Time to be honest and tell the truth

[borski]

Can only say that on our first shakedown cruise after delivery, was in exactly that same situation- country road, no traffic, car ahead was doing about 60. While driving in Smooth mode, initiated lane change, punched it, and zoomed past the car and back into my lane. Never fully floored the pedal, but when I looked down, we were doing 117. No effort, no delay, and there was a lot more where that came from.

Ain’t it fun?

 

[thecodingart]

Ain’t it fun?

This car definitely has a far smaller slowdown curve to acceleration than the competition and it is darn awesome.

 

[SDHacker]

Can only say that on our first shakedown cruise after delivery, was in exactly that same situation- country road, no traffic, car ahead was doing about 60. While driving in Smooth mode, initiated lane change, punched it, and zoomed past the car and back into my lane. Never fully floored the pedal, but when I looked down, we were doing 117. No effort, no delay, and there was a lot more where that came from.

GT 819 HP version:

Performance​

45 - 65 mph	1.2 s
0 - 30 mph	1.3 s
0 - 40 mph	1.8 s
0 - 50 mph	2.4 s
0 - 60 mph	3.0 s
0 - 70 mph	3.7 s
0 - 80 mph	4.4 s
0 - 90 mph	5.2 s
0 - 100 mph	6.2 s
1/4 mile	10.8 s @ 130.1 mph

So 60 to 80 is 1.4 seconds. Guessing it takes a little longer going from steady 60 to 80 versus accelerating through 60 to get to 80 but it sure feels like I blink and I'm there.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Look. Many ICE vehicles meet and exceed their EPA mileage rating. After doing this for 50 years the EPA has figured it out for ICE’s. My BMW 530 ICE exceeds city and highway EPA estimates by 10% city and 20% highway - going 75 mph.

I suspect EV efficiency is highly impacted by driving style, (e.g., technique with regen braking, top speed, acceleration), terrain, and HVAC. HVAC alone can be a 20% drain on efficiency. Low tire pressure another 7-8%.

You would expect the Lucid Air to be close to the Tesla M3 in terms of efficiency. The Lucid should be a tiny bit better because of better aerodynamics which matter at highway speeds.

If you drive over 75 mph and use the HVAC you will not get the EPA efficiency numbers as they currently exist.

I am looking forward to my AT delivery in the next 4-6 months. So everything in my post is theoretical but from a former automotive engineer.

 

[Bill55]

Look. Many ICE vehicles meet and exceed their EPA mileage rating. After doing this for 50 years the EPA has figured it out for ICE’s. My BMW 530 ICE exceeds city and highway EPA estimates by 10% city and 20% highway - going 75 mph.

I suspect EV efficiency is highly impacted by driving style, (e.g., technique with regen braking, top speed, acceleration), terrain, and HVAC. HVAC alone can be a 20% drain on efficiency. Low tire pressure another 7-8%.

You would expect the Lucid Air to be close to the Tesla M3 in terms of efficiency. The Lucid should be a tiny bit better because of better aerodynamics which matter at highway speeds.

If you drive over 75 mph and use the HVAC you will not get the EPA efficiency numbers as they currently exist.

I am looking forward to my AT delivery in the next 4-6 months. So everything in my post is theoretical but from a former automotive engineer.

Unfortunately the industry thinks people are not smart enough to go from Miles Per Gallon to Miles per killoWatt hour. So it's total miles and charging in miles per minute / hour. Which is senseless. We are paying for energy in kWh and the car is getting some number of miles per kWh. If your in an Air and a EV Hummer is next to you, you both can be charging at 150kW, but you are not getting the same number of miles in 20 minutes, you are getting 50 kWhs in that time frame. Will be same when the Lucid Gravity starts shipping, which will not be as efficient as the air. Presenting in miles is useful in the car, but only if the car is using your average over the last 25/50 miles to calculate, which Lucid has not been doing. Unless 2.0.24 made a change.

 

[Sterling]

The estimated range is soo wrong it’s laughable. For my average kWh/mi I’m rated 2.9. It still gives me a 400+ mile range estimate.. ignoring the clearly incorrect math there, running my battery from 100-2% on quiet a few tests/occasions with my 21” wheels, my actual range is around 320 miles and is definitely slightly under my previous 580 EQS. I’m convinced that others reporting higher ranges in the 400+ have something in their area that makes the situation hyper conditional on driving habits and location. With that noted, the only prior EV I’ve owned this off the estimate mark was my Model S.

