Wife got an R1S. Software envy increased

[BS8899]

I’m happy to bang on Tesla, the lying CEO took 12k from me and promised FSD in 2018…

I also hate Rivian buyers banging on Lucid. “ oh, look at my software” ..who cares about energy data?

Only thing most people want to see is efficiency. Dashcam is the only thing missing from Lucid.

Yes, the Lucid is more efficient over Rivian, but not as much as Lucid claims. On paper, the AGT is ~2X more efficient than the R1S.

On my 780 mile road trips (Sausalito to Phoenix I-5/I10) which I drive 2X to 3X per year in my R1S and AGT, I get ~3.5mi/kWh on my AGT and ~2.5 mi/kWh on my R1S. Depending on how you pivot the data, the AGT is ~30% more efficient. Rivian often meet/exceed the rated efficiency whilst Lucid persistently missed its claim efficiency by ~25%.

So, if efficiency is the determining factor, Lucid is better (but not as good as they claimed).

 

[Adnillien]

On my 780 mile road trips (Sausalito to Phoenix I-5/I10) which I drive 2X to 3X per year in my R1S and AGT, I get ~3.5mi/kWh on my AGT and ~2.5 mi/kWh on my R1S. Depending on how you pivot the data, the AGT is ~30% more efficient. Rivian often meet/exceed the rated efficiency whilst Lucid persistently missed its claim efficiency by ~25%.

Your data actually shows that the AGT is 40% more efficient than the R1S. In any case comparing an SUV to a sedan does not make much sense. Comparing Gravity efficiency to the R1S would be much more interesting.

 

[illopp00]

I am surprised, what data is there to suggest that SW is an actual differentiator in the mass market? Tesla supposedly has massive SW differentiation (even though I think it's a menu - sub menu fest) and yet their sales have declined for 2 years straight. Software and lots of screens = cheap Chinese crap, it's all been copied. Like I get a car can't be annoying and the basics must work but after that my phone is still better in every way, all I need is airplay to make it bigger. I just saw Google added route planning to AAOS.

 

[BS8899]

Your data actually shows that the AGT is 40% more efficient than the R1S. In any case comparing an SUV to a sedan does not make much sense. Comparing Gravity efficiency to the R1S would be much more interesting.

True! But I don't have a Gravity. If you loan me yours for my next road trip, I will report back.

PS: I just drove my R1S towing a UHaul trailer (4x8, heavily loaded) back from Sausalito to Phoenix. I averaged about 1.5mi/kWh.

 

[BS8899]

Your data actually shows that the AGT is 40% more efficient than the R1S. In any case comparing an SUV to a sedan does not make much sense. Comparing Gravity efficiency to the R1S would be much more interesting.

Your data actually shows that the AGT is 40% more efficient than the R1S. In any case comparing an SUV to a sedan does not make much sense. Comparing Gravity efficiency to the R1S would be much more interesting.

Depending on how you pivot the data, it is between 28% to 40%. Not worth arguing, let's just say 35%!

 

[tmichael]

That's what I don't understand about this whole "rivalry" (for lack of a better term) between Rivian fans and Lucid fans (and to an extent, other companies). If anything, we should be cheering for each other because more competition is a good thing.

I think the "rivalry" or competitiveness is a function of humans wanting to be proven right. We want others to agree with our decisions. It's a natural instinct.

In reality, we all bought for a number of reasons - most of all, what was the best compromise for ourselves. I need 6 seats, others don't. I don't want off-road capability, others do.

I wanted captain's chairs. I compromised.

I absolutely believe competition creates improvements! It is one of the many things that have created the largest free economy in the world in a relatively short 250 years!

Dream Ahead!

 

[Pragmatic]

No, the Rivian costs 40% more to do the trip than the Air.

Or stated another way

The Air can cut your trip cost by 28%.

 

[BS8899]

No, the Rivian costs 40% more to do the trip than the Air.

Or stated another way

The Air can cut your trip cost by 28%.

Not disagreeing with your numbers. I make these trips 2X/yr. That means its cost be about $140 more per year for these two round-trips.

 

[DeaneG]

...I also hate Rivian buyers banging on Lucid. “ oh, look at my software” ..who cares about energy data?...

It's handy on long trips into charging deserts.

 

[BS8899]

Not disagreeing with your numbers. I make these trips 2X/yr. That means its cost be about $140 more per year for these two round-trips.

As @Adnillien noted, the better comparison is between Gravity and the Rivian. The differences between Gravity and R1S would smaller, Id venture to guess it is below 20%.

 

[socktucker]

That's what I don't understand about this whole "rivalry" (for lack of a better term) between Rivian fans and Lucid fans (and to an extent, other companies)

is there really one tho? They're completely different markets and everything. For now, we did see Lucid is targeting "Soccer Mom Adventurer" or whatever that slide said

 

[TahoeMichael]

I am surprised, what data is there to suggest that SW is an actual differentiator in the mass market? Tesla supposedly has massive SW differentiation (even though I think it's a menu - sub menu fest) and yet their sales have declined for 2 years straight. Software and lots of screens = cheap Chinese crap, it's all been copied. Like I get a car can't be annoying and the basics must work but after that my phone is still better in every way, all I need is airplay to make it bigger. I just saw Google added route planning to AAOS.

I don’t have data, just opinions.

