Vampire Drain Analysis

[joec]

My wife's AMG EQS has almost no vampire drain. It does have a "Start" button that keeps most systems off until pressed so maybe that is why.

I do think Lucid could be more judicious about which systems wake up before pressing the brake pedal. But they are likely hamstrung at the moment by their system stack depending on a certain order of items waking. So right now, it's all or nothing whenever you want to talk to the car at all. But there's likely nothing stopping them from optimizing that. Other than priorities.

This would likely bring performance gains for things like communicating with the app. Opening the frunk via shortcuts, etc. And maybe even fob performance. Plus the battery benefits.

No need for a start button.

 

[EVCar]

My wife's AMG EQS has almost no vampire drain. It does have a "Start" button that keeps most systems off until pressed so maybe that is why.

It’s not “almost no vampire drain.” It is no drain at all, as reflected by the unchanged SoC.
But that’s the small thing for me. My whine today is the number of days the Lucid is in for service, compared to the EQS. Maybe I have a freak Air.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

People who want no vampire drain, how do you expect cars to improve without data?

I believe part of the issue is the 12V battery maintenance that is required. I don't have data that shows that each wake up is due to the fact that the 12v battery needs a top up, but if this were for data upload only, there is no need to upload data if the vehicle hasn't moved. I can see that the data upload could be limited to once a day in these scenarios.

 

[WhoDey]

Our Pure lost 2% last night parked in the garage with minimal “wake ups”. I asked Customer Care about it and was told that it’s not uncommon to see a 2-3% drop overnight, especially during colder weather. Apparently the car regulates itself to keep the battery around 70°F…

 

[Tesla2.0]

Here was my Vampire drain test #1

Vampire Drain Analysis

I see people here often complain about vampire drain for Lucid Air being unforgivable. So I did a metric and park both Lucid Air and Rivian R1S LE side by side in the same garage. Temperature factor was ruled out of equation, here are the result after I came back from my cruise trip 17 days...

lucidowners.com

Here was my Vampire drain test #2

Vampire Drain Analysis

Can we compile a list of vampire drain best practices preventative measures? Perhaps: 1. Turn off home Wi Fi connection overnight. 2. Turn off Bluetooth overnight. 3. Store key fobs away from vehicle. 4. Turn off phone app. Or maybe these are counter-productive and best to just live with it...

lucidowners.com

 

[Tesla2.0]

Here is Vampire drain test #3 (Latest)
11 days Vampire drain

Since summer of 2023 to Christmas of 2023, all 3 EVs had numerous OTA updates in 6 months. After 11 days of refrain from checking car status from mobile apps, here are the LATEST RESULTS…

Lucid AirGT 79% -> 74%
Rivian R1S QuadM 82% -> 77%
Polestar PS2 LR 89% -> 89%

Air GT lost 5%
112kWhx-5% = -5.6 kWh

R1S lost 5%
135kWhx-5% = -6.75 kWh

Polestar 2 lost 0%
78kWhx-0% = -0 kWh

Relative energy loss
Lucid Air GT=-5.6kWh/99.68kWh= -5.6%
Rivian R1S =-6.75kWh/110.7kWh= -6.0%
Polestar 2 LR=-0 kWh/69.42kWh= -0%

VERDICT:
Least drain winner: Polestar2
Most OTA improvement to drainage: R1S

Lucid Air GT maintained the same drainage rate.

 

[dscafetta]

I see people here often complain about vampire drain for Lucid Air being unforgivable. So I did a metric and park both Lucid Air and Rivian R1S LE side by side in the same garage. Temperature factor was ruled out of equation, here are the result after I came back from my cruise trip 17 days later.

On the day of trip:View attachment 10124View attachment 10125

Lucid was at 90% SOC, Rivian was at 81% SOC. I had a mini trip where I must charge Air to higher SOC and I didnot get chance to drain down from 90% before my cruise trip.

The following is what happened after I returned in 17 days. Both Lucid and Rivian paged me OTA Update notification, I happened to check both mobile app more frequently than usual as result of new OTA update notification.

View attachment 10123View attachment 10122

Lucid AGT went from 90% to 83% in 17 days with multiple remote wake up. (1 - (83/90) = 7.8% relative energy loss.

Rivian R1S LE went from 81% to 55% in 17 days with fewer multiple remote wake up. (1 - 55/83) = 32.1% relative energy loss.

Granted Rivian has GearGuard turned on for motion sensor recording, but there wasn’t any triggered event in 17 days having no video clip recorded.

CONCLUSION:
Losing charge when not even driving is normal, it’s just like your tablet and smart phone even if you put in airplane mode. So don’t freak out for energy leak.

Nice experiment. However, you likely picked the worst draining vehicle to compare against. FWIW... Anecdotally, I ask everyone I meet at the charging stations how much they lose overnight and Mercedes and Porsche owner almost always say zero.