All the independent reviews have put this case to rest - your subjective experience does mean incorrect math by Lucid. Sounds like you're completely avoiding responsibility of your own driving habits/conditions and just want to blame something besides yourself

 

[Bill55]

All the independent reviews have put this case to rest - your subjective experience does mean incorrect math by Lucid. Sounds like you're completely avoiding responsibility of your own driving habits/conditions and just want to blame something besides yourself

Someone having a car for a few days to test, I think saying it puts it to rest is a little much. I have 13.5k miles and I am at about 2.95 mkWh. I’m not dissatisfied with this result. I have an 1111hp car and can get 350 miles or more on a charge. I have tried setting cruise at 75mph and haven’t gotten anything close to the estimated range the Air shows. Would be nice for Lucid to provide estimates based on use over the last 25 miles vs optimum.

 

[SDHacker]

All the independent reviews have put this case to rest - your subjective experience does mean incorrect math by Lucid. Sounds like you're completely avoiding responsibility of your own driving habits/conditions and just want to blame something besides yourself

The problem isn't with the math - it's what the numbers are based on. Lucid simply multiplies the SOC by the EPA efficiency rating providing a range number that isn't realistic for any given driver. Instead of adjusting the range to the driver's history or current consumption rate, Lucid blindly maintains the range using the EPA rate...which is why I display the SOC rather than miles so I can do my own realistic math.

 

[HariK]

Before initiating this thread did the original poster look at how epa testing is done? https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/18/how-does-epa-calculate-electric-car-range/
If you see a graph, the max speed is 60mph in that test. Average is much less. Question to ask is how close are you driving vs the epa test. My guess is not even close. Just discount 25% to be realistic and just as we would never drive ice cars to zero but probably fill at 20%, you would have to do the same. In reality if you look at how typical evs charge at high kw at 0 charge and slow down as you get closer to 80%, you will realize that the sweet spot to charge would be 40% or so to 70 to 80% and keep going on a long distance trip. There is a ton of info on this topic you can search for. FYI in base model Lucid 410 mile range take 25% off and assume 300 miles is 100%. You can start with 100%. Drive 150 miles and take a 20 min break. On a so called 150kw charger you will charge to 80% or close. That is about 100 miles. You can do your own math.

 

[Bill55]

Range is best at a high state of charge. If you are always starting at 80% or lower you miles per kWh will be lower. If you drive the car down to less than 40% driving 90mph and think you are going to change your average miles per kWh significantly by then setting the cruise at 60mph you are wrong. EV’s miles per kWh vary. State of charge, temperature, have an impact. An ice car gets about same mpg at a full tank or a 1/4 tank and temperature is much less of a factor. Not so for an EV.

 

[thecodingart]

All the independent reviews have put this case to rest - your subjective experience does mean incorrect math by Lucid. Sounds like you're completely avoiding responsibility of your own driving habits/conditions and just want to blame something besides yourself

Dude, no…

 

[digiboxer]

Before initiating this thread did the original poster look at how epa testing is done? https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/18/how-does-epa-calculate-electric-car-range/
If you see a graph, the max speed is 60mph in that test. Average is much less. Question to ask is how close are you driving vs the epa test. My guess is not even close. Just discount 25% to be realistic and just as we would never drive ice cars to zero but probably fill at 20%, you would have to do the same. In reality if you look at how typical evs charge at high kw at 0 charge and slow down as you get closer to 80%, you will realize that the sweet spot to charge would be 40% or so to 70 to 80% and keep going on a long distance trip. There is a ton of info on this topic you can search for. FYI in base model Lucid 410 mile range take 25% off and assume 300 miles is 100%. You can start with 100%. Drive 150 miles and take a 20 min break. On a so called 150kw charger you will charge to 80% or close. That is about 100 miles. You can do your own math.

About 90% (?) of what the EPA actually does ($12B annual budget, btw) is largely unknown to the average American (and maybe even to the un-average ones who buy Lucids.) One of the few useful things they could do--after spending god-knows-how-much studying--is give us useful data to inform our decision to buy the second most expensive asset most Americans buy.

Instead, after years and untold millions, EPA is off by 30-40%. Think about it--how many of us here, on an important career assignment/deal could have been off 30% and still be here today, able to buy a Lucid?