I think SW is too broad a term. Individual features can be competitive differentiators. A lot of software is just table stakes, by which I mean it's not much advantage to have it, but it's a competitive knock to be missing it. Quality (both HW and SW) falls into that category for most car companies. Few companies (Toyota perhaps) manage to go above and beyond on quality enough for it to be a competitive advantage. Or to put it another way: for many aspects of a car, you have to stand out from the pack for it to clearly matter to customers (in either a good or bad way). Unfortunately, quality is an area where Lucid stands out in a bad way, aand that's made worse by their service centers being overwhelmed. AR HUD could potentially be a Lucid software feature that could be a competitive advantage, but they'd have to actually deliver it.

 

[Need4Sleep]

I am surprised, what data is there to suggest that SW is an actual differentiator in the mass market? Tesla supposedly has massive SW differentiation (even though I think it's a menu - sub menu fest) and yet their sales have declined for 2 years straight. Software and lots of screens = cheap Chinese crap, it's all been copied. Like I get a car can't be annoying and the basics must work but after that my phone is still better in every way, all I need is airplay to make it bigger. I just saw Google added route planning to AAOS.

There's more to software than just user interface and media. Lucid's a great example of under-the-hood software that we don't see. They run ethernet instead of CAN bus so they can have a faster polling rate to alter the dampers, motors, traction control, etc., as necessary. For example, in the Sapphire trim, the motors are running at 1000 Hz, which is way faster than what a traditional supplier like Bosch would run. This, combined with driver input and other sensors like six-axis accelerometers, allows them to dial the driving experience to feel "natural" like, say, an E39 M5 or M5 CS.

 

[legacy]

Since i got my GGT in jan, they delivered 3.40, 3.4.3 and 3.5.1. So seems like they are iterating at a faster pace now, the last couple updates came within weeks of eachother. And at least we have wireless Carplay now, which solves a lot.
Charging / battery monitoring displays could be improved, sure. But everything else seems to work fine.

 

[borski]

3-1/2 years ago, a couple of months after I purchased my AGT, I posted (or at least attempted to) comments on this forum about my concerns of Lucid's SW and symptoms of a lack-of methodical development and validation methodologies. My post was promptly taken down by a moderator, citing rule violation, "trying to act as a CEO".

That is not an accurate recounting of history. And, frankly, I’m sad that that’s what you took away from that exchange with the mods, but I won’t re-litigate it here.

You’re welcome to your opinion.

 

[Spaceship]

That's what I don't understand about this whole "rivalry" (for lack of a better term) between Rivian fans and Lucid fans (and to an extent, other companies). If anything, we should be cheering for each other because more competition is a good thing.

The "rivalry" is one sided. The Rivian forum almost never talks about Lucid. If they do, some interest (or lackthereof) is expressed and things quickly move on. Like in this forum, they do spit on the ground Teslas walk (or drive) on. I wouldn't call Tesla vs Rivian a rivalry either as I doubt Tesla fans really care much about what Rivian is doing (well, maybe now with the R2 incoming).

I see more Rivian thrashing here. I get it, it's a Lucid forum, there is a bias for sure, but I don't get it either. They are two different companies trying to do different things. I appreciate what both are doing. Don't see why Rivian is seen as an enemy when I think it should be an ally. Would be cool to see both companies host an event or something. Show some comradery in the EV space.

IMO, Lucid still feels like the underdog that has to prove itself despite achieving some great things. Or put another way, Android vs. Apple back in the early days. Eventually I'm sure the day will come where Rivian and Tesla will have to up their game due to Lucid, but I don't think that is happening today. Everyone knows Tesla, Rivian is finally starting to get some recognition...Lucid is still mostly unknown to the average consumer.

 

[borski]

For example, in the Sapphire trim, the motors are running at 1000 Hz, which is way faster than what a traditional supplier like Bosch would run

Not just Sapphire; it was originally developed for the Sapphire as it was first vehicle where the Bosch system truly couldn’t keep up, but it is also in Gravity and the Pure RWD. It’s my understanding it will eventually be brought to the T/GT/DE, but it isn’t there yet. The hardware is, to be clear - but they’d need significant testing, etc., and it hasn’t been deemed as high of a priority (I’m guessing) since the Bosch system for those was “good enough”

However, if you ever notice your Air *feeling* like it’s accelerating briefly on slick pavement (when it loses traction), your Bosch TCS is to blame. Torque commands diminish drastically to make sure traction is recovered to permit steering inputs. In acceleration, the torque reapply happens quite quickly, but in regen, the torque reapply takes a longer time, because the Bosch system was developed for combustion engine vehicles which don’t have regen.

 

[borski]

I see more Rivian thrashing here. I get it, it's a Lucid forum, there is a bias for sure, but I don't get it either. They are two different companies trying to do different things. I appreciate what both are doing. Don't see why Rivian is seen as an enemy when I think it should be an ally.

I also don’t get it and wish it happened less.

Would be cool to see both companies host an event or something. Show some comradery in the EV space.

We’ve had a meetup once or twice in the past but nothing major. I agree this would be neat.

 

[gaskiller]

Yes, the Lucid is more efficient over Rivian, but not as much as Lucid claims. On paper, the AGT is ~2X more efficient than the R1S.

On my 780 mile road trips (Sausalito to Phoenix I-5/I10) which I drive 2X to 3X per year in my R1S and AGT, I get ~3.5mi/kWh on my AGT and ~2.5 mi/kWh on my R1S. Depending on how you pivot the data, the AGT is ~30% more efficient. Rivian often meet/exceed the rated efficiency whilst Lucid persistently missed its claim efficiency by ~25%.

So, if efficiency is the determining factor, Lucid is better (but not as good as they claimed).

What I’m saying is most people just want efficiency reading to look at, most don’t care about specific energy usage of various devices on the car

 

[socktucker]

Rivian vs Lucid is literally Trucks vs Cars I have no idea how people are making this comparison