Wife got an R1S. Software envy increased

[emkman]

They care about:

• how intuitive the car feels
• how polished the software is
• whether features actually show up when promised

Lucid built an engineering masterpiece, in my opinion nothing competes with it, but if that experience doesn’t translate to something customers feel every day, it won’t resonate at scale.

This is how I feel. The hardware is great and the Air is such a nicer and more comfortable ride than Tesla but the software and bugs really kill the ownership experience. I want to love Lucid but so many issues remain unfixed and it makes it clear that there is no pride of ownership among the engineers/product people. I had a Tesla for 8 years and one of the amazing feelings in the early days was when you found a bug, you didn't care because you didn't even need to report it and it would be fixed by an update in a few weeks. In contrast, many basic quality of ownership issues in the Air have gone unfixed for a year+.

I really don't like boxy SUVs and I still find myself likely to get an R2 once my Air lease ends because the software and the autonomy on Rivian appear so much better.

 

[msaunders9430]

All true - but if you make a statement that it’s butt ugly and you pity Rivian owners, and yet it sells in much higher numbers than the one you think is better looking, then maybe you are the one who is wrong.

Or - maybe people consider the whole package, which obviously includes functionality, reliability and usability in addition to appearance. That, plus the cost, surely has to weigh on most people’s decisions, no? “We’d sell just as many if we were priced lower” is weak sauce because those are decisions that Lucid made that automatically limited their market.

R2 versus Earth/Cosmos will be very telling. Rivian is beating Lucid to the punch so let’s see how sales go when they are both available in the same segment. I’m pulling for both to knock it out of the park because I like more choices and I also like the competition that drives innovation. I do get tired of people banging on Tesla and Rivian just because they happen to own a Lucid - makes zero sense to me.

Agreement on paragraphs 2 & 3.
Paragraph 1, nope. I don't care if they sell a billion of them. They're still butt ugly, to me.

 

[Leftlane]

To be clear - I really like Rivian. I don't own one, but many of my friends do, and they like their cars, by and large. I have issues with Tesla, and those should be obvious (and unrelated to their dear leader; they no longer make good cars, period, and their cars were never luxury to start, but I digress).

I also eagerly await the competition. I have said on this forum over and over that more competition is better than less competition, and I want Rivian to do well. I also want Lucid to do well. In fact, I also want Tesla to do well - I just wish they made cars still, instead of hopium.

But Rivian is solid, even if it isn't my cup of tea; a vehicle for a different driver, for sure.

I, too, am hopeful they both knock it out of the park.

I get it - I understand why people dislike Tesla, but I would argue that my Model S Plaid is fantastic, but different than what you get with Lucid. It is a great car, so of course Tesla is abandoning it. I dislike what Elon is doing and the direction he is taking Tesla as much as anyone, and I am glad there are a lot of options that didn’t exist before. That said, I would buy another S Plaid without hesitation but I don’t see the need to trade mine plus add $70k to go from a 22 to a 26.

I don’t know anyone personally who doesn’t love their Rivian, but that sample size is admittedly small.

I think we should all want these companies to succeed and push each other for the benefit of all of us and also for the benefit of the planet.

 

[borski]

I get it - I understand why people dislike Tesla, but I would argue that my Model S Plaid is fantastic, but different than what you get with Lucid. It is a great car, so of course Tesla is abandoning it. I dislike what Elon is doing and the direction he is taking Tesla as much as anyone, and I am glad there are a lot of options that didn’t exist before. That said, I would buy another S Plaid without hesitation but I don’t see the need to trade mine plus add $70k to go from a 22 to a 26.

The Model S Plaid and Audi R8 (lol, and people think I hate petrol) were the cars I was cross shopping before I met the Air.

I get why people like the Plaid. I wanted to like it too. Then I met the Air and she swept me away.

