Vampire Drain

[dawktah LucidGT]

I think phone proximity have something to do with it. I noticed that when I was in the EU for three weeks, the car drained 1% a day. When I’m home, it drains about 4% a day. The key fob was in the same place, so that wasn’t a factor.

It’s hard to have it both ways: You want the car to wake up when you approach it with your phone but you don’t want it to wake up and consume battery power. If only the Lucid had software sophisticated enough to know what I was thinking. I’m sure that’ll be in the next OTA.

My fob is clearly far enough away

It would be nice to have it both ways. Other companies have figured it out. It’s almost certainly a software and battery management issue. It should be fixed in the future.

If it’s not then perhaps Lucid made a deal with the devil to get their range. That battery pack has to stay cool somehow.

Idle batteries heat up? AC can be turned off, i.e. there are these pesky things called light switches.

Actually, all I want is for it to keep it's range when it's plugged in. I have a Tesla Model S #895 from 2012 and that's exactly what it does.

ditto...

Funny(maybe not so funny) is that there is less drain unplugged than plugged in. Also important to keep the keys away and phones away. Like we calculated in another thread, you can get 0.6% drain a day under ideal conditions (garaged weather less than 80 higher than 60).

I have not set up my phone as a mobile key, have drain

How many of you guys having issues with vampire drain are using the mobile key? I'd suggest using the fob exclusively for a week and see the difference.

Having drain without

 

[joec]

That makes sense to me (engineer) and a fixable software problem. Using a mobile phone an example, if you kept waking it, enabling notifications, and bringing detectable accessories near it, it would drain the living Hell out of it.

Yes, I am convinced this is a software problem that can be fixed. Given the car boots up from scratch after it's been asleep for more than 15 minutes, if it's waking a lot, that could be draining quite a bit of battery.

Not necessarily the fob or your phone waking the car, either. If it's plugged in, a message from the charger might be causing a complete reboot as well. Which is not good.

Hoping the "big" software update that improves start up times (i.e. includes a true "deep sleep" mode) will also solve this issue, since the car will simply wake from a cached state, then go right back to bed, rather than completely rebooting each time.

I'm also concerned the fans are running more than they might need to. But that's also likely a software fix.

 

[hydbob]

My fob is clearly far enough away



Idle batteries heat up? AC can be turned off, i.e. there are these pesky things called light switches.



ditto...


I have not set up my phone as a mobile key, have drain



Having drain without

I noticed drain too, even with fob between walls. It drastically improved after getting those faraday pouches we discussed earlier.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I noticed drain too, even with fob between walls. It drastically improved after getting those faraday pouches we discussed earlier.

I may snag a faraday pouch but my fobs are multiple walls and about 52' away.

 

[Demosthenes]

I had contacted Customer care with a bunch of related charging, drain, efficiency questions after my last charge over the weekend. My numbers weren’t matching the car trip information ones. Since my questions were more involved, they escalated it up and actually scheduled someone to come out, presumably to pull car data and compare notes with me. I figured it could all be done remotely, but guess not. Anyway, that is definitely a question I will ask when they are here. ill post what I hear. I agree that 3-4% battery loss, or up to about 4.5 kWh is a lot of drain and it would make sense to pull from the charger instead of the car. I am also wanting to understand about a 20% difference in what I calculate the car should have received and what the car says it consumed.

Guess that is what happens when a scientist buys the car. Want to understand what is going on with a lot more than hand waving. Probably what was driving my DA nuts when I was asking what “specifically” was causing the delivery delay.

Looking forward to your findings!

 

[Slam08]

Hoping the "big" software update that improves start up times (i.e. includes a true "deep sleep" mode) will also solve this issue, since the car will simply wake from a cached state, then go right back to bed, rather than completely rebooting each time.

I'm also concerned the fans are running more than they might need to. But that's also likely a software fix.

I’m worried that to try and improve start up times they would make the car wake easier to get more of a head start before the person enters the vehicle!

There always a good compromise somewhere in between.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Has anyone put any $$$ behind how much power is being used to have the car complete charge and then need to be recharged again? I get the feeling plugging it up everyday as recommended is something I may skip until this is figured out.

