Stoplight moment

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My Model S Plaid is certainly a good car - don’t know why people would have the opinion that it isn’t. For me, it scratches a lot of itches and I think it is superb. However, Elon has become a cruel jerk and has aligned with people absolutely counter to his “mission”, so he doesn’t even really have any credibility any more. Twitter is a disaster and he does and says things that would get his a** kicked in person, but he knows he is untouchable just because of his money. I’m sure Tesla fanbois don’t believe the CEO is negatively impacting sales, but there is zero doubt that he is. They have some inherent advantages for now, and when those are gone because their CEO won’t actually focus on the company and the BOD is completely AWOL, a lot of current owners will be gone too.
 
I have no problem with anybody holding any particular political views. I do have a problem with people expressing hatred, and I fully understand why people won't want to buy a product from a company that's represented by such a person. I hate to even call it politics since many of his divisive positions have nothing to do with governing. They have more to do with intolerance and spreading hatred and misinformation.

The Air is unquestionably far better than the Model 3. I had one (VIN 553) from early on, and it was a good car, especially compared to what else was available in 2017. My Model S is from 2014, and there was nothing else close to it at the time. When I first read about the Lucid in 2016, I expected that it would be geared toward luxury car buyers who found the Model S too spartan but wanted to get an EV without losing luxury. There were other future EVs in the work at the time, most notably Faraday Future, with some talk about a resurrection of Fisker, but Lucid was the only one that I found compelling. I didn't expect to get one some day, but I finally got to that point in life where my wife said that buying one because I want one is a good enough reason.

It still doesn't mean that I'm going to get rid of the Model S. I don't really need anything else. I don't think that Elon would care one way or another whether I or somebody else owns it and nobody I meet thinks that I support Elon just because I drive one.

There are probably many CEOs with equally disturbing beliefs who keep their mouth shut.
@Haggy - to each his own. I really liked my Model S P100D+ ‘Raven’ edition, and now my brother is enjoying it.

I’m grateful to Tesla for the world-changing example they set. But I’m sick of Elon’s BS and no longer trust him to make decisions that are in the best interest of his customers or his companies (ex. “X.com”, removing sensors, removing stalks, plummeting resale values, 7 years of unfulfilled FSD bluster, undelivered Roadsters, and that’s not even considering the politics…)

Very, very happy to have moved from my S to my Air, though I don’t judge anyone still driving a Tesla!
 
I think other CEO's and leaders have figured out it's a lot easier to move product and get rich by not being polarizing, so it is odd that Elon let's it all hang out. On the other hand, he gets to have an opinion on the world and it's a shame that a person that holds different views is discounted as a fascist, racist, intolerant and/or incapable of doing or building great things.

Maybe if one where to have the chance to have a beer with Elon or Trump, it's entirely plausible the tweets and sound bites are not representative of the real person. The same is true for a person one does hold in high regard, it might just be a facade? I didn't buy a Lucid because I agree with Mr. Rawlinson politically (I have no idea if I do or do not and frankly I don't care). I agree that the Tesla brand projects a lot to others on the road, but not all of it is because of Elon and his views, rather its the "face" of EV's of some folks simply dislike EV's (and there isn't anything wrong that in world where we profess tolerance).

Despite what the socials have tried to delude us into thinking, the real world is where 99% of people with wildly different views and backgrounds all peacefully coexist and care about the well-being of others.
 
I think other CEO's and leaders have figured out it's a lot easier to move product and get rich by not being polarizing, so it is odd that Elon let's it all hang out. On the other hand, he gets to have an opinion on the world and it's a shame that a person that holds different views is discounted as a fascist, racist, intolerant and/or incapable of doing or building great things.

Maybe if one where to have the chance to have a beer with Elon or Trump, it's entirely plausible the tweets and sound bites are not representative of the real person. The same is true for a person one does hold in high regard, it might just be a facade? I didn't buy a Lucid because I agree with Mr. Rawlinson politically (I have no idea if I do or do not and frankly I don't care). I agree that the Tesla brand projects a lot to others on the road, but not all of it is because of Elon and his views, rather its the "face" of EV's of some folks simply dislike EV's (and there isn't anything wrong that in world where we profess tolerance).

