Wunderbox + Charger install + Chargers in general

[Sandvinsd]

If the supplied cable can charge at 40 amps, is a wall charger worth it?

I like to keep the mobile up unit in the car. Buying a smart one is useful to make use of TOU cheap electricity since the Lucid cannot set the time and to have a spare.

 

[AIR.LUCID]

I like to keep the mobile up unit in the car. Buying a smart one is useful to make use of TOU cheap electricity since the Lucid cannot set the time and to have a spare.

Is the Air's ability to set the charge time being considered?

 

[Sandvinsd]

Is the Air's ability to set the charge time being considered?

I would think so, especially for a car in this price range.

 

[borski]

Is the Air's ability to set the charge time being considered?

Yes but it doesn’t exist yet.

 

[borski]

If the supplied cable can charge at 40 amps, is a wall charger worth it?

I answered the pros and cons in my post above. Whether it’s worth it is up to you.

For me, with TOU electricity rates, that alone makes it worth it. But keeping the cable in the trunk is also a benefit. The hardwired speed increase at 48A (or 80A, with the coming Lucid Wallbox) is also a benefit. So is the eventual V2H, though less important for me as I have Powerwalls.

The con is pretty much exclusively cost.

 

[Drendino]

Waking up with a “full tank” every morning is so convenient tho!

I’m sure I’m doing it wrong, but I feel the same. Plus, we are in fire season and you never know when you are going to need to leave in a hurry.

 

[Snafu]

The standing joke with friends is that my garage looks like it's set up to power the entire town. I will not be buying the Lucid bi-directional charger because I already have a whole-house generator which runs on propane with an automatic transfer switch (will run pared-down house electric usage for well over a week). Since I have solar and do not care to mess with battery storage as yet, my solar shuts down automatically if/when there is an electricity outage. Prior to this, I had always used the car charging cables for my Nissan Leaf+ and Tesla (which both allowed me to schedule charging times). Since I hope this will be my long-term EV, I finally decided to install a wall charger to set charging times or use the app to do remote ad hoc charging .

Here's the breakdown of my setup:

1. 200 amp house breaker connected to a transfer switch to the generator, solar, and a 240v NEMA 14-50 outlet (cannot support TOU charging);
2. 100 amp subpanel for a NEMA 14-50 outlet connected to a separate/second outdoor meter for TOU/off-peak EV charging (as well as a 110v outlet);
3. I ended up with the ChargePoint Home Flex charger after reading some reviews by folks in the forum and opted to just have it plug into my TOU NEMA 14-50 outlet instead of the hassle and expense of another electrician visit to hardwire it (he's already put two of his kids through college with the work he's done on my house over the years). It took about a half hour to install - most of that spent on the "measure twice, drill once" theory. It's working perfectly and provides kw and estimated cost based on Electric COOP rates.
4. I can now keep the mobile charger (cable) in the car for trips and emergencies and/or just plug that into the house/solar NEMA 14-50 outlet for "free" charging (mounted on the next stud over to the left of the ChargePoint outlet).
5. Separate indoor meter for solar and an emergency solar shutdown switch.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

what is "that" ? Oh, you mean that bag of wires in the trunk? OK, got it.


OK... we want the amazon wall charger to have a permanent cable to charge with. Got it.

So for quick and dirty charging, using Lucid supplied cables, open the garage door to the laundry room and plug right into that 240v, with wires out the open door. Got it: I need to buy a wall charger for it's hard-wire safety, and to keep the bugs out of the laundry room.

Once the electrician comes next week, I can plug the bag-in-the-trunk Lucid wires into the NEMA plug at my new garage sub-panel, correct?

Then when I get the aftermarket wall charger does that go into the NEMA plug?, or should this be hard wired?
Then if Lucid had a wall charger it would be hard-wired to the main panel with upgraded fuse. No plugs.

