Winter driving observations from a newbie

[William Short]

I just did my first road trip in winter driving conditions with my Air Touring model. A few observations and questions, as an EV newbie. For the last25+ years, my cars have been Audi A6 sedans, so I’m comparing to my experiences in those vehicles.

Steering and stopping were scary poor in snow in the Lucid, and I expect most of that is due to the tires (the all season 19inch tires). All season tires were more than adequate for the Audi. Any recommendations for better all season tires for the Lucid, or failing that, for dedicated snow tires?

Pretty much all the front sensors were blocked by snow within 15 minutes of driving in a blizzard – camera, LIDAR, and ultrasonic. It was disappointing to lose the safety systems in driving conditions that would have benefited greatly from them. In the Audi, it took hours and hours of driving in similar blizzard conditions before a sensor (camera, ultrasonic, or radar) was lost. Do other Air drivers experience this?

It seemed like I lost a lot of range, and I wonder if it was due to the near-continuous use of the windshield defroster during the blizzard to help maintain visibility. The next day was just as cold, but didn’t need the defroster, and range was not much different from normal driving. Does that match other peoples’ experiences?

Thanks.

 

[stratus]

I just did my first road trip in winter driving conditions with my Air Touring model. A few observations and questions, as an EV newbie. For the last25+ years, my cars have been Audi A6 sedans, so I’m comparing to my experiences in those vehicles.

Steering and stopping were scary poor in snow in the Lucid, and I expect most of that is due to the tires (the all season 19inch tires). All season tires were more than adequate for the Audi. Any recommendations for better all season tires for the Lucid, or failing that, for dedicated snow tires?

Pretty much all the front sensors were blocked by snow within 15 minutes of driving in a blizzard – camera, LIDAR, and ultrasonic. It was disappointing to lose the safety systems in driving conditions that would have benefited greatly from them. In the Audi, it took hours and hours of driving in similar blizzard conditions before a sensor (camera, ultrasonic, or radar) was lost. Do other Air drivers experience this?

It seemed like I lost a lot of range, and I wonder if it was due to the near-continuous use of the windshield defroster during the blizzard to help maintain visibility. The next day was just as cold, but didn’t need the defroster, and range was not much different from normal driving. Does that match other peoples’ experiences?

Thanks.

I drove mine all last winter on 19s all season and it was excellent; including steering and stopping. I have a Subaru Outback and I ended up using the Lucid because for me the performance was similar to my Outback , except in very deep snow. So your experience is definitely discordant from mine.

As far as range, not much can be done about that; using heated seats and wheel helps a bit. Range went into the 2.4-3.0 m/kWh in winter for me, especially with below zero temps.

My sensors do get blocked in snowstorms

One thing to consider, best to have Regen on low during winter.

 

[victoryroad]

I just did my first road trip in winter driving conditions with my Air Touring model. A few observations and questions, as an EV newbie. For the last25+ years, my cars have been Audi A6 sedans, so I’m comparing to my experiences in those vehicles.

Steering and stopping were scary poor in snow in the Lucid, and I expect most of that is due to the tires (the all season 19inch tires). All season tires were more than adequate for the Audi. Any recommendations for better all season tires for the Lucid, or failing that, for dedicated snow tires?

Pretty much all the front sensors were blocked by snow within 15 minutes of driving in a blizzard – camera, LIDAR, and ultrasonic. It was disappointing to lose the safety systems in driving conditions that would have benefited greatly from them. In the Audi, it took hours and hours of driving in similar blizzard conditions before a sensor (camera, ultrasonic, or radar) was lost. Do other Air drivers experience this?

It seemed like I lost a lot of range, and I wonder if it was due to the near-continuous use of the windshield defroster during the blizzard to help maintain visibility. The next day was just as cold, but didn’t need the defroster, and range was not much different from normal driving. Does that match other peoples’ experiences?

Thanks.

I used Pirelli Sotto Zeros last winter in NH and across the country to CO last March. The compound is much more pliable than the AS 19s and I never lost traction even in a few inches of snow. Fact is that AS and summer compound tires are suboptimal when the temperature goes below 40 degrees. It is well worth the money to get winter compound tires when it may make the difference between staying in control and skidding into an obstruction.

