[URGENT] $7500 credit for current reservation holders

[Bus Driver]

That’s correct. They never had LiDAR. Remember Elon’s famous statement about LiDAR being a “fool’s errand”?

This. Right here. It’s exactly what that biggest fool of them all, Elon Musk, said. What a turdball.

 

[Bobby]

I don’t understand why aren’t there more posts or backlash about the current situation. Any updates on the irs definition of valid orders?

What kind of posts or backlash do you expect? Currently, the IRS guidance is unclear. I, for one, will take the $7500 on my taxes and hope for the best. Worst case scenario, it won’t work. This is not a deciding factor on the car for me, but it wouldn’t mind having the money!

 

[bobofat]

I don’t understand why aren’t there more posts or backlash about the current situation. Any updates on the irs definition of valid orders?

What situation. Consult a tax professional. Lucid has no control over these rules, nor does Telsa, Rivian, Ford, Volkswagon, Polestar, Hyuandai, etc. Every EV manufacturer is in the same boat.

 

[changinator]

What kind of posts or backlash do you expect? Currently, the IRS guidance is unclear. I, for one, will take the $7500 on my taxes and hope for the best. Worst case scenario, it won’t work. This is not a deciding factor on the car for me, but it wouldn’t mind having the money!

What situation. Consult a tax professional. Lucid has no control over these rules, nor does Telsa, Rivian, Ford, Volkswagon, Polestar, Hyuandai, etc. Every EV manufacturer is in the same boat.

You both have AGTs, you're both already guaranteed the old tax incentive, so y'all don't have to worry about getting it. Also presumptively if you could afford the AGT, the tax incentive is relatively less significant to you than a prospective Pure or even Touring customer. According to this poll here, a significant amount of prospective Pure/Touring customers are on the fence with moving forward with their reservations based on whether they will receive the tax incentive or not:

Poll: Lucid Air Touring/Pure Reservation Holders, if the new EV tax bill passes, would you reconsider your reservation?

Based on the current EV tax incentive, all Lucid Air trims qualifies for a $7,500 tax credit (until 200,000 vehicles sold.) However, if the new EV tax bill passes as is, all Lucid Airs would NOT qualify for any tax credit. Most Lucid Air Touring/Pure reservation holders are likely more heavily...

lucidowners.com

Starting August 10, 2022, many Pure/Touring reservation holders "locked in' their orders by converting their orders to "written binding orders" in hopes of qualifying for the old tax incentive according to the Transition Rule under the IRA, even if they technically receive their cars next year or so. Under the Transition Rule, EVs that are entered into a written binding contract before December 31, 2022 (or before August 16, 2022 if built outside of the Americas) qualify for the old tax incentive even if delivered after December 31, 2022. However, the situation is what actually qualifies as a "written binding contract"?

According to my CPA, it's all still up in the air as the IRA is still pending on clarifications and definitions by the Department of Treasury and IRS.

Per IRS statement on August 16, the "What Is a Written Binding Contract?" was vague, and if this was the only guidance, NONE of the "locked in" orders by reservation holders of Lucid, Rivian, or Fisker would qualify. However, the IRS continued with "the Internal Revenue Service and the Department of the Treasury will post information and request comments from the public on various existing and new tax credit incentives in the coming weeks and months."

On October 5, IRS released Notice 2022-46, requesting comments on IRA amendments. Deadline for comments is November 4.

The Rivian subreddit posted about this notice with the exact same concern as the Lucid Pure/Touring reservation holders:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/xwn89r

So for those reservation holders who are hoping for the tax incentive, provide your feedback to IRS on Notice 2022-46.

 

[bobofat]

a significant amount of prospective Pure/Touring customers are on the fence with moving forward with their reservations based on whether they will receive the tax incentive or not:

So for those reservation holders who are hoping for the tax incentive, provide your feedback to IRS on Notice 2022-46.

Thank you for the info. For sure, reservation holders should provide the feedback to the IRS given they are taking open comments. If enough people make the argument that they have an order by way of deposit without VIN, then maybe the IRS can better define what a binding order is so that automakers and reservation holders will know if they qualify for the tax credit for the rest of 2022 regardless of when the car is actually delivered. I stand to benefit from the tax credit as I think all of us do.

I was just referring to the comment I responded to, about why there wasn't any more backlash on the forum. Raising hell on this forum for something that all people buying an EV would benefit from does no good. Raising hell, and leaving comments to the IRS is more effective and goes to the people that make the decisions, not the ones guessing on what it means.

Thank you for posting the resource to make it easier to find and I'll be sure to provide feedback to that Notice.

 

[Halodde]

Appreciate the updates from everyone. And, I think the ambiguity of both the law as written and unfortunately the questions posed are leading to additional confusion. Perfect example is when I first asked the my tax guy about it, he responded saying that "you get the tax credit in the year you get the car". Obviously, he didn't understand the question because I didn't phrase it clearly. He thought I was asking if I could get the credit this year if I didn't get my car until next year.