 

[CLTGT]

OK, I have not really had the opportunity to drive too much since delivery, just one trip out to dinner. I have started to keep a log though. My car had 86% SOC mid-day yesterday and now has 85% this morning. It was "woken up" at least three times that I know of. It is not plugged in. From what I can tell, it does not "wake up" until I open the door to the garage and start down the steps. Handles present themselves before I reach the bottom of the five steps. I have been only using my phone as a key. The DA told me that was what they recommended. He also said to keep the Fobs away from each other as they do talk to each other and that was why, they think, the batteries on the Fobs were draining quickly. My garage stays between 80 and 85 degrees.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Has anyone put any $$$ behind how much power is being used to have the car complete charge and then need to be recharged again? I get the feeling plugging it up everyday as recommended is something I may skip until this is figured out.

I see up to a 25% transmission loss during a home charging session. In other words, for every three KWh added to the battery, another kWh is being lost to heat and BMS fans or other vampire drain. Still cheaper than gas.

i still have a lot of questions to be answered about the charging and my efficiency calculations vs. the car’s. Spoke at length to a customer service guy yesterday and he was going to talk to the engineers. I keep getting a YMMV answer about driving habits, speed, weather, road conditions, AC use, etc. I am having to explain that I know all about things that can effect range. That is not my question. My question is about the difference in the car’s kWh used numbers and mine, of which I see I put about 22% more kWh back into the car than the car says it used since the last charge. I don’t think I am ever going to get an answer because it’s proprietary. Anyways, my cumulative numbers are:

Car says 91 kWh used for an efficiency of 3.2 miles/kWh
My “as received” calculation says 111kWh for an efficiency of 2.62 miles per kWh
My ”as delivered“ number is 124 kWh for an efficiency of 2.34 miles per kWh

The only number that I know is correct would be the “as delivered.” That is the amount of power my ChargePoint EVSE has sent to the car and I can use that number to tell me exactly how much it costs me in electricity to drive the car.

I calculate the ‘as received” using battery percentage. If my car was at 20% and I charged to 80%, then it received 60% of the battery or 67.2kWh. The odometer miles it took to go from 80% to 20% divided by that 67.2 kWh to go back to 80% gives me a sense for the true range after vampire losses. My cumulative numbers: 290 miles/110.9 kWh = 2.62 miles / kWh. That efficiency for the 112 kWh battery size says my true actual range with vampire losses Is 2.62*112 = 293 miles.

I don’t know WHAT? the car calculates. I now assume that it is some “only while the car is moving” number. So if one were to charge to 100%, immediately drive on a long trip for the day, I would see 3.2*112 = 358 miles in driving range. Therefore, there is 358 - 293 = 65 miles Loss due to vampire drain. That would equate to 65/358 = ~18% loss from the BMS fans or whatever else the car is doing while it is sitting in my garage. I do know that the car consumes 3-4% of the battery after every charge within a few hours while sitting in the garage.

Again, I have lots of questions but not a lot of answers yet to get a handle for real world range and efficiency. Will post more data as I have it. Just have not taken any trips yet to get a better feel about vampire drain.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I have been only using my phone as a key. The DA told me that was what they recommended. He also said to keep the Fobs away from each other as they do talk to each other and that was why, they think, the batteries on the Fobs were draining quickly. My garage stays between 80 and 85 degrees.

2 fobs are supposed to be away from each other???

 

[MPawelek]

2 fobs are supposed to be away from each other???

I will be keeping one fob at home locked in a lead lined box and the other 6 miles away in a deposit box at our bank.

 

[Sandvinsd]

2 fobs are supposed to be away from each other???

It sounds like to improve the fob battery life. I keep them in Faraday pouches, so should be ok.

 

[MPawelek]

It sounds like to improve the fob battery life. I keep them in Faraday pouches, so should be ok.

Why are these so different from other brands? I haven’t changed any batteries in my Ford, Cadillac or MB fobs in three years….

 

[Sandvinsd]

Why are these so different from other brands? I haven’t changed any batteries in my Ford, Cadillac or MB fobs in three years….

Good question. Our Sienna and Leaf batteries last at least 2 years.

 

[Sam6062]

Once it hits the charge limit (80%, 100% or whatever the car is set to charge to) it shuts off. Then will slowly loos charge over about 3 hours. I presume it is the BMS system Consuming power. It is not pulling from the EVSE, but rather the car. That circuit is closed once the car reaches full charge.

in three home charging sessions, it has charged to 80% then over the course of about 3 hours, it consumes 3-4% so my first drive after charging is at 76 or 77%. What you see is exactly what I do.

