Wunderbox + Charger install + Chargers in general

[dawktah LucidGT]

Wait. I came here for clarity (gave up on Lucid site). You guys are making it worse.

WHY DO YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT CHARGERS????

I thought you could plug your lucid directly into your 240v drier plug, I thought the charger was built into the car?

I thought the only reason to get a Lucid charger is to bi-direction ???

You are correct, the charger that comes with the car plugs into the 240v dryer plug. That's what I am using at home right now. You don't need to go beyond that if you don't want to. "Technically" that's supposed to stay in your car and you are to use an EVSE at home.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Thanks to LuciPearl for a great post.

My electrician is here and we together gave up on the Lucid website for info.

I see "Lucid Charger" all over amazon, but Lucid does not have a charger, just a plastic blob.
Why do we need an amazon charger if we don't need a charger at all ???? When you guys post, start with
"I KNOW LUCID HAS A BUILT-IN CHARGER BUT I GOT ONE ANYWAY."

OK, here's what my electrician found:

100 amp copper to garage with slack loop for future installs
move 2 circuits to existing sub panel...to re-distribute load (I have 200amp main panel).
permits / inspections
upgrade grounding system ( 2 more grounding rods, hot and cold water pipes
remove and replace 5 outlets with GFI (basement)
upgrade surge protection
~ $6500

Appointment next week, two guys, about half a day.

There are safety upgrades in the work order that you may not need.
I'm using Wes Carver Electric, have used them in the past. Top Tier.
My tech is super nice super pro. He waited 9 months for his Tesla, and is doing 3 EV installs /week.
He had not heard of Lucid.



Yesterday was a shock too. I was quoted $10,000 to Saran Wrap the car.

 

[pam4_AGT]

You are correct, the charger that comes with the car plugs into the 240v dryer plug

There are many different types of 240V plugs. The dryer typically uses NEMA 14-30 and the cable that comes with the car can only plug into NEMA 14-50. So which one do you have ?

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

There are many different types of 240V plugs. The dryer typically uses NEMA 14-30 and the cable that comes with the car can only plug into NEMA 14-50. So which one do you have ?

View attachment 4681

14-50

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

"Technically" that's supposed to stay in your car and you are to use an EVSE at home.

what is "that" ? Oh, you mean that bag of wires in the trunk? OK, got it.


OK... we want the amazon wall charger to have a permanent cable to charge with. Got it.

So for quick and dirty charging, using Lucid supplied cables, open the garage door to the laundry room and plug right into that 240v, with wires out the open door. Got it: I need to buy a wall charger for it's hard-wire safety, and to keep the bugs out of the laundry room.

Once the electrician comes next week, I can plug the bag-in-the-trunk Lucid wires into the NEMA plug at my new garage sub-panel, correct?

Then when I get the aftermarket wall charger does that go into the NEMA plug?, or should this be hard wired?
Then if Lucid had a wall charger it would be hard-wired to the main panel with upgraded fuse. No plugs.

Wow. That took me too long to sort out. OK so the imaginary Lucid wall charger now costs me twice as much, or maybe I can ebay the extra wall charger I have to buy...I forgot I have to call the electrician again too...wow, I get it now. Thanks guys. Whew. What a week.

Post purchase expenses:
Saran Wrap $10000
Electrician $ 6500
floor mats
wall charger
another wall charger
another electrician visit

what am i missing ?

What do you call the Lucid bi-directional wall charger? A rumor without a name.

I'm calling the fictional Lucid wall charger "Betty"

"Yea we hooked-up. I pinned Betty to the garage wall and plugged in. Got a bit of charge out of it but she ended up draining me.
She has a wonderbox you see: goes both ways."


Also I looked up EVSE. It's at 2 cents. I already did my termites.

 

[Sandvinsd]

There are many different types of 240V plugs. The dryer typically uses NEMA 14-30 and the cable that comes with the car can only plug into NEMA 14-50. So which one do you have ?

View attachment 4681

Lucid is coming out with a 14-30 plug fro the mobile EVSE in the trunk.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

I too wish to install solar. I had hoped to do a wholly integrated electrical system.

Yeah, pretty sure he meant EVSE - the wall mounted home charging station. The Wunderbox is onboard the car and obviously already available

The wall wart is EVSE? Is that an acronym of art or is that a Lucid name for it?

All of my confusion was over the cable to the car being hard wired on the house end for safety and convenience. so obvious to me now. That is why we need a second charger: not for the charger, for the wire.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Lucid is coming out with a 14-30 plug fro the mobile EVSE in the trunk.