Despite what the socials have tried to delude us into thinking, the real world is where 99% of people with wildly different views and backgrounds all peacefully coexist and care about the well-being of others.
Yes, he gets to have an opinion, and I get to spend my money according to my values. Pretty simple.

Apparently, I’m not alone:
 
How I responded after I sold my Model S and Tesla sent me an exit survey. ;)
 

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Despite what the socials have tried to delude us into thinking, the real world is where 99% of people with wildly different views and backgrounds all peacefully coexist and care about the well-being of others.
I'm not 100% sure that's true, but I'm happier believing that it is and staying as far away from all of that noise as possible.
 
I think other CEO's and leaders have figured out it's a lot easier to move product and get rich by not being polarizing, so it is odd that Elon lets it all hang out. On the other hand, he gets to have an opinion on the world and it's a shame that a person that holds different views is discounted as a fascist, racist, intolerant and/or incapable of doing or building great things.
I don’t think CEOs *have* to be polarizing just because they state their political opinions. I have never been a fan of “cancel culture” or anything close to it.

However, Elon isn’t stating his political opinions. He is explicitly divisive, often on purpose, because it gets him eyeballs. He’s not alone in doing this, but he definitely does it.

If he were just stating political opinions, and not constantly posting conspiracy theories, people would have fewer issues. But he does not think; he tweets.

Maybe if one where to have the chance to have a beer with Elon or Trump, it's entirely plausible the tweets and sound bites are not representative of the real person.
That’s probably true, especially for Trump, who changes his views to suit the person across the table because his biggest fear is being disliked.

But it doesn’t matter, because the tweets and sound bites *do* matter, and they choose to release them. Nobody controls Elon’s account but Elon.

And Elon is the one who retweets nonsense, and then shows up in the replies (which comparatively nobody reads) and says “oops.” But the damage is already done by that point: https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/26...-buttigieg-nevi-funding-ev-chargers-explainer

The same is true for a person one does hold in high regard, it might just be a facade? I didn't buy a Lucid because I agree with Mr. Rawlinson politically (I have no idea if I do or do not and frankly I don't care). I agree that the Tesla brand projects a lot to others on the road, but not all of it is because of Elon and his views, rather its the "face" of EV's of some folks simply dislike EV's (and there isn't anything wrong that in world where we profess tolerance).
Not all of it is. But some of it is.

Most of it is simply that Tesla has no leadership, and as a result is no longer doing anything interesting to me. 🤷‍♂️

I also didn’t buy a lucid because of Peter’s political opinions. I don’t know what they are, nor do I particularly care. Even if he told me what they are, I’d be unlikely to care, because he doesn’t try to shove them down my throat at any given moment.

He built a great car. That’s why I bought a lucid. It’s a great car.

If Tesla made a worthy car (and the CT isn’t it), I’d consider one, even with Elon. But they’re not doing that either. 🤷‍♂️

Despite what the socials have tried to delude us into thinking, the real world is where 99% of people with wildly different views and backgrounds all peacefully coexist and care about the well-being of others.
I completely agree with you; I am, as mentioned before, an “accidental moderate,” and can find common ground with nearly anyone. Politics and philosophy are two of my favorite topics to discuss.

The only way I disagree with you is it isn’t “the socials” deluding us, although that is a valid point. Again: nobody tells Elon what to tweet. Who is deluding us? Reading Elon’s feed is a look inside Elon’s brain, because again: he doesn’t stop to think, he just tweets roughly every thought. I don’t need anyone to tell me how he feels about things or if he reposts idiotic things; I can just read his Twitter.

He’s not always wrong. But he’s wrong more than he’s right, and that takes away from when he *is* right.

If he stuck to building rockets, I’d have far less issue with him, or if he were still building great cars.

But that’s just my opinion.
 
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I don't feel good about Elon, but Tesla still makes good cars. I still own one. I like the Lucid better though. When I got the Lucid, I wasn't thinking about getting a Tesla. I can't say how much of a factor Elon was, but he certainly didn't help matters. After test driving the Air, stepping back into the Model S that I drove to the showroom felt like a step down. But I also wonder if people should try to punish Elon by punishing themselves. It will take years before Lucid has a full lineup, and for now, some of Tesla's models are a good choice for many people. I care more about the other 87% or so of stockholders, as well as tens of thousands of employees, than I do about Elon. If he loses a few billion dollars, it won't affect his lifestyle.