Lastly, just because some other vehicle may lose more, that does not solve the problem or make it any better!

 

[DeaneG]

Relative energy loss
Lucid Air GT=-5.6kWh/99.68kWh= -5.6%
Rivian R1S =-6.75kWh/110.7kWh= -6.0%
Polestar 2 LR=-0 kWh/69.42kWh= -0%

Was your garage cold? I'm wondering because my Air lost about 0.25% per day on an 12-day absence (3% over 12 days) in the summer. I though that was quite reasonable.
Our Volvo, similar to your Polestar, does not have any phantom drain.

 

[dscafetta]

WOW, 2 more vehicles that have no phantom drain! Makes Lucid seem even more out of touch with what people want...

 

[Bobby]

WOW, 2 more vehicles that have no phantom drain! Makes Lucid seem even more out of touch with what people want...

Odd conclusion.

 

[Lucken]

WOW, 2 more vehicles that have no phantom drain! Makes Lucid seem even more out of touch with what people want...

Say what? So people prioritize their shopping for EVs based on phantom drain? Who knew?

 

[Knucklehead]

WOW, 2 more vehicles that have no phantom drain! Makes Lucid seem even more out of touch with what people want...

My Mustang Mach-e has zero vampire drain also. I think all of the legacy car makers are similar in this respect. It is the start ups that seem to have a problem with it. From what I have read, Tesla has always had it but they have managed to make significant improvements over the years.

 

[DeaneG]

WOW, 2 more vehicles that have no phantom drain! Makes Lucid seem even more out of touch with what people want...

The Polestar 2 and my Volvo XC40 share the same electronics. They're cousins. I'm OK with 0.25% per day - I think that's roughly similar to my old Model 3.

 

[xponents]

WOW, 2 more vehicles that have no phantom drain! Makes Lucid seem even more out of touch with what people want...

Lol

 

[hydbob]

My Mustang Mach-e has zero vampire drain also. I think all of the legacy car makers are similar in this respect. It is the start ups that seem to have a problem with it. From what I have read, Tesla has always had it but they have managed to make significant improvements over the years.

Interesting that the companies that do OTA and have a lot of data sharing with their vehicles have phantom drain vs. the legacy manufacturers who don't. I'll take my phantom drain for data sharing and improved ADAS and OTA.

 

[Knucklehead]

Say what? So people prioritize their shopping for EVs based on phantom drain? Who knew?

Most people don't even know it can be an issue to look out for. I think the normal person assumes the battery will stay fully charged unless they drive the vehicle. My car uses the LVB to handle walk up unlocking, PaaK and other features. It is something the legacy car companies got right, IMO.

Some Rivians have been reported to lose up to 8% per day, sitting there. Some people don't even use that much electricity at their home during the same time period. Small home, of course, but still it is a lot of power for the car to just be sitting there doing nothing.

The vampire drain in the Lucid seems manageable, but it should be zero. I don't want to come back from a trip, get in my car at the airport, and find out I no longer have enough range to make it home. Or worse yet, not enough range to make it to a charger.

 

[Bobby]

Most people don't even know it can be an issue to look out for. I think the normal person assumes the battery will stay fully charged unless they drive the vehicle. My car uses the LVB to handle walk up unlocking, PaaK and other features. It is something the legacy car companies got right, IMO.

Some Rivians have been reported to lose up to 8% per day, sitting there. Some people don't even use that much electricity at their home during the same time period. Small home, of course, but still it is a lot of power for the car to just be sitting there doing nothing.

The vampire drain in the Lucid seems manageable, but it should be zero. I don't want to come back from a trip, get in my car at the airport, and find out I no longer have enough range to make it home. Or worse yet, not enough range to make it to a charger.

At 1/4% per day you can take a trip for hundreds of days and not worry.

 

[Knucklehead]

Interesting that the companies that do OTA and have a lot of data sharing with their vehicles have phantom drain vs. the legacy manufacturers who don't. I'll take my phantom drain for data sharing and improved ADAS and OTA.

That is partly true. I have recived quite a lot of OTA updates since I purchased my car. And while right now Ford is still finalizing their official API, unofficially people are able to connect to their cars and get a ton of data from it. I can lock/unlock my car remotely, or start it remotely using the FordPass app on my phone.

There might be some connectivity benefits from the vampire drain, but they seem minor to me. Probably Rivian's Gear Gaurd uses more juice than the LVB can support, but if you turn it off the vampire drain is still there.

In a side note I can also connect to my car with an OBDII scanner and get even more data. The port is not required for BEVs but it works on my car, and probably other legacy ones also.

 

[Knucklehead]

At 1/4% per day you can take a trip for hundreds of days and not worry.

Agreed. That is definitely manageable.

 

[APSenec]

At 1/4% per day you can take a trip for hundreds of days and not worry.

Agreed. This is a fabricated “issue”. I see no impact to usability.