am crazy to sit and charge for 20 to 30 mins.

I do think charging is better than I expected, as at least with Tesla, as there are by places to take a bathroom break, grab a snack, lunch or dinner located very close to charging.

 

[Bus Driver]

We have so far to go with EV’s to get broader acceptance, it is not even close.

First EV’s have to get to the point where they get close to the stated range when driving it like a gas car. On my BMW‘s I could drive 80 plus on trips on freeways and not affect range that much. On my Refresh Model S it affects range a lot.

Secondly, if one travels a lot like I do, I think the range must increase or at least like in my first point be realistic to get the stated range. I would love to have more 500 plus rated EV’s that don’t cost a fortune to own.

Third, EV networks need to be build out much better and be extremely reliable. I think Tesla is by far the best, but even they have more catching up to do with building out their network and making their chargers faster. Gas people think I am crazy to sit and charge for 20 to 30 mins.

I do think charging is better than I expected, as at least with Tesla, as there are by places to take a bathroom break, grab a snack, lunch or dinner located very close to charging.

All true. I’m a Tesla owner/Tesla turncoat too. We’re getting rid of our Teslas save one. The one we’re keeping still has free unlimited supercharging.
That is the one thing I will appreciate about the Tesla Model X we will be holding on to.

Having road tripped, and relying on the supercharging network all along the way, I’ve become spoilt. My hope is that I will discover that the EA network will be as reliable, glitch free and user-friendly as the Tesla supercharger network has been.

 

[hydbob]

We have so far to go with EV’s to get broader acceptance, it is not even close.

First EV’s have to get to the point where they get close to the stated range when driving it like a gas car. On my BMW‘s I could drive 80 plus on trips on freeways and not affect range that much. On my Refresh Model S it affects range a lot.

Secondly, if one travels a lot like I do, I think the range must increase or at least like in my first point be realistic to get the stated range. I would love to have more 500 plus rated EV’s that don’t cost a fortune to own.

Third, EV networks need to be build out much better and be extremely reliable. I think Tesla is by far the best, but even they have more catching up to do with building out their network and making their chargers faster. Gas people think I am crazy to sit and charge for 20 to 30 mins.

I do think charging is better than I expected, as at least with Tesla, as there are by places to take a bathroom break, grab a snack, lunch or dinner located very close to charging.

They only think you are crazy because they don't factor in how much lost time they have wasted at a gas station throughout the year while you just plug in at home and walk away =) They are just jealous!

 

[LCIDdreams]

They only think you are crazy because they don't factor in how much lost time they have wasted at a gas station throughout the year while you just plug in at home and walk away =) They are just jealous!

Exactly. Then you also figure in all the time waiting for oil changes, emissions testing (depending on state), brake jobs (still needed for EVs but 1/4-1/2 as often).

I virtually never go more than 2 hours straight behind the wheel. Stretch legs, bathroom break, coffee, snack etc. With kids and/or pets I’d be doing well to even achieve a 2 hour stint.

 

[Sandvinsd]

To your last point, I'm kind of hesitant to arrive at a charging station too low unless I have a guarantee that it will charge without problems.
Because EA Charging stations are iffy I hear, what do you think?

Also what would the ideal battery % be when approaching a 300kw+ charger like EA?

on a trip I would not want to plan for arriving with less than 20% SOC and even higher if fast charging in the area was lacking.

 

[noobzilla]

I assume that most traditional ICE buyers use the mpg more as comparison and generally accept EPA mpg to be slightly lower in real world usage. Most are transitioning from ICE to EV so I'm assuming that mentally (that EPA estimate is reasonably accurate) carries over when looking at EV EPA range. Doing a "ev epa vs actual range" search alone will show a bunch of sites doing 100-0% tests which give results close to the EPA range and confirm the impression EPA range can generally be trusted like with ICE. Discussions about considering battery degradation and keeping around 10% charge when planning for trips aren't as visible. When reality hits to EV range, people who have not done their deep research will be in for a shock.

Charging is a whole different topic. I'm seeing more posts about broken stations either not charging at all or charging very slow... Again, deep digging is required to also realize that not all EV cars can charge at the same rate. We never have to think about gas pump speed for ICE. So this info can fall under things "people dont know that they dont know."

Also there's really no incentive for EV companies to educate consumers about these factors.

 

[DBV]

I assume that most traditional ICE buyers use the mpg more as comparison and generally accept EPA mpg to be slightly lower in real world usage. Most are transitioning from ICE to EV so I'm assuming that mentally (that EPA estimate is reasonably accurate) carries over when looking at EV EPA range. Doing a "ev epa vs actual range" search alone will show a bunch of sites doing 100-0% tests which give results close to the EPA range and confirm the impression EPA range can generally be trusted like with ICE. Discussions about considering battery degradation and keeping around 10% charge when planning for trips aren't as visible. When reality hits to EV range, people who have not done their deep research will be in for a shock.

Charging is a whole different topic. I'm seeing more posts about broken stations either not charging at all or charging very slow... Again, deep digging is required to also realize that not all EV cars can charge at the same rate. We never have to think about gas pump speed for ICE. So this info can fall under things "people dont know that they dont know."

Also there's really no incentive for EV companies to educate consumers about these factors.

I think you are right. Since this is my first EV, I still try to compare by how many miles get until I need a charge/fill-up. So, mostly, I only know how I am doing when I take a longer trip. I still don’t quite understand the kwh everyone always talks about. Think it would help the public, including me to have a kwh for dummies to understand what that means better and how well you are doing.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I assume that most traditional ICE buyers use the mpg more as comparison and generally accept EPA mpg to be slightly lower in real world usage. Most are transitioning from ICE to EV so I'm assuming that mentally (that EPA estimate is reasonably accurate) carries over when looking at EV EPA range. Doing a "ev epa vs actual range" search alone will show a bunch of sites doing 100-0% tests which give results close to the EPA range and confirm the impression EPA range can generally be trusted like with ICE. Discussions about considering battery degradation and keeping around 10% charge when planning for trips aren't as visible. When reality hits to EV range, people who have not done their deep research will be in for a shock.

Charging is a whole different topic. I'm seeing more posts about broken stations either not charging at all or charging very slow... Again, deep digging is required to also realize that not all EV cars can charge at the same rate. We never have to think about gas pump speed for ICE. So this info can fall under things "people dont know that they dont know."

Also there's really no incentive for EV companies to educate consumers about these factors.

I agree if you drive like the EPA expects. But our highways here are mostly 65 mph and if I drive 75 mph I am being passed by more cars than I am passing. The EPA also assumes a more relaxed take off, etc. The EPA standard is not absurd (which the Euro standard is) and probably works well for an economy BEV but for a performance BEV, I think one needs to adjust ones expectations.