Ok, now I"m lost again. I thought we just said EVSE was the black jelly bean thing Lucid might some day make for permanent installation on the wall. I give up.

 

[borski]

I too wish to install solar. I had hoped to do a wholly integrated electrical system.

The wall wart is EVSE? Is that an acronym of art or is that a Lucid name for it?

All of my confusion was over the cable to the car being hard wired on the house end for safety and convenience. so obvious to me now. That is why we need a second charger: not for the charger, for the wire.

All of this is answered in the forum FAQ, but:

1) The Lucid “charger” is the Wunderbox charger that is built into the car. However, you’ll hear “charger” overused to mean EVSE because EVSE is so much more annoying to say.

2) EVSE is “Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment.” It is the generic term for the device that regulates the charging, typically third party. For example, Electrify America has lots of EVSEs all around the country. You may hear them called “charging stations”; same idea. There are also home EVSEs you can install, which are the ones like Wallbox pulsar plus, JuiceBox, Chargepoint, etc. *Technically*, the cable the Lucid comes with is also an EVSE, just a relatively dumb one.

3) the Lucid comes with a charging cable (or basic EVSE) in the trunk. It can be used to plug into any NEMA 14-50 outlet (where it will charge at 40 amps) or a 110v outlet (where it will trickle charge *extremely* slowly).

4) the reason to install a home EVSE is two-fold: a) if you hardwire it, it can charge at 48A on a 60A circuit (which is faster than the 40A you’d get on a 50A circuit), and b) you can schedule charging and control it remotely. If you have “time of use” pricing from your utility, the latter point is important so you don’t have to manage plugging in or unplugging manually. You do not *have* to hardwire a third party EVSE and can just plug it into a 14-50. If you do, you don’t get the extra speed but still get the charging automation.

5) if you install an EVSE, you can leave the charging cable or mobile EVSE in the trunk and use it for road trips or emergencies.

6) the Lucid Wallbox EVSE is not out yet, but we are expecting it this month or next month. It will be able to support 80A charging on a 100A circuit (assuming your wiring supports it), and will eventually support V2H (or vehicle 2 home) backup, but not at launch.

7) the charging cable the Lucid is supplied with will work just fine if you have a 14-50 and is all you need; however, be aware that most residential 14-50 outlets are not made for constant plugging and unplugging and are likely to wear out over time. You can install an industrial 14-50 outlet, but those are a bit more expensive.

That help?

 

[DeaneG]

Wait. I came here for clarity (gave up on Lucid site). You guys are making it worse.

WHY DO YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT CHARGERS????

I thought you could plug your lucid directly into your 240v drier plug, I thought the charger was built into the car?

I thought the only reason to get a Lucid charger is to bi-direction ???

The charger is in the car. You need an EVSE device to connect the car to a source of electricity- this is essentially a ground-fault circuit breaker that supplies power to the car along with a signal that tells the car how many amps the car is allowed to draw. The mobile cable that comes with the car is an example of an EVSE. You can't plug it into a dryer outlet, which is 30 amps. At present the mobile cable can only be plugged into a standard 120v outlet for extremely slow charging, or into a 14-50 (240v 50 amp) outlet for reasonable charging speed. EDIT: see Borski's excellent post above.

 

[pam4_AGT]

Lucid is coming out with a 14-30 plug fro the mobile EVSE in the trunk.

Yeah, I had asked my DA about this right around the time I was going to get may car (sometime in Apr). She put me in touch with someone else and I did not get any specific answer then so I decided to go ahead and purchase a Clipper Creek unit. The funny thing is I have not charged my Lucid at home even once.

 

[Bill55]

The charger is in the car. You need an EVSE device to connect the car to a source of electricity- this is essentially a ground-fault circuit breaker that supplies power to the car along with a signal that tells the car how many amps the car is allowed to draw. The mobile cable that comes with the car is an example of an EVSE. You can't plug it into a dryer outlet, which is 30 amps. At present the mobile cable can only be plugged into a standard 120v outlet for extremely slow charging, or into a 14-50 (240v 50 amp) outlet for reasonable charging speed. EDIT: see Borski's excellent post above.

It is my experience that the included cable is only pulling 32amps. Thus some people have successfully charged on 30amp circuits using an adapter. Typically you only want to pull 80% of rating so a 14-50 plug on a 50amp breaker pulls 40amps.

