Vampire Drain Analysis

[Tesla2.0]

I see people here often complain about vampire drain for Lucid Air being unforgivable. So I did a metric and park both Lucid Air and Rivian R1S LE side by side in the same garage. Temperature factor was ruled out of equation, here are the result after I came back from my cruise trip 17 days later.

On the day of trip:

Lucid was at 90% SOC, Rivian was at 81% SOC. I had a mini trip where I must charge Air to higher SOC and I didnot get chance to drain down from 90% before my cruise trip.

The following is what happened after I returned in 17 days. Both Lucid and Rivian paged me OTA Update notification, I happened to check both mobile app more frequently than usual as result of new OTA update notification.

Lucid AGT went from 90% to 83% in 17 days with multiple remote wake up. (1 - (83/90) = 7.8% relative energy loss.

Rivian R1S LE went from 81% to 55% in 17 days with fewer multiple remote wake up. (1 - 55/83) = 32.1% relative energy loss.

Granted Rivian has GearGuard turned on for motion sensor recording, but there wasn’t any triggered event in 17 days having no video clip recorded.

CONCLUSION:
Losing charge when not even driving is normal, it’s just like your tablet and smart phone even if you put in airplane mode. So don’t freak out for energy leak.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I see people here often complain about vampire drain for Lucid Air being unforgivable. So I did a metric and park both Lucid Air and Rivian R1S LE side by side in the same garage. Temperature factor was ruled out of equation, here are the result after I came back from my cruise trip 17 days later.

On the day of trip:View attachment 10124View attachment 10125

Lucid was at 90% SOC, Rivian was at 81% SOC. I had a mini trip where I must charge Air to higher SOC and I didnot get chance to drain down from 90% before my cruise trip.

The following is what happened after I returned in 17 days. Both Lucid and Rivian paged me OTA Update notification, I happened to check both mobile app more frequently than usual as result of new OTA update notification.

View attachment 10123View attachment 10122

Lucid AGT went from 90% to 83% in 17 days with multiple remote wake up. (1 - (83/90) = 7.8% relative energy loss.

Rivian R1S LE went from 81% to 55% in 17 days with fewer multiple remote wake up. (1 - 55/83) = 32.1% relative energy loss.

Granted Rivian has GearGuard turned on for motion sensor recording, but there wasn’t any triggered event in 17 days having no video clip recorded.

CONCLUSION:
Losing charge when not even driving is normal, it’s just like your tablet and smart phone even if you put in airplane mode. So don’t freak out for energy leak.

Great report. It is not as good a scientific study as yours but if I park my car in the garage and unplug it at night since it is then fully charged (80%) in the morning when I get in it reads 79% SOC. If I leave it plugged in, in the morning it reads 80% SOC.

Some of it is likely vampire drain and some of it is likely just batteries sitting losing some charge as they sit. Nice that the Lucid wiped out the Rivian on this test.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

I see people here often complain about vampire drain for Lucid Air being unforgivable. So I did a metric and park both Lucid Air and Rivian R1S LE side by side in the same garage. Temperature factor was ruled out of equation, here are the result after I came back from my cruise trip 17 days later.

On the day of trip:View attachment 10124View attachment 10125

Lucid was at 90% SOC, Rivian was at 81% SOC. I had a mini trip where I must charge Air to higher SOC and I didnot get chance to drain down from 90% before my cruise trip.

The following is what happened after I returned in 17 days. Both Lucid and Rivian paged me OTA Update notification, I happened to check both mobile app more frequently than usual as result of new OTA update notification.

View attachment 10123View attachment 10122

Lucid AGT went from 90% to 83% in 17 days with multiple remote wake up. (1 - (83/90) = 7.8% relative energy loss.

Rivian R1S LE went from 81% to 55% in 17 days with fewer multiple remote wake up. (1 - 55/83) = 32.1% relative energy loss.

Granted Rivian has GearGuard turned on for motion sensor recording, but there wasn’t any triggered event in 17 days having no video clip recorded.