IMO, it doesn't matter what year I get the credit as long as I get it. Lucid seems to be of the opinion that there literally is no deadline on when you get your Air. If you confirmed your order by making your deposit non-refundable prior to the signing of the IRA (don't get me started on that misnomer), you will qualify for the tax credit in the year you get your car. This is potentially a huge roadblock because the IRS could feel very differently and essentially remove the tax credit at midnight on New Years. I'm not aware of any EV's that currently qualify for the full credit under the new rules.

Anyone have any other specific guidance from Lucid or their own tax professional?

PS- I want my TOURING THIS YEAR!!! LOL

 

[hydbob]

Appreciate the updates from everyone. And, I think the ambiguity of both the law as written and unfortunately the questions posed are leading to additional confusion. Perfect example is when I first asked the my tax guy about it, he responded saying that "you get the tax credit in the year you get the car". Obviously, he didn't understand the question because I didn't phrase it clearly. He thought I was asking if I could get the credit this year if I didn't get my car until next year.

IMO, it doesn't matter what year I get the credit as long as I get it. Lucid seems to be of the opinion that there literally is no deadline on when you get your Air. If you confirmed your order by making your deposit non-refundable prior to the signing of the IRA (don't get me started on that misnomer), you will qualify for the tax credit in the year you get your car. This is potentially a huge roadblock because the IRS could feel very differently and essentially remove the tax credit at midnight on New Years. I'm not aware of any EV's that currently qualify for the full credit under the new rules.

Anyone have any other specific guidance from Lucid or their own tax professional?

PS- I want my TOURING THIS YEAR!!! LOL

You won't get any guidance until the IRS issues their own guidance. Until then, everyone is just guessing.

 

[joec]

You both have AGTs, you're both already guaranteed the old tax incentive, so y'all don't have to worry about getting it. Also presumptively if you could afford the AGT, the tax incentive is relatively less significant to you than a prospective Pure or even Touring customer. According to this poll here, a significant amount of prospective Pure/Touring customers are on the fence with moving forward with their reservations based on whether they will receive the tax incentive or not:

Poll: Lucid Air Touring/Pure Reservation Holders, if the new EV tax bill passes, would you reconsider your reservation?

Based on the current EV tax incentive, all Lucid Air trims qualifies for a $7,500 tax credit (until 200,000 vehicles sold.) However, if the new EV tax bill passes as is, all Lucid Airs would NOT qualify for any tax credit. Most Lucid Air Touring/Pure reservation holders are likely more heavily...

lucidowners.com

Starting August 10, 2022, many Pure/Touring reservation holders "locked in' their orders by converting their orders to "written binding orders" in hopes of qualifying for the old tax incentive according to the Transition Rule under the IRA, even if they technically receive their cars next year or so. Under the Transition Rule, EVs that are entered into a written binding contract before December 31, 2022 (or before August 16, 2022 if built outside of the Americas) qualify for the old tax incentive even if delivered after December 31, 2022. However, the situation is what actually qualifies as a "written binding contract"?

According to my CPA, it's all still up in the air as the IRA is still pending on clarifications and definitions by the Department of Treasury and IRS.

Per IRS statement on August 16, the "What Is a Written Binding Contract?" was vague, and if this was the only guidance, NONE of the "locked in" orders by reservation holders of Lucid, Rivian, or Fisker would qualify. However, the IRS continued with "the Internal Revenue Service and the Department of the Treasury will post information and request comments from the public on various existing and new tax credit incentives in the coming weeks and months."

On October 5, IRS released Notice 2022-46, requesting comments on IRA amendments. Deadline for comments is November 4.

The Rivian subreddit posted about this notice with the exact same concern as the Lucid Pure/Touring reservation holders:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/xwn89r

So for those reservation holders who are hoping for the tax incentive, provide your feedback to IRS on Notice 2022-46.

I'm with your CPA on this one. But we really can't know until the IRS issues their final decision. Sucks. I've basically given up hope that the incentive will be available to us. That way, if I'm pleasantly surprised, all the better.

 

[Halodde]

Has the IRS said anything about their timeline for revised guidance?

 

[Shuasha]

Has the IRS said anything about their timeline for revised guidance?

IIRC, the window to submit feedback ends in early November. So some time after that.

 

[changinator]

Has the IRS said anything about their timeline for revised guidance?

IRS and the Department of Treasury technically has until December 31, 2022, since the rest of the requirements to qualify for EV tax credits of the IRA goes into full effect on January 1, 2023.

Deadline for citizens and companies to provide feedback is this November 4, 2022.