Anytime I don’t charge, the power consumption overnight is minimal, 1kWh or less for the entire night.

That is what people even non Licid have reported that charging at 350 stations created a lot more battery drain vs 150 or Home Chargers. I may have posted it here but the Volkswagen D.4 owner claimed if he charges at a 350 charger his Vampire drain lasts a week even when he has subsequently charged at home.

 

[Sam6062]

Why are these so different from other brands? I haven’t changed any batteries in my Ford, Cadillac or MB fobs in three years….

True, Mine was in my Farraday pouch and it still drained very fast. Will be spending 50$ a
Month on batteries . Fortunately the mobile guy replaced it.

Maybe they should give us 3 years of free key fob battery replacement as well.

 

[Coltonw011]

Why are these so different from other brands? I haven’t changed any batteries in my Ford, Cadillac or MB fobs in three years….

Had the car for 2 months, will be my 3rd battery when I replace it today. I’ll try storing the fobs apart as this is new info for me haha

 

[Sandvinsd]

That is what people even non Licid have reported that charging at 350 stations created a lot more battery drain vs 150 or Home Chargers. I may have posted it here but the Volkswagen D.4 owner claimed if he charges at a 350 charger his Vampire drain lasts a week even when he has subsequently charged at home.

My charging is at home and not L3. Don’t have vampire drain on the Leaf.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Why are these so different from other brands? I haven’t changed any batteries in my Ford, Cadillac or MB fobs in three years….

BLE

That is what people even non Licid have reported that charging at 350 stations created a lot more battery drain vs 150 or Home Chargers. I may have posted it here but the Volkswagen D.4 owner claimed if he charges at a 350 charger his Vampire drain lasts a week even when he has subsequently charged at home.

I have been out of town for the last two weekends in a row and have used EA stations. I am going out of town again but this time I'll charge to 100% at home and see if I can get back home without a charge. Parking garage across the street from hotel has L2 charging, push come to shove.

 

[Adnillien]

I see up to a 25% transmission loss during a home charging session. In other words, for every three KWh added to the battery, another kWh is being lost to heat and BMS fans or other vampire drain. Still cheaper than gas.

i still have a lot of questions to be answered about the charging and my efficiency calculations vs. the car’s. Spoke at length to a customer service guy yesterday and he was going to talk to the engineers. I keep getting a YMMV answer about driving habits, speed, weather, road conditions, AC use, etc. I am having to explain that I know all about things that can effect range. That is not my question. My question is about the difference in the car’s kWh used numbers and mine, of which I see I put about 22% more kWh back into the car than the car says it used since the last charge. I don’t think I am ever going to get an answer because it’s proprietary. Anyways, my cumulative numbers are:

Car says 91 kWh used for an efficiency of 3.2 miles/kWh
My “as received” calculation says 111kWh for an efficiency of 2.62 miles per kWh
My ”as delivered“ number is 124 kWh for an efficiency of 2.34 miles per kWh

The only number that I know is correct would be the “as delivered.” That is the amount of power my ChargePoint EVSE has sent to the car and I can use that number to tell me exactly how much it costs me in electricity to drive the car.

I calculate the ‘as received” using battery percentage. If my car was at 20% and I charged to 80%, then it received 60% of the battery or 67.2kWh. The odometer miles it took to go from 80% to 20% divided by that 67.2 kWh to go back to 80% gives me a sense for the true range after vampire losses. My cumulative numbers: 290 miles/110.9 kWh = 2.62 miles / kWh. That efficiency for the 112 kWh battery size says my true actual range with vampire losses Is 2.62*112 = 293 miles.

I don’t know WHAT? the car calculates. I now assume that it is some “only while the car is moving” number. So if one were to charge to 100%, immediately drive on a long trip for the day, I would see 3.2*112 = 358 miles in driving range. Therefore, there is 358 - 293 = 65 miles Loss due to vampire drain. That would equate to 65/358 = ~18% loss from the BMS fans or whatever else the car is doing while it is sitting in my garage. I do know that the car consumes 3-4% of the battery after every charge within a few hours while sitting in the garage.

Again, I have lots of questions but not a lot of answers yet to get a handle for real world range and efficiency. Will post more data as I have it. Just have not taken any trips yet to get a better feel about vampire drain.

Fortunately the EPA filings give some information on Level 2 charging efficiency. Both GT and DE show about 85% charging efficiency or 15% loss. I am sure this is under ideal conditions.