Tesla FSD status: still utter crap

[joec]

I mean- are they actually stopping in the middle of the road (which would mostly be on highways / freeways presumably as that’s where autopilot is mostly used) of their own accord?

Just a few days ago, it fully stopped on me on a city street. FSD was engaged.

Most of the time, on highways, I’ll be doing about 75, and the car will break hard. I’ve never waited around to see if it would fully stop in that situation. (Getting rear ended isn’t really a life goal of mine.) I take over and get back up to speed. But a few times, I got down to about 40-45 before I could get the car back to accelerating.

 

[HC_79]

I mean- are they actually stopping in the middle of the road (which would mostly be on highways / freeways presumably as that’s where autopilot is mostly used) of their own accord?

Yes they are! I had this happen last week numerous times. The worst one was doing 80mph and braking down to almost a complete stop on the freeway. It’s outright dangerous. We were just lucky no cars were behind us every time it happened which was about 6 over a week.

 

[Chizle]

Look on the bright side, should train people not to follow a tesla too closely - or at all.

 

[Bus Driver]

Yes they are! I had this happen last week numerous times. The worst one was doing 80mph and braking down to almost a complete stop on the freeway. It’s outright dangerous. We were just lucky no cars were behind us every time it happened which was about 6 over a week.

Curiously, our Teslas are doing this phantom-braking-thing less and less frequently. It’s been at least a few months since I’ve had a phantom-braking incident.

Everytime I would have an incident I would send in a “bug report”. I’d like to think that someone at Tesla has been paying attention.

 

[hydbob]

Looks like radar is back on the menu boys!

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-backpedals-on-the-use-of-pure-vision-in-its-vehicles-files-to-use-a-new-radar-190789.html

 

[joec]

Looks like radar is back on the menu boys!

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-backpedals-on-the-use-of-pure-vision-in-its-vehicles-files-to-use-a-new-radar-190789.html

Wow. Well, if true, I give them credit for acknowledging the mistake and changing direction. It’ll be interesting to hear how they spin it. And how the Musk Minions defend it.

 

[DeaneG]

Looks like radar is back on the menu boys!

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-backpedals-on-the-use-of-pure-vision-in-its-vehicles-files-to-use-a-new-radar-190789.html

A year or two ago, I saw a Tesla Model 3 in Cupertino CA with manufacturer plates and a large rack structure on its roof. At each corner of the rack was a small flat rectangular imaging radar assembly pointed out from the corner at about 45 degrees. These was also one in the center front and back pointed straight forward and backward. The radar units looked exactly like something I'd seen in a recent press release by a startup. It could've been Arbe, I don't remember.

A common phrase in silicon valley is "I won't apologize for knowing more now than I did then" - no need to justify changing your mind as you learn.

 

[joec]

A year or two ago, I saw a Tesla Model 3 in Cupertino CA with manufacturer plates and a large rack structure on its roof. At each corner of the rack was a small flat rectangular imaging radar assembly pointed out from the corner at about 45 degrees. These was also one in the center front and back pointed straight forward and backward. The radar units looked exactly like something I'd seen in a recent press release by a startup. It could've been Arbe, I don't remember.

A common phrase in silicon valley is "I won't apologize for knowing more now than I did then" - no need to justify changing your mind as you learn.

True. But they will have to explain to the people who have bought cars with FSD in the past two years after dumping radar why their car will now never be fully autonomous, if the radar is required for that to work.

Tesla has claimed from the beginning of the model 3 that every car has 100% of the hardware it needs to reach level 5 autonomy.

 

[DeaneG]

True. But they will have to explain to the people who have bought cars with FSD in the past two years after dumping radar why their car will now never be fully autonomous, if the radar is required for that to work.

Tesla has claimed from the beginning of the model 3 that every car has 100% of the hardware it needs to reach level 5 autonomy.

They sure did. I paid $2K for FSD and the computing hardware upgrade. I don't think I got a penny more for FSD when I sold the car to Shift a couple weeks ago. Maybe they don't want to be part of the lie.

 

[joec]

Wow. This is bad, if what it implies is true. That AutoPilot basically disengages when it detects it's just about to hit something. Thus, Elon can always claim the car wasn't running AutoPilot when the crash occurred.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535353454905917446

 

[Codyroo]

Wow. This is bad, if what it implies is true. That AutoPilot basically disengages when it detects it's just about to hit something. Thus, Elon can always claim the car wasn't running AutoPilot when the crash occurred.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535353454905917446

If true, that is criminal (like behavior)......I suspect a jury of our peers would agree (fanboys no withstanding.....)