 

[borski]

I just did my first road trip in winter driving conditions with my Air Touring model. A few observations and questions, as an EV newbie. For the last25+ years, my cars have been Audi A6 sedans, so I’m comparing to my experiences in those vehicles.

Steering and stopping were scary poor in snow in the Lucid, and I expect most of that is due to the tires (the all season 19inch tires). All season tires were more than adequate for the Audi. Any recommendations for better all season tires for the Lucid, or failing that, for dedicated snow tires?

Pretty much all the front sensors were blocked by snow within 15 minutes of driving in a blizzard – camera, LIDAR, and ultrasonic. It was disappointing to lose the safety systems in driving conditions that would have benefited greatly from them. In the Audi, it took hours and hours of driving in similar blizzard conditions before a sensor (camera, ultrasonic, or radar) was lost. Do other Air drivers experience this?

It seemed like I lost a lot of range, and I wonder if it was due to the near-continuous use of the windshield defroster during the blizzard to help maintain visibility. The next day was just as cold, but didn’t need the defroster, and range was not much different from normal driving. Does that match other peoples’ experiences?

Thanks.

What is the tread on your tires? I have found steering on the 19s in snow to be spectacular. Stopping is OK; need to start at longer distances, but not squirrelly.

I’ve lost lidar but not radar in snow.

If it snows a lot where you live, I’d get some winter tires.

 

[stratus]

What is the tread on your tires? I have found steering on the 19s in snow to be spectacular. Stopping is OK; need to start at longer distances, but not squirrelly.

I’ve lost lidar but not radar in snow.

If it snows a lot where you live, I’d get some winter tires.

I was really impressed last winter with the traction, even on the all seasons. We received close to 150 inches of snow at my house and I live on top of a mile long steep hill , at elevation. The car cruised through the snow very well, even on steep inclines. There were a couple times when it was so deep that I worried about ground clearance so I took our Subaru.
The only time it got a bit wonky was on ice.
Snow tires will undoubtedly be even better .

 

[chinesejpl]

I just did my first road trip in winter driving conditions with my Air Touring model. A few observations and questions, as an EV newbie. For the last25+ years, my cars have been Audi A6 sedans, so I’m comparing to my experiences in those vehicles.

Steering and stopping were scary poor in snow in the Lucid, and I expect most of that is due to the tires (the all season 19inch tires). All season tires were more than adequate for the Audi. Any recommendations for better all season tires for the Lucid, or failing that, for dedicated snow tires?

Pretty much all the front sensors were blocked by snow within 15 minutes of driving in a blizzard – camera, LIDAR, and ultrasonic. It was disappointing to lose the safety systems in driving conditions that would have benefited greatly from them. In the Audi, it took hours and hours of driving in similar blizzard conditions before a sensor (camera, ultrasonic, or radar) was lost. Do other Air drivers experience this?

It seemed like I lost a lot of range, and I wonder if it was due to the near-continuous use of the windshield defroster during the blizzard to help maintain visibility. The next day was just as cold, but didn’t need the defroster, and range was not much different from normal driving. Does that match other peoples’ experiences?

Thanks.

I share your sentiment. I came from a model X. I have 19" winters (Bridgestone bizzaks) on my AGT. During winter driving last year I was unimpressed with how my car drove... It did not feel stable and steering was very light. I did not feel confident in the car whereas I felt invincible in my model X. I'm not sure why it was that way...maybe it's because the car is so low? Also, I don't usually drive sedans so maybe that could be contributing as well as I'm comparing this to an SUV that sits higher? I have no idea but I am certainly a bit nervous about driving it this winter although not enough to not drive it.

As for range, I'm getting about 2.3-2.5 mi/kWh in the cold.

Not sure how this helps except to share that I'm in the same boat as you.

 

[Volund]

What is the tread on your tires? I have found steering on the 19s in snow to be spectacular. Stopping is OK; need to start at longer distances, but not squirrelly.

I’ve lost lidar but not radar in snow.

If it snows a lot where you live, I’d get some winter tires.