Wow. That took me too long to sort out. OK so the imaginary Lucid wall charger now costs me twice as much, or maybe I can ebay the extra wall charger I have to buy...I forgot I have to call the electrician again too...wow, I get it now. Thanks guys. Whew. What a week.

Post purchase expenses:
Saran Wrap $10000
Electrician $ 6500
floor mats
wall charger
another wall charger
another electrician visit

what am i missing ?

What do you call the Lucid bi-directional wall charger? A rumor without a name.

I'm calling the fictional Lucid wall charger "Betty"

"Yea we hooked-up. I pinned Betty to the garage wall and plugged in. Got a bit of charge out of it but she ended up draining me.
She has a wonderbox you see: goes both ways."


Also I looked up EVSE. It's at 2 cents. I already did my termites.

Somebody can verify but the Lucid EVSE I think also will charge at 80 amps instead of 50 amps. I had my electrician run 100amp wire to a RV hook-up to facilitate the install of the Lucid EVSE. I'm sure we are years maybe decades away from home DCFC

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I answered the pros and cons in my post above. Whether it’s worth it is up to you.

For me, with TOU electricity rates, that alone makes it worth it. But keeping the cable in the trunk is also a benefit. The hardwired speed increase at 48A (or 80A, with the coming Lucid Wallbox) is also a benefit. So is the eventual V2H, though less important for me as I have Powerwalls.

The con is pretty much exclusively cost.

We used to have a generator at our old house. We plan to do a whole house battery system similar to Powerwall for essentials and use the Air for cooking and entertainment.

 

[borski]

Somebody can verify but the Lucid EVSE I think also will charge at 80 amps instead of 50 amps. I had my electrician run 100amp wire to a RV hook-up to facilitate the install of the Lucid EVSE. I'm sure we are years maybe decades away from home DCFC

That’s correct. You actually don’t *want* home DCFC because it will burn the battery out faster.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

That’s correct. You actually don’t *want* home DCFC because it will burn the battery out faster.

Oh, I was being the electrical engineer I'm not I'm my mind, LOL. Since the J1772 is built into the CCS can't the connector be designed to do both? Heading out of here going north (to Chicago) in an emergency it's an hour drive to the first DCFC.

Glad I have a GT! Only need 60 miles of range to make it at 70mph.

 

[DeaneG]

.... I'm sure we are years maybe decades away from home DCFC

DC-CCS home "fast" charging is actually beginning to be available, but currently only at 15-25kW.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

The standing joke with friends is that my garage looks like it's set up to power the entire town.

This is an excellent post. I have this same dream. Sisters live in Eppin'. It's around 350 mi .
waited a decade for awd e-car with Lucid range;
now i have a noble quest

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

DC-CCS home "fast" charging is actually beginning to be available, but currently only at 15-25kW.

DC-CCS home "fast" charging is actually beginning to be available, but currently only at 15-25kW.

So before losses Lucid EVSE should be 19kW? I guess that's 10kW more than what car displays at home now.

 

[EthanTrull]

I have a Clipper Creek 100amp charger. My Air consistently charges at 17-18 Kw. Theoretically it could charge at 19.2 Kw, but I have not seen that in real life. In the same garage I have an 80 amp Clipper Creek charger. That one charges my Air at 14 Kw. I have not yet tried using my wife's Tesla charger with an adapter, but that one is on a 60 amp circuit soi I would expect it to be quite a bit slower.

 

[DeaneG]

So before losses Lucid EVSE should be 19kW? I guess that's 10kW more than what car displays at home now.

The car can handle up to 19kW AC if the charging station can deliver it. Actual charging speed is limited by the minimum of either the car's 19kW capacity or by the charging stations' capacity. If your home charging station is set up properly, take a look at the circuit breaker that it is powered from. Multiply the amperage number printed on it by 0.8 x 240 (=192) to get the maximum charging power of your setup in watts. For example, if your circuit breaker is 50 amps, then your expected maximum charging rate would be 192*50 = 9600W or 9.6kW.