In the long run, I hope that Lucid ends up with a competitive lineup that beats Tesla across the board, but for now, they are ahead in many ways but behind in some. There are still lots of things that Tesla's software does that are missing in the Lucid, as well as some poor choices they made that Lucid got right. Lucid's finally at the point with ADAS that it does what I actually care about most day to day, but I wouldn't mind seeing more.
We decided never to give another cent to any Elon Musk company......don't care if it costs us a lot....that is how much we hate him.
 
I think other CEO's and leaders have figured out it's a lot easier to move product and get rich by not being polarizing, so it is odd that Elon let's it all hang out. On the other hand, he gets to have an opinion on the world and it's a shame that a person that holds different views is discounted as a fascist, racist, intolerant and/or incapable of doing or building great things.

Maybe if one where to have the chance to have a beer with Elon or Trump, it's entirely plausible the tweets and sound bites are not representative of the real person. The same is true for a person one does hold in high regard, it might just be a facade? I didn't buy a Lucid because I agree with Mr. Rawlinson politically (I have no idea if I do or do not and frankly I don't care). I agree that the Tesla brand projects a lot to others on the road, but not all of it is because of Elon and his views, rather its the "face" of EV's of some folks simply dislike EV's (and there isn't anything wrong that in world where we profess tolerance).

Despite what the socials have tried to delude us into thinking, the real world is where 99% of people with wildly different views and backgrounds all peacefully coexist and care about the well-being of others.
But you don't lie, spread hate and have no empathy for fellow humans just because you are the richest person in the world with millions of fanboys....look at the people he let back on twitter, the people he associates with, the total disregard for the State of CA without which his companies would not exist...the derugulation that he wants, risking COVID in his employees by not closing his factory, attacking his competitors on twitter, spreading disinformation for personal gain, attacking innocent individual federal employees so his fanboys let loose on them with hate....and most of it just pure lies.....

He has billions, he doesnt care about anyone else....just himself....everyone else can go to hell....hey but I'm trying get everyone to Mars!....what a load of ^%$#

I've come across jerks in my life, but never such a powerful jerk who is dangerous to society...
 
But you don't lie, spread hate and have no empathy for fellow humans just because you are the richest person in the world with millions of fanboys....look at the people he let back on twitter, the people he associates with, the total disregard for the State of CA without which his companies would not exist...the derugulation that he wants, risking COVID in his employees by not closing his factory, attacking his competitors on twitter, spreading disinformation for personal gain, attacking innocent individual federal employees so his fanboys let loose on them with hate....and most of it just pure lies.....

He has billions, he doesnt care about anyone else....just himself....everyone else can go to hell....hey but I'm trying get everyone to Mars!....what a load of ^%$#

I've come across jerks in my life, but never such a powerful jerk who is dangerous to society...
So I’m guessing dinner with Elon is out? 🤣
 
So I’m guessing dinner with Elon is out? 🤣
I would be down for dinner with pretty much anybody.

The world could solve a hell of a lot more problems if people just broke bread together more often.
 
What I meant was, when we stop talking with those with which we disagree, things begin to break down. We start dividing ourselves into groups / factions…that is never good. I was attempting (obviously unsuccessfully), to build on your comment about having dinner with anyone. I too feel that way.

That said, I am not blindly optimistic about the outcome of “dinners with anyone,” BUT I always approach them with an open mind and a view to build bridges rather than further widening gaps.
 
Having driven Teslas for nearly 8 years before defecting to Lucid I’m well aware of Mr Musk’s showboating style and unfulfilled promises on FSD. That being said I can still appreciate what he has created with Tesla, Space X, Starlink, and the other companies pushing innovations and out of the box thinking. Twitter is more controversial but I’m amazed at the level of vitriol that this engenders. The guy bought the platform to insure a level of free speech where one side was not controlled and censored. Yes there are crazies and conspiracy theorists on there but with free speech you get that. Was it Hamilton that said “ I may not agree with what you said but I will defend to the death your right to say it” that’s what is lost in this conversation and in my opinion what makes this country great( among other things)The ability to exchange ideas and views without censorship or cancellation is foundational to getting things accomplished here and I fear younger generations do not understand or appreciate it. If you look at the arc of human history it is always the rebels and outsiders that push mankind to innovate and improve even as it costs themselves in prestige, monetarily and in earlier times freedom or even life itself. So I may not like some of Musks positions and opinions but I’m glad for his existence and I think when all is said and written he will be a seminal figure in human history. My two cents
 
What I meant was, when we stop talking with those with which we disagree, things begin to break down. We start dividing ourselves into groups / factions…that is never good. I was attempting (obviously unsuccessfully), to build on your comment about having dinner with anyone. I too feel that way.