Why do they undertake this when there conclusions are worthless?

BTW, this isn't a knock on Lucid---can't blame them for hiding in the EPA shade just like their competitors.

 

[Slam08]

About 90% (?) of what the EPA actually does ($12B annual budget, btw) is largely unknown to the average American (and maybe even to the un-average ones who buy Lucids.) One of the few useful things they could do--after spending god-knows-how-much studying--is give us useful data to inform our decision to buy the second most expensive asset most Americans buy.

Instead, after years and untold millions, EPA is off by 30-40%. Think about it--how many of us here, on an important career assignment/deal could have been off 30% and still be here today, able to buy a Lucid?

Why do they undertake this when there conclusions are worthless?

BTW, this isn't a knock on Lucid---can't blame them for hiding in the EPA shade just like their competitors.

It’s important to remember that EPA does a lot more than cars. To be honest I don’t care if they rate cars at all. Let them do more important work like keeping chemicals out of the environment. How far a car goes on a charge is silly, because it’s unimportant compared to the other things they do and there are so many variables in range that it’s a crapshoot anyways.

 

[digiboxer]

It’s important to remember that EPA does a lot more than cars. To be honest I don’t care if they rate cars at all. Let them do more important work like keeping chemicals out of the environment. How far a car goes on a charge is silly, because it’s unimportant compared to the other things they do and there are so many variables in range that it’s a crapshoot anyways.

Then they should get out of the business of misleading car buyers

 

[Slam08]

Looking at EPA range vs real world range, it’s interesting that the cars that did less than the EPA real world range usually started with a T, lol

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.

www.edmunds.com

 

[Sterling]

Someone having a car for a few days to test, I think saying it puts it to rest is a little much. I have 13.5k miles and I am at about 2.95 mkWh. I’m not dissatisfied with this result. I have an 1111hp car and can get 350 miles or more on a charge. I have tried setting cruise at 75mph and haven’t gotten anything close to the estimated range the Air shows. Would be nice for Lucid to provide estimates based on use over the last 25 miles vs optimum.

But this further proves the point - the estimate is not given off a 75 mph cruise. Of course, I would consider that to be normal driving circumstances, but EPA estimates use the unrealistic standard of 56 mph. Nobody is driving that slow, BUT if you did drive at that speed, and with other particular driving settings met (tail-winds, downward hill, high regen braking), you can and will sometimes even pass the EPA advertised range. I've done it so many times as a challenge. It's not fun or convenient to drive that slow, but if Lucid wants to market their vehicle as best as possible, 520 is a high BUT truthful advertisement. It's like iPhone saying the battery will last 13 hours: I'm not going to record 20 videos, watch 2 hours of YouTube, download some songs, then complain that iPhone is lying since I only received 7 hours of battery life.

 

[Bobby]

This question has been discussed to death here and elsewhere. There is now plenty of data out there regarding real world range of this car. Any informed buyer should ignore the EPA range and instead use the experiences of other drivers and auto journalists for comparison.

 

[thecodingart]

This question has been discussed to death here and elsewhere. There is now plenty of data out there regarding real world range of this car. Any informed buyer should ignore the EPA range and instead use the experiences of other drivers and auto journalists for comparison.

It has, but Lucid foes need to change their range calculations. It especially negatively impacts reputation and road trip experiences if you don’t know what you’re getting into.

 

[victoryroad]

It has, but Lucid foes need to change their range calculations. It especially negatively impacts reputation and road trip experiences if you don’t know what you’re getting into.

Agree. Unless one has followed the range threads it is easy to expect closer to the advertised EPA range. To me, the biggest problem is the dearth of EA stations anywhere near where I live. The closest EA 350 station is an hour away. My home ChargePoint is fine, but at $0.30+/kWh, and much more in other areas, free is better.

 

[vitalevince]

Who is getting the range stated on their Air? Is anyone getting 516 miles of range?

I have seen no one say they have, I have seen 0 youtube videos on it. I know a lot of people got the 1,111HP edition. How close to the rated range does the Air get?

The T and P are yet to be released and they have 406 miles of estimated range (I think just to top Tesla 405 miles). I am going to guess the M3 LR gets better range. I haven't seen anyone saying how great the range is. Most of you say how great the car is and you love it, but no one is talking about the range and efficiency.

No. I’m getting between 350 and 400 kilometres. Bull