Lucid's EVSE can be connected to a 100amp circuit breaker, providing up to 19.6kW. I'll be wiring mine to an existing 60-amp circuit, replacing a Tesla charging station, providing a maximum of 11.5kW.

 

[emoylv]

All of this is answered in the forum FAQ, but:

1) The Lucid “charger” is the Wunderbox charger that is built into the car. However, you’ll hear “charger” overused to mean EVSE because EVSE is so much more annoying to say.

2) EVSE is “Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment.” It is the generic term for the device that regulates the charging, typically third party. For example, Electrify America has lots of EVSEs all around the country. You may hear them called “charging stations”; same idea. There are also home EVSEs you can install, which are the ones like Wallbox pulsar plus, JuiceBox, Chargepoint, etc. *Technically*, the cable the Lucid comes with is also an EVSE, just a relatively dumb one.

3) the Lucid comes with a charging cable (or basic EVSE) in the trunk. It can be used to plug into any NEMA 14-50 outlet (where it will charge at 40 amps) or a 110v outlet (where it will trickle charge *extremely* slowly).

4) the reason to install a home EVSE is two-fold: a) if you hardwire it, it can charge at 48A on a 60A circuit (which is faster than the 40A you’d get on a 50A circuit), and b) you can schedule charging and control it remotely. If you have “time of use” pricing from your utility, the latter point is important so you don’t have to manage plugging in or unplugging manually. You do not *have* to hardwire a third party EVSE and can just plug it into a 14-50. If you do, you don’t get the extra speed but still get the charging automation.

5) if you install an EVSE, you can leave the charging cable or mobile EVSE in the trunk and use it for road trips or emergencies.

6) the Lucid Wallbox EVSE is not out yet, but we are expecting it this month or next month. It will be able to support 80A charging on a 100A circuit (assuming your wiring supports it), and will eventually support V2H (or vehicle 2 home) backup, but not at launch.

7) the charging cable the Lucid is supplied with will work just fine if you have a 14-50 and is all you need; however, be aware that most residential 14-50 outlets are not made for constant plugging and unplugging and are likely to wear out over time. You can install an industrial 14-50 outlet, but those are a bit more expensive.

That help?

During my test drive, I asked the Lucid rep if they were working on software that can set the time for charging; he said yes. That said, I'm still going to install an EVSE. I agree with you 100% on Item 7. Plugging a 240v cable constantly would be worrisome for me. My big decision is whether to hardwire or install a 14-50 receptacle. Either way, I'm going with 40A.

 

[EthanTrull]

I'm just reporting my results. I said that it is a 100 amp charger. Yes, it is on a 100 amp circuit (I brought an additional 200 amps to my house to support all of these chargers and have some headroom left over). When I charge the car on the 100 amp charger, it quickly ramps up to 17, and then sometimes fluctuates to 18. I have not gone out to the garage at the end of the cycle to see how it is doing -- I assume it drops off. I have never seen it go higher or lower on that charger. I think it goes from empty to full in less than 6 hours. I have not timed it.

On my 80 amp charger (yes, it is on an 80 amp breaker), it charges at 14Kw.

I have no idea why the car does not charge at least at 19.2kw on the 100 amp charger and it is not a big deal. But that is my real world outcome. Still, if anyone gets their car to charge at 19Kw, I would like to hear how you did it.

 

[Sandvinsd]

I would say that the issue is likely that the outlet is not delivering a full 240 volts, but rather 220. That would explain only 17-18 kw instead of 19.2.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I have a Clipper Creek 100amp charger. My Air consistently charges at 17-18 Kw. Theoretically it could charge at 19.2 Kw, but I have not seen that in real life. In the same garage I have an 80 amp Clipper Creek charger. That one charges my Air at 14 Kw. I have not yet tried using my wife's Tesla charger with an adapter, but that one is on a 60 amp circuit soi I would expect it to be quite a bit slower.

Does your wife know that you stuck her with the slowest charger? Is there community property in your jurisdiction?