The S Plaid is also better now than when I test drove it, I suspect. When I drove it it was severely underbraked, which was my biggest pet peeve. I also hated the UX (shocker, I know )

But I’d agree it’s probably the best car Tesla has ever produced. The Model X was “neat” but too cumbersome for my tastes.

But none of them were luxury.

I don’t know anyone personally who doesn’t love their Rivian, but that sample size is admittedly small.

I know a few; but mostly they don’t like it because it’s a stiffer and “blockier” ride than they expected.

I agree though; most owners I’ve met like their cars, but I also hear a lot of software complaints (lol)

I think we should all want these companies to succeed and push each other for the benefit of all of us and also for the benefit of the planet.

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[scal_air]

Everybody has different tastes and likes. I personally think the Rivians look bugly. It's a pretty big deal for me. But I admit that the Tesla has better driver assist / hands free driving but it's not a deal breaker as I don't really use it often. Other people may put the exact opposite in importance for them.

As for Rivian outselling Lucid...
The Big Mac outsells the In-n-Out double double by eye popping multiples. But which is superior product?

 

[doubletwist]

As for Rivian outselling Lucid...
The Big Mac outsells the In-n-Out double double by eye popping multiples. But which is superior product?

Truthfully? They are both garbage. Just terrible hamburgers, the both of them.

But that doesn't stop both from selling millions because ppl seem to like (or tolerate them) anyway.

No reason cars shouldn't be different. There's a long history of cars that are objectively terrible but they sell anyway (see the last 40+years of Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth).

I see no reason both Rivian and Lucid can't be successful.

Lucid does still have more catching up to do, but I've said for awhile, if Lucid can figure out there software and fix the last of their reliability and COGS issues, they'll just about take over the world.

 

[borski]

The Big Mac outsells the In-n-Out double double by eye popping multiples. But which is superior product?

Five guys.

 

[tmichael]

I guess you don’t remember that people said the exact same thing about the Air software problems and how much more robust it would be with the Gravity.

You're absolutely right - I got on the Lucid software train in late December with the Gravity.

I guess I am looking for Lucid to change - sort of hoping the saying “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” doesn't apply!

My Gravity is wonderful - it is by far the greatest car I have ever owned and I'm happy when driving it. But, applying the same saying above, I am an investor who has dollar cost averaged down - we sometimes call that throwing good money after bad - but I hope there is a change in the way the next vehicle is handled. I believe it is a truly existential period for Lucid. Can they pull it off? I sure hope so. If they don't, it won't be for hardware reasons.

So, yes, I am an eternal optimist. I believe that people intentionally do the best they can. I'm a capitalist, so I understand there will be successful companies that grow and thrive and other companies that don't. The two beliefs are not mutually exclusive - but they cannot be considered givens, no matter how many shares I own or how much I want to buy a new Gravity at the end of my lease. Lucid's future is literally at stake over the next few years.

As a car enthusiast, I want them to make it. As an investor, I want them to make it. We are all going to watch what happens, as it happens. It's a wonderful time to be alive!!!

 

[Truthlesshunter]

All true - but if you make a statement that it’s butt ugly and you pity Rivian owners, and yet it sells in much higher numbers than the one you think is better looking, then maybe you are the one who is wrong.

Or - maybe people consider the whole package, which obviously includes functionality, reliability and usability in addition to appearance. That, plus the cost, surely has to weigh on most people’s decisions, no? “We’d sell just as many if we were priced lower” is weak sauce because those are decisions that Lucid made that automatically limited their market.

R2 versus Earth/Cosmos will be very telling. Rivian is beating Lucid to the punch so let’s see how sales go when they are both available in the same segment. I’m pulling for both to knock it out of the park because I like more choices and I also like the competition that drives innovation. I do get tired of people banging on Tesla and Rivian just because they happen to own a Lucid - makes zero sense to me.

this right here.

I bought a lucid air GT because I got a great deal on it, the range is great on paper and it is a better driver's car.