 

[pam4_AGT]

So for quick and dirty charging, using Lucid supplied cables, open the garage door to the laundry room and plug right into that 240v, with wires out the open door

@COSMO CRUZ , which one of these do you have at home right now. I can give you a very specific answer then:

 

[SDHacker]

The funny thing is I have not charged my Lucid at home even once

This is why I am starting with a 14-50 outlet and the EVSE supplied in the trunk. Once I get my usage pattern established, make a decision on buying a 3rd party EVSE.

 

[pam4_AGT]

This is why I am starting with a 14-50 outlet and the EVSE supplied in the trunk. Once I get my usage pattern established, make a decision on buying a 3rd party EVSE.

Actually, I do have a Clipper Creek unit attached to the 14-30 outlet ("dryer" outlet) in my garage. The reason I have not used that even once is because I have free charging at work (~ 100 level2 chargers). That along with the occassional EA charging and I have never bothered charging at home.

 

[borski]

This is why I am starting with a 14-50 outlet and the EVSE supplied in the trunk. Once I get my usage pattern established, make a decision on buying a 3rd party EVSE.

Waking up with a “full tank” every morning is so convenient tho!

 

[Adnillien]

Actually, I do have a Clipper Creek unit attached to the 14-30 outlet ("dryer" outlet) in my garage. The reason I have not used that even once is because I have free charging at work (~ 100 level2 chargers). That along with the occassional EA charging and I have never bothered charging at home.

Charging at work is a great perk. My employer only has about 18 chargers and I only go into the office 3 days a week. I can pick up about 10% in SOC in addition to the power fro my commute. My goal is to start the week around 40% SOC and finish around 70%. Like you, I rarely charge at home.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

All of this is answered in the forum FAQ



That help?

Ah... I"m such a noob. I didn't even see the FAQ. Thanks.

Electrician arrived unexpected and spun my day into a tizzy. I did not expect to get my car this year.
Once I realized my confusion was just about one end of the charger cable being fixed my brain went, "Ahhhh . we don't need a charger, we need a cable attached to the house, and that comes with a charger on the fixed side. got it. My brain is fried.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

can't find the forum FAQ
nothing comes up when I put FAQ in the search box ?

 

[AIR.LUCID]

Your comment prompted me to reach out to Lucid and request information I can provide my electrician to prepare for the vehicle. I explained I would have solar panels, battery storage in garage, would use Lucid battery to power home only in severe multi-day power outage, and would have ability to sell excess power to the power company. After the phone conversation I asked they email me everything they told me so that I could just hand it to my electrician. This is what I received:


Your Lucid Air comes with a mobile charging cable to plugs into a 240v NEMA 14-50 outlet. With this setup, your vehicle will be able to draw up to 40-amps (which equates to approximately 40-miles of range per hour).

• Our Lucid Connected Home Charging System (wall charger) is expected to be available in the third quarter of this year. Your Lucid Air and the upcoming wall charger will both be “hardware ready” for bi-directional charging, but this feature will be software limited initially.

In order to futureproof your setup, please have your electrician follow the steps below:

• You will want to hardwire the future wall charger to a breaker with at least 100-amp capacity (you will be drawing up to 80-amps from this setup)
  
  • If you don’t have the capacity on your breaker, your electrician may want to proactively upsize this.
• You will want to run upsized wiring from the breaker to a junction box that’s in the area where you want to hang the future wall charger. This wiring should be rated for up to 100-amps.
• You will want to put a junction box in the area where you plan to hang the wall charger and have the upsized wiring lead to it.
• You will want to have the electrician hardwire the NEMA 14-50 outlet to the junction box and install an appropriately sized fuse.
• Once the wall charger is available, the electrician would only have to remove the junction box and NEMA outlet and hardwire the wall charger in its place. They will need to swap out the fuse to one that can accommodate up to 80-amps.

I do want to call out that details for bi-directional charging have not yet been released. The hardware is already in the vehicle and built into the upcoming Lucid Connected Home Charging System. There may be additional hardware that is required down the line- primarily if you are running your home from your car, there needs to be a way to disconnect from the breaker.

Hope that helps! The big point made in the phone call was to run upsized wiring to handle bi-directional charging. Do not run wiring sufficient to charge the car through the NEMA 14-50 outlet, if you do then to do directional I would need to replace all the NEMA 14-50 wiring with wiring sufficient to handle the di-directional charging.

If the supplied cable can charge at 40 amps, is a wall charger worth it?