 

[Negan1000]

Here is the section from IRS:
Section 13401(l) of the IRA provides a transition rule for a taxpayer who
purchased or entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualified plug-in
electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in § 30D(d)(1) of the Code, as in effect on the
day before the date of enactment of the IRA (August 15, 2022)) after December 31,
2021 and before the date of enactment of the IRA (August 16, 2022), and placed such
vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of the IRA. The transition rule
provides that such a taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner as
the Secretary may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on
the day before the date of enactment of the IRA.
Submit comments at https://www.regulations.gov/commenton/IRS-2022-0020-0001/ by 11/4/22
If you provide the TBD documentation for your 2023 (year vehicle is delivered) tax returns, you get the tax credit.

 

[Halodde]

Here is the section from IRS:
Section 13401(l) of the IRA provides a transition rule for a taxpayer who
purchased or entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualified plug-in
electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in § 30D(d)(1) of the Code, as in effect on the
day before the date of enactment of the IRA (August 15, 2022)) after December 31,
2021 and before the date of enactment of the IRA (August 16, 2022), and placed such
vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of the IRA. The transition rule
provides that such a taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner as
the Secretary may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on
the day before the date of enactment of the IRA.
Submit comments at https://www.regulations.gov/commenton/IRS-2022-0020-0001/ by 11/4/22
If you provide the TBD documentation for your 2023 (year vehicle is delivered) tax returns, you get the tax credit.

That's how I read it too

 

[Mr_rhythm]

They're specifically looking for guidance on these things:

• Notice 2022-46 requests comments on credits for clean vehicles under § 30D. Notice 2022-46 asks stakeholders to answer a number of specific questions related to:
  • What factors and definitions should be considered to determine the place of extraction or processing of critical minerals and the value of those minerals;
  • How the guidance should define the components of a battery and determine the place of manufacture or assembly of battery components and the value of those components;
  • Whether guidance is needed to clarify the definition of “foreign entity of concern” and to the extent available, whether there is any existing regulatory or guidance frameworks for tracking whether manufactures are in compliance with the foreign entity of concern rules; and
  • Whether guidance is needed on the definition of “acquired,” “use,” and “lease.”

They're not asking for guidance on date placed into service for existing orders.

 

[HariK]

I just have so called binding agreement for pure and Fisker Ocean extreme before the cut off date for what it is worth. I expect to receive both of them in 23 and in 24 I will claim credit. If I don't get it I am fine with it. Not bothering to check with cpa.

 

[changinator]

I just have so called binding agreement for pure and Fisker Ocean extreme before the cut off date for what it is worth. I expect to receive both of them in 23 and in 24 I will claim credit. If I don't get it I am fine with it. Not bothering to check with cpa.

I think these belong to you

 

[mallig]

There is just a month for those hoping for delivery until all of this becomes mute as the IRA details will completely exclude any Air in service after 1/1/2023. This if directly from the law that was passed:

Part 4--Clean Vehicles
(Sec. 13401) The act modifies requirements for the refundable income tax credit for qualifying plug-in electric vehicles. The modified credit is $3,750 for any vehicle meeting certain critical minerals requirements and $3,750 for vehicles meeting certain battery component requirements. The maximum allowable credit remains $7,500 per vehicle. Vehicles eligible for the credit include those made by qualified U.S. manufacturers and excludes those manufactured or assembled by a hostile foreign entity.

The credit is not available to taxpayers whose modified adjusted gross income exceeds $150,000 ($300,000 for married couples filing jointly) The credit is not allowed for vehicles that have a manufacturer's suggested retail price in excess of $80,000 for vans, sport utility vehicles (SUVs), or pickup trucks, and $55,000 for other vehicles.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376

 

[gavram]

Can someone with tax expertise confirm that I'll need to owe the gov't at least $7500 after calculating my tax return in order to receive the full 2022 EV incentive (assuming Aug confirmed order & delivery before Jan)?

Last year I didn't owe on my taxes due to my level of withholding so I believe if this was the case again this year I wouldn't get anything back, but wanted to double check.

 

[DRWHO42]

Can someone with tax expertise confirm that I'll need to owe the gov't at least $7500 after calculating my tax return in order to receive the full 2022 EV incentive (assuming Aug confirmed order & delivery before Jan)?

Last year I didn't owe on my taxes due to my level of withholding so I believe if this was the case again this year I wouldn't get anything back, but wanted to double check.

I contacted my CPA recently and confirmed this based on his research but since the IDS rules have not been finalized I would advise staying in close contact with your CPAs for advice on what you can and should do.

 

[hydbob]

Can someone with tax expertise confirm that I'll need to owe the gov't at least $7500 after calculating my tax return in order to receive the full 2022 EV incentive (assuming Aug confirmed order & delivery before Jan)?

Last year I didn't owe on my taxes due to my level of withholding so I believe if this was the case again this year I wouldn't get anything back, but wanted to double check.

The credit in its current form requires you to have a tax liability (you owe the government taxes) of at least 7500 claim the credit. It's not a deduction.