CONCLUSION:
Losing charge when not even driving is normal, it’s just like your tablet and smart phone even if you put in airplane mode. So don’t freak out for energy leak.

Would have been interesting to see what the R1S drain would have been without GearGuard on. Wasn't totally apples to apples comparison as most people wouldn't have GearGuard on while parked at home in a garage. Tesla lets you disable Sentry at geolocations (home and work) automatically. Hopefully Rivian and Lucid (when they eventually enable this feature) will do the same.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Some of it is likely vampire drain and some of it is likely just batteries sitting losing some charge as they sit. Nice that the Lucid wiped out the Rivian on this test.

It’s unclear to me why Rivian dropped so much. I assumed it either has more apps running and it recently have big update probably got a lot of info uploaded while I was away. Or simply Rivian Battery Management System just doesn’t as efficient as Lucid.

Would have been interesting to see what the R1S drain would have been without GearGuard on. Wasn't totally apples to apples comparison as most people wouldn't have GearGuard on while parked at home in a garage. Tesla lets you disable Sentry at geolocations (home and work) automatically. Hopefully Rivian and Lucid (when they eventually enable this feature) will do the same.

After the last update, I see one can define location of “home” to disable Gear Guard at home. Maybe it’s new? I don’t know. I know certain algorithm has it detect 4 feet parameter motion of vehicle. Their recent update eliminated snow, rain or wind factor causing stationary sign, mailbox to sway and trigger as motion. A Rivian IT guy claimed unofficially on Reddit that they are working on built-in dash-cam video app that can uploaded saved video clips to USB-C port like Gear Guard caught motion video clips. I’m glad, Lucid has also just recently activated USB-C data port, so security surveillance might be on Lucid’s to-do-list items plate.

I will do another metric on my next trip with Gear Guard off as test.

 

[MoniputerLM]

I see people here often complain about vampire drain for Lucid Air being unforgivable. So I did a metric and park both Lucid Air and Rivian R1S LE side by side in the same garage. Temperature factor was ruled out of equation, here are the result after I came back from my cruise trip 17 days later.

On the day of trip:View attachment 10124View attachment 10125

Lucid was at 90% SOC, Rivian was at 81% SOC. I had a mini trip where I must charge Air to higher SOC and I didnot get chance to drain down from 90% before my cruise trip.

The following is what happened after I returned in 17 days. Both Lucid and Rivian paged me OTA Update notification, I happened to check both mobile app more frequently than usual as result of new OTA update notification.

View attachment 10123View attachment 10122

Lucid AGT went from 90% to 83% in 17 days with multiple remote wake up. (1 - (83/90) = 7.8% relative energy loss.

Rivian R1S LE went from 81% to 55% in 17 days with fewer multiple remote wake up. (1 - 55/83) = 32.1% relative energy loss.

Granted Rivian has GearGuard turned on for motion sensor recording, but there wasn’t any triggered event in 17 days having no video clip recorded.

CONCLUSION:
Losing charge when not even driving is normal, it’s just like your tablet and smart phone even if you put in airplane mode. So don’t freak out for energy leak.

The Mercedes EQS loses almost nothing while parked but does have a "start" button.

 

[Tesla2.0]

The Mercedes EQS loses almost nothing while parked but does have a "start" button.

“Start” button, mmm…

That sounds so 20th century.

 

[Tesla2.0]

It’s unclear to me why Rivian dropped so much. I assumed it either has more apps running and it recently have big update probably got a lot of info uploaded while I was away. Or simply Rivian Battery Management System just doesn’t as efficient as Lucid.

After the last update, I see one can define location of “home” to disable Gear Guard at home. Maybe it’s new? I don’t know. I know certain algorithm has it detect 4 feet parameter motion of vehicle. Their recent update eliminated snow, rain or wind factor causing stationary sign, mailbox to sway and trigger as motion. A Rivian IT guy claimed unofficially on Reddit that they are working on built-in dash-cam video app that can uploaded saved video clips to USB-C port like Gear Guard caught motion video clips. I’m glad, Lucid has also just recently activated USB-C data port, so security surveillance might be on Lucid’s to-do-list items plate.