If I could have found a rivian that depreciated like this car did, I would have gotten the rivian. And don't get me wrong...the air gt is the second best EV I've ever driven from a driver's standpoint (second to the taycan)....but I absolutely regret my purchase because of the software and support. The software, it is damn obvious they can't deliver. And the support...well...the people i've talked to at Lucid have all been nice enough but I'm always left holding the bag and with things that don't work as they should with no solutions and no real offered solutions beyond reading the manual. I would be already out of my lucid if values didn't keep cratering and i can't get anything for it so i'll just keep it until it becomes reasonable for me to trade it in/sell it again (i do switch cars every few years, but this is the first time I bought a car i thought would have no problem lasting me a few years; i'm now 6 months into ownership and i've been looking to get out for the past month-month and a half)

 

[BS8899]

this right here.

I bought a lucid air GT because I got a great deal on it, the range is great on paper and it is a better driver's car.

If I could have found a rivian that depreciated like this car did, I would have gotten the rivian. And don't get me wrong...the air gt is the second best EV I've ever driven from a driver's standpoint (second to the taycan)....but I absolutely regret my purchase because of the software and support. The software, it is damn obvious they can't deliver. And the support...well...the people i've talked to at Lucid have all been nice enough but I'm always left holding the bag and with things that don't work as they should with no solutions and no real offered solutions beyond reading the manual. I would be already out of my lucid if values didn't keep cratering and i can't get anything for it so i'll just keep it until it becomes reasonable for me to trade it in/sell it again (i do switch cars every few years, but this is the first time I bought a car i thought would have no problem lasting me a few years; i'm now 6 months into ownership and i've been looking to get out for the past month-month and a half)

SW is by far and away Lucid's biggest deficit. Lack of service center is the other big bogeyman lurking. I am still experiencing glitches after 3-1/2 years! My latest episode is, my Lucid has forgotten who I am. I have to enter my PIN and manually adjust my seating every time. Is it the end of the world? No,! But it is not a $150,000 car!

3-1/2 years ago, a couple of months after I purchased my AGT, I posted (or at least attempted to) comments on this forum about my concerns of Lucid's SW and symptoms of a lack-of methodical development and validation methodologies. My post was promptly taken down by a moderator, citing rule violation, "trying to act as a CEO". Now, 3-1/2 later, SW is still a mess!

HW/SW integration is a hard problem, especially in mission critical applications. The fundamentals need to be set at the development and validation stage. Lucid's post-intro "fly-swatting" approach is not going to cut it!

 

[Leftlane]

The Big Mac outsells the In-n-Out double double by eye popping multiples. But which is superior product?

Five guys.

So many people confused about so many things.

Whataburger FTW.

 

[BrianBigNFun]

So many people confused about so many things.

Whataburger FTW.

I have gout so they all hurt my big toe

 

[prgarg]

And the support...well...the people i've talked to at Lucid have all been nice enough but I'm always left holding the bag and with things that don't work as they should with no solutions and no real offered solutions beyond reading the manual.

 

[tmichael]

I have gout so they all hurt my big toe

 

[prgarg]

It is on topic! Hurt toe = No creep mode posible

 

[tmichael]

It is on topic! Hurt toe = No creep mode posible

You know, in a $100K+ car, there should be a "gout" button to fix that!

 

[Need4Sleep]

So many people confused about so many things.

Whataburger FTW.

There's a burger place near me that replaces both buns with grilled cheese sandwiches. It's as deliciously heart-stopping as it sounds.

Anyways, back towards the topic, seeing the improvements and feedback in Gravity's 3.5.1 (granted, still a few issues here and there), and given that it is the same backbone being implemented into midsize, I'm cautiously optimistic for Lucid. I sincerely hope that their software will come out strong once Cosmos rolls out.

Personally, I don't think it should be as feature-rich to the same degree that Gravity initially promised, but instead it should be focused on being consistent and robust.