I'm with you on this, did a full cross country road trip in sub 20 degrees temperatures last year and the car did AMAZING, but I did lose my lidar, radar, practically everything because the front of the car sticks a layer of snow on it like glue and it's impossible to clear it up without chiseling at the snow. The Lucid iconic lip where the headlights are, as well as where the radar is, creates a base for the snow to stick. I found myself keeping ACC on with furthest distance from car in front of me to feel very safe and comfortable mid-blizzard when visibility was poor during a Colorado snow storm.. However once those sensors are blocked, ACC won't work let alone HA. I wish at least cruise control would work when those censors are blocked but it doesn't. The car is all ceramic coated too, not sure what can be done there.

 

[DBV]

I'm with you on this, did a full cross country road trip in sub 20 degrees temperatures last year and the car did AMAZING, but I did lose my lidar, radar, practically everything because the front of the car sticks a layer of snow on it like glue and it's impossible to clear it up without chiseling at the snow. The Lucid iconic lip where the headlights are, as well as where the radar is, creates a base for the snow to stick. I found myself keeping ACC on with furthest distance from car in front of me to feel very safe and comfortable mid-blizzard when visibility was poor during a Colorado snow storm.. However once those sensors are blocked, ACC won't work let alone HA. I wish at least cruise control would work when those censors are blocked but it doesn't. The car is all ceramic coated too, not sure what can be done there.

Are you saying the headlights got caked in snow too? If so, how did that affect visibility when driving?

 

[Volund]

Are you saying the headlights got caked in snow too? If so, how did that affect visibility when driving?

I think the headlights was the only thing that didn't get covered up, everything else did in that lip, camera included

 

[joec]

I think the headlights was the only thing that didn't get covered up, everything else did in that lip, camera included

Yeah, I think the headlights are the only thing giving off enough heat to melt through the snow.

The LiDAR and radar aren’t that big a deal. You generally wouldn’t want to be using HA or even ACC in heavy snow. But the cameras are a pain in the butt. I end up wiping all of them off every time I stop for a bathroom break. But they get dirty and useless again pretty quick.

 

[Steveinarizona]

One of my frustrations with forums like this one is that signatures don't necessarily include location. If the OP is in Anchorage (e.g.) trying to drive on 21" all season tires that experience would be very different from someone in northern Arizona driving on a few inches of snow with the same tires.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

I did a detailed post a few days ago about winter driving efficiency. My conclusion is at 20F I lost 33% efficiency.

I find the 19 inch all season tires to be outstanding for all season tires. Lucid features the Pirelli winter tires if you want better snow and ice performance. I plan to get the winter tires soon.

 

[AnthonyInCO]

One thing to consider, best to have Regen on low during winter.

Curious on background to this suggestion? I grew up in the rockies (northern NM and CO) driving pickup trucks with manual transmission, and I either was taught or figured out that gearing down was the optimal way to "brake" in snow/ice. Granted, ABS in those trucks 20 years ago probably aren't comparable to what these cars have today, but seems that gearing down is still better than friction brakes.

Wouldn't regen be the equivalent of gearing down? Or is there something different with regen? Maybe the inability to control the regen on the fly?

 

[stratus]

Curious on background to this suggestion? I grew up in the rockies (northern NM and CO) driving pickup trucks with manual transmission, and I either was taught or figured out that gearing down was the optimal way to "brake" in snow/ice. Granted, ABS in those trucks 20 years ago probably aren't comparable to what these cars have today, but seems that gearing down is still better than friction brakes.

Wouldn't regen be the equivalent of gearing down? Or is there something different with regen? Maybe the inability to control the regen on the fly?

I am not an expert on regen but with the Air there are 2 regen settings, basically low and high. With lower regen , the car comes to a more gradual stop than high regen; i.e, it is significantly less abrupt when one lets off of the accelerator. The only way you can control Regen in the Air , when coming to a stop, is by modifying pressure on the accelerator.

In winter, especially in snowy and icy conditions, low Regen is safer because if you are driving along and let your foot of the accelerator, the car will not attempt to stop as abruptly ; thereby reducing the chance of causing major sliding on slick surfaces. It’s akin to not braking as hard if you were in an ICE. The goal is to maintain vehicle stability and low regen will be advantageous in this regard.