 

[hydbob]

Wow. This is bad, if what it implies is true. That AutoPilot basically disengages when it detects it's just about to hit something. Thus, Elon can always claim the car wasn't running AutoPilot when the crash occurred.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535353454905917446

So...working as intended

 

[HC_79]

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/nhtsa-upgrades-autopilot-investigation-to-engineering-analysis-finds-disturbing-signs-190944.html

 

[Yugi]

Tesla Autopilot tops the list of most crashes on driver-assist features in new NHTSA report

Tesla has topped the list of most crashes on advanced driver-assist (ADAS) features – Autopilot in Tesla’s case – in NHTSA’s first report on “Safety Performance of Advanced Vehicle Technologies.” Dr. Steven Cliff, NHTSA’s Administrator, commented on the report: The data released today are part...

electrek.co

 

[Thehack]

What is interesting is even to get into the Beta, don't you have to prove yourself a good driver in the first place? So people that are on FSD are exemplary examples of what a person should be doing in a car? So... wouldn't this mean that someone with a decent brain behind the wheel with FSD enabled have a better record than the average person driving without FSD in the first place?

One thing I am curious about is sun glare and flares from reflections. This question is mostly for @HC_79 , you mentioned 6 in a week. Do you recall if those were clear sunny days? Night time drives? Any particular level of sun or reflective material at the time of your drive? (This is just the developer in me attempting to troubleshoot something that is not mine ).

In a vehicle that relies solely on visual reference with probably less experience in "tracking" motion and intended direction of said objects and then the inclusion of what "appear" to be stationary objects based on a single point of reference (i.e. side pillar camera not being able to build a 'stereo' model of it's surroundings), I am way out of my element in attempting to 'see' what the Tesla 'sees'. I could not imagine the amount of work that has been put into this system.

 

[joec]

What is interesting is even to get into the Beta, don't you have to prove yourself a good driver in the first place? So people that are on FSD are exemplary examples of what a person should be doing in a car? So... wouldn't this mean that someone with a decent brain behind the wheel with FSD enabled have a better record than the average person driving without FSD in the first place?

The system they came up with for scoring your driving was so ridiculously easy to game, I wouldn’t put any stock in it at all.

You could drive 40 mph over the speed limit, and that had no effect on your score. Break or turn even slightly higher than their threshold though (which was so slow you’d be annoying the crap out of the person behind you), and you get dinged.

Someone cuts into your lane, and you break to not hit them? You get double dinged, first for the frontal collision warning, second for hitting your breaks too hard.

So people figured out to just drive on an empty highway for 50 miles or so, then wait until you are approved.

Once approved, you can go back to driving like a jackass.

Oh, and you could just reboot the car to clean your slate if you messed up.

It was idiotic. It’s no wonder FSD drives so poorly. What they consider “good driving” does not resemble good driving.

 

[Thehack]

The system they came up with for scoring your driving was so ridiculously easy to game, I wouldn’t put any stock in it at all.

You could drive 40 mph over the speed limit, and that had no effect on your score. Break or turn even slightly higher than their threshold though (which was so slow you’d be annoying the crap out of the person behind you), and you get dinged.

Someone cuts into your lane, and you break to not hit them? You get double dinged, first for the frontal collision warning, second for hitting your breaks too hard.

So people figured out to just drive on an empty highway for 50 miles or so, then wait until you are approved.

Once approved, you can go back to driving like a jackass.

Oh, and you could just reboot the car to clean your slate if you messed up.

It was idiotic. It’s no wonder FSD drives so poorly. What they consider “good driving” does not resemble good driving.

Incredulous... I had NO IDEA!

 

[Bus Driver]

The system they came up with for scoring your driving was so ridiculously easy to game, I wouldn’t put any stock in it at all.

You could drive 40 mph over the speed limit, and that had no effect on your score. Break or turn even slightly higher than their threshold though (which was so slow you’d be annoying the crap out of the person behind you), and you get dinged.

Someone cuts into your lane, and you break to not hit them? You get double dinged, first for the frontal collision warning, second for hitting your breaks too hard.

So people figured out to just drive on an empty highway for 50 miles or so, then wait until you are approved.

Once approved, you can go back to driving like a jackass.

Oh, and you could just reboot the car to clean your slate if you messed up.

It was idiotic. It’s no wonder FSD drives so poorly. What they consider “good driving” does not resemble good driving.

OR, you could be a crappy Asian driver like me, with no peripheral vision, and never get above 85%, no matter what I do.

 

[joec]

And then there’s this:

Tesla relaunches $6,000 Enhanced Autopilot – gutting Full Self-Driving package in the process

Tesla has relaunched its Enhanced Autopilot option and pulled almost all the features from its Full Self-Driving (FSD) package in the process. Over the years, Tesla has changed its Autopilot options and pricing so many times, it has been hard to follow. Ultimately, the automaker has ended up...

electrek.co

In theory, this should tank Tesla’s stock, as it’s an admission that FSD is nowhere near ready for prime time, and thus has likely been seeing diminished sales for some time.

After all, the only possible justification for Tesla’s current price is the “future” value of FSD, which people just believe Elon when he says it’s worth tens of thousands of dollars, and everyone will pay it.

They will never make enough money just selling cars to be anywhere close to their current stock value.

But it’s Tesla, so I’m sure their stock will be up on this news.

 

[jsg-lsb]

Tesla FSD is actually getting quite good - have a look at this recent video of their latest beta.

. Let's hope DreamDrivePro can catch up quickly, but I am not holding my breath. To be quite honest, even with the latest Lucid 2.1.10 software, my 2023 Kia