I will do another metric on my next trip with Gear Guard off as test.

So many grammatical errors. I just love to drive and text.

 

[MoniputerLM]

“Start” button, mmm…

That sounds so 20th century.

I like it. The car stays off until I want it to wake up.

 

[EVCar]

I like it. The car stays off until I want it to wake up.

I like it, too.
What's the likelihood of Lucid going this route and then retrofit our cars?
< 0% chance, I'm afraid.
I'd be more than happy to pay Lucid to put one in if that's an option.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Same garage, only Rivian was parked closer to window but window was covered by wooden blinds and valance. Would that make -27% and -7% SOC difference because of location parked? The weather has been in 45F ~ 85F range.

Or Rivian’s larger battery 135kWh and larger cabin needed to drain more for temperature regulation than Lucid Air 112kWh?

Or is it because Lucid is using Panasonic 4680 Lithium batteries and 900 volt architecture has better performance at heat loss than Rivian’s Samsung 2170 batteries and 400 volt architecture with more Lithium-Iron-Phosphate element and added more Cobalt for lesser cost?

So many elements to think about into this rabbit hole hypothesis.

 

[Lucken]

CONCLUSION:
Losing charge when not even driving is normal, it’s just like your tablet and smart phone even if you put in airplane mode. So don’t freak out for energy leak.

That may be true and yes, the Lucid does better than the Rivian (which has horrific phantom drain), but the fact remains that some other EVs do lose less than the Lucid.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Panasonic Energy to supply batteries to Lucid Air, Gravity and build in US

Lucid Group and Panasonic Energy announced they have entered into multi-year agreements that entail the latter supplying lithium-ion batteries to...

electrek.co

It seems Lucid’s supply chain upstream is limited and exclusive. The company aims to have premium highest quality and battery longevity, yet renders production challenges.

 

[Steveinarizona]

The Mercedes EQS loses almost nothing while parked but does have a "start" button.

mine also.

 

[joec]

At what point do we admit the Mercedes has a start button because the ICE equivalent car it was based on has a Start button?

If legacy auto makers ever get around to actually designing an EV from the ground up, a Start button will not enter the conversation.

Engines need to be turned on. Electric motors do not.

 

[Coltonw011]

Panasonic Energy to supply batteries to Lucid Air, Gravity and build in US

Lucid Group and Panasonic Energy announced they have entered into multi-year agreements that entail the latter supplying lithium-ion batteries to...

electrek.co

It seems Lucid’s supply chain upstream is limited and exclusive. The company aims to have premium highest quality and battery longevity, yet renders production challenges.

Lucid is using 2170 cells right now also.

 

[MoniputerLM]

I like it, too.
What's the likelihood of Lucid going this route and then retrofit our cars?
< 0% chance, I'm afraid.
I'd be more than happy to pay Lucid to put one in if that's an option.

So easy to have a Start button and an option to stay on full time.

 

[Shuasha]

Lucid has a start button, it just looks like a brake pedal.

 

[EVCar]

It's hard to teach an old dog new trick.
What can I say?
But kidding aside, there are a few convenient things associated with an old-fashioned Start button.
For example, you can sit in the car, while star gazing, or at drive-in theater, or whatever, and don't have to worry about blinding people in the vicinity with the car's lights, or setting off the alarm when opening the doors.
The vampire drain is another.
With time, hopefully the software can progress to the point that the Start button is truly obsolete.
For me, I don't think the car is quite there yet.

 

[Dog poop]

Heading out on a trip for 6 days. Here is my vampire.
Day 0

Day 6

4kWh is not a lot at all. I bet in a month or two from now when it warms up a little I’ll lose 3 maybe 2.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Can we compile a list of vampire drain best practices preventative measures?

Perhaps:

1. Turn off home Wi Fi connection overnight.
2. Turn off Bluetooth overnight.
3. Store key fobs away from vehicle.
4. Turn off phone app.

Or maybe these are counter-productive and best to just live with it?