Last winter, I forgot to switch to lower regen and I was on an icy stretch of road. It was a bit harrowing.

 

[segbrk]

I'm no expert either, but I think this is just something that requires retraining coming from ICE vehicles. You say high regen makes you come to a more abrupt stop, but I bet you don't actually drive like this. You don't need to switch the regen setting because you don't need to wildly take your foot off the accelerator and move to the brakes. Slowly take your foot off the accelerator, slow down gently, and then finish with the brakes (and ABS) if you need to. Unless you don't have that time to react to something in front of you, in which case it's hardly any different from an ICE. You slam on your brakes and let ABS deal with it.

Tesla used to recommend switching to low regen on slippery roads, but they've since removed that setting. Apparently they didn't think it was too critical.

I also learned to drive on back roads in Colorado and found that there was no clear consensus over the engine braking thing either. Downshifting while descending long and steep hills, definitely good to save your brakes. Downshifting to stop at an icy intersection? Maybe in old cars/trucks, but nowadays, you'll have better control with ABS. If you lose traction you want to stop slowing down briefly to regain it. You can do that with braking much faster than you can do it with a transmission.

 

[stratus]

I'm no expert either, but I think this is just something that requires retraining coming from ICE vehicles. You say high regen makes you come to a more abrupt stop, but I bet you don't actually drive like this. You don't need to switch the regen setting because you don't need to wildly take your foot off the accelerator and move to the brakes. Slowly take your foot off the accelerator, slow down gently, and then finish with the brakes (and ABS) if you need to. Unless you don't have that time to react to something in front of you, in which case it's hardly any different from an ICE. You slam on your brakes and let ABS deal with it.

Tesla used to recommend switching to low regen on slippery roads, but they've since removed that setting. Apparently they didn't think it was too critical.

I also learned to drive on back roads in Colorado and found that there was no clear consensus over the engine braking thing either. Downshifting while descending long and steep hills, definitely good to save your brakes. Downshifting to stop at an icy intersection? Maybe in old cars/trucks, but nowadays, you'll have better control with ABS. If you lose traction you want to stop slowing down briefly to regain it. You can do that with braking much faster than you can do it with a transmission.

You make a good point but I do think it may be better to use low regen in winter.
Living on a very steep hill , basically covered in ice and snow for many months, I found it a tad easier to control my car on the descent , with low regen. But what may work for me may not apply to everyone.
Last winter I was in high regen and it was extremely icy. I let off the acceleration abruptly and if it wasn’t for the cars excellent traction control , I would have been in a nice ditch. Wasn’t a controlled experiment and I don’t know if low regen would have produced a similar sphincter tightening moment, but that was my experience.

 

[joec]

For what it’s worth, the manual recommends low regen in the snow. My guess is they know what they are talking about.

As to why that’s better, I’ll leave that to the engineers.

 

[Volund]

Yeah, I think the headlights are the only thing giving off enough heat to melt through the snow.

The LiDAR and radar aren’t that big a deal. You generally wouldn’t want to be using HA or even ACC in heavy snow. But the cameras are a pain in the butt. I end up wiping all of them off every time I stop for a bathroom break. But they get dirty and useless again pretty quick.

When it freezes I couldn't wipe it off. I had to give it a good whack.

And actually, the cameras do a lot better job with visibility than eyes sometimes because they're closer to the lines and directly above, I've driven on SLC streets at 19 mph to test the cameras and it always sees the lines super clear compared to what visibility I get in the car due to crappy lighting, road, fog, and no reflectors

 

[Volund]

For what it’s worth, the manual recommends low regen in the snow. My guess is they know what they are talking about.

As to why that’s better, I’ll leave that to the engineers.

I think people who drive too harshly, lead foot, will probably activate high regen too quickly at max and then basically break into a turn on black ice or something and it could be an unexpected slide

 

[gavram]

I wonder if it's the tires. I have Michelin 20" all-season tires on my Touring and they've been very competent...even in heavier snow storms. I previously had a 2013 Audi A6 on all-season tires so I'm comparing the Lucid's snow performance to the Audi.