Regardless, I'm both cheering for Rivian and Lucid. Admittedly, I'm biased for Lucid and I'm on my knees for a tri-motor sapphire trim for Cosmos. The competition is a good thing, as I personally believe legacy auto has been getting too complacent and comfortable. BMW's Neue Klasse ix3 and i3 look like promising examples of legacy companies focusing on improving their software in-house.

 

[gaskiller]

“Tesla took 7 years” isn’t relevant here. The right comparison is Rivian.

Both Rivian and Lucid:

• launched within months of each other
• both run AAOS
• started from a clean slate

However, the execution couldn’t look more different.

Rivian has been aggressive with software, shipping features quickly, iterating often, and actually delivering on what they announce. It’s not perfect, but the pace and follow-through are clearly there. There’s a reason VW wrote them a $5B check for their software stack.

Meanwhile, Lucid continues to struggle with the basics of the ownership experience.

Something that should be relatively simple like Camp Mode, is still missing long after deliveries began. AR HUD? don't get me started, Apple Digital Key? Still no clear timeline. V2H? Another “coming soon” with no visibility. And “soon” from Lucid has already proven to be… flexible.

This isn’t about nitpicking features, it’s about execution. Lucid clearly prioritized engineering (which shows), but underestimated how critical the software experience is to owners. Now they’re playing catch-up, and the gap is visible.

The bigger issue is timing. Rivian’s R2 will hit the market before Lucid’s midsize vehicles. That segment is going to attract a wave of first-time EV buyers, people who aren’t loyal to any brand yet. At that point, software isn’t a bonus, it’s a deciding factor.

And here’s the uncomfortable reality:

The things Lucid absolutely excels at (range, efficiency, charging performance, driving dynamics) are the things only die-hards like us really obsess over. The broader market doesn’t shop that way.

They care about:

• how intuitive the car feels
• how polished the software is
• whether features actually show up when promised

Lucid built an engineering masterpiece, in my opinion nothing competes with it, but if that experience doesn’t translate to something customers feel every day, it won’t resonate at scale.

So the question is simple:

When those buyers compare Rivian vs Lucid…
which company’s software reputation is going to help them win?

Agree, Peter Rawlinson was overconfident, he thought people would be falling over themselves to buy the Air but we know how that turned out. The present iteration is what the Air should have been when it came out. Took them 5 years.

 

[gaskiller]

All true - but if you make a statement that it’s butt ugly and you pity Rivian owners, and yet it sells in much higher numbers than the one you think is better looking, then maybe you are the one who is wrong.

Or - maybe people consider the whole package, which obviously includes functionality, reliability and usability in addition to appearance. That, plus the cost, surely has to weigh on most people’s decisions, no? “We’d sell just as many if we were priced lower” is weak sauce because those are decisions that Lucid made that automatically limited their market.

R2 versus Earth/Cosmos will be very telling. Rivian is beating Lucid to the punch so let’s see how sales go when they are both available in the same segment. I’m pulling for both to knock it out of the park because I like more choices and I also like the competition that drives innovation. I do get tired of people banging on Tesla and Rivian just because they happen to own a Lucid - makes zero sense to me.

I’m happy to bang on Tesla, the lying CEO took 12k from me and promised FSD in 2018…

I also hate Rivian buyers banging on Lucid. “ oh, look at my software” ..who cares about energy data?

Only thing most people want to see is efficiency. Dashcam is the only thing missing from Lucid.

 

[Need4Sleep]

I’m happy to bang on Tesla, the lying CEO took 12k from me and promised FSD in 2018…

I also hate Rivian buyers banging on Lucid. “ oh, look at my software” ..who cares about energy data?

Only thing most people want to see is efficiency. Dashcam is the only thing missing from Lucid.

That's what I don't understand about this whole "rivalry" (for lack of a better term) between Rivian fans and Lucid fans (and to an extent, other companies). If anything, we should be cheering for each other because more competition is a good thing.