That said, I am not blindly optimistic about the outcome of “dinners with anyone,” BUT I always approach them with an open mind and a view to build bridges rather than further widening gaps.
Agreed on all counts.

The guy bought the platform to insure a level of free speech where one side was not controlled and censored.
That is not why Musk bought Twitter. That is the ex post facto reasoning he came up with to justify it. Elon bought Twitter both Twitter because he knew it was a megaphone. If you look back at the early days of his dealings with Twitter, it had nothing at all to do with “free speech.”

Yes there are crazies and conspiracy theorists on there but with free speech you get that.
Sure. And with *this* version of free speech anyone else gets to walk away.

The problem is what Musk thinks is “free speech” is free in name only. There are far more trolls and right wing nuts on X than there are in reality, because so many of them are bots. Moreover, Elon and his ilk constantly pump up and advertise those posts, including (but not limited to) conspiracy theorists, and that *is* harmful.

Posts with links don’t get boosted as much, as one simple example. By definition, that is already not “free speech” by the definition you’re using.

If there is an algorithm (and there is), then the speech on Twitter isn’t “free,” by his very own definition. To state otherwise would be an absurdity, as “free speech” as defined by Elon would imply that all posts by any human would have equal merit and chance to be seen by other humans. That would be insanely useless, and so speech on Twitter isn’t “free,” because Twitter has to make money.

Reminder that the actual definition of free speech, as defined in the quite unique first amendment to the US constitution, ensures that the *government* cannot take away your right to say anything you want, with a few very specific caveats (don’t yell “fire” in a crowded theatre, etc.). Importantly, those caveats are defined in court cases, not in the constitution.

This forum, Twitter, Facebook… those are not the government.

And Twitter has never been about free speech; it has simply swapped from being a mouthpiece for the left to being a mouthpiece for the right. If you believe Twitter today is about “free speech,” I have many bridges to sell you.
 
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Some posts would be more appropriate for BLUESKY platform.
 
Was it Hamilton that said “ I may not agree with what you said but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
Often misattributed to Voltaire, but likely actually written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall, in describing Voltaire’s mindset.

But people love to attribute it to “any random founding father” because it fits their narrative. None actually said it. (I am not blaming you; you’re not alone in the misattribution)

that’s what is lost in this conversation and in my opinion what makes this country great( among other things)The ability to exchange ideas and views without censorship or cancellation is foundational to getting things accomplished here and I fear younger generations do not understand or appreciate it.
I couldn’t agree more.

If you look at the arc of human history it is always the rebels and outsiders that push mankind to innovate and improve even as it costs themselves in prestige, monetarily and in earlier times freedom or even life itself. So I may not like some of Musks positions and opinions but I’m glad for his existence and I think when all is said and written he will be a seminal figure in human history.
I’m amused that you think Elon’s rhetoric has cost him “prestige, monetarily, and … freedoms or even life itself.” In reality, he has gained immense prestige (he’s “first buddy” now), wealth (richer than ever before), and he’s still alive and plenty free.

He has not sacrificed anything for a very long time. But he loves to talk about how much he’s sacrificing, because it aggrandizes him.

I agree he will be a seminal figure in history, but for his entrepreneurship, space-building, EV-industry-building, etc. History will look at him kindly for that.

Politically? I suspect history will be far less kind.
 
Elon is wrecking his incredible legacy. Free speech isn’t the same as promoting untrue theories, misinformation, and flat out lies - and making it to where no one can avoid his tweets in their feed, even if they aren’t following him. He has made a deal with the devil and might be untouchable - until he isn’t. He is choosing to abandon “the mission” and become some Scrooge McDuck caricature, and we have the perfect system with Trump that lets him essentially take over because of his wealth. This will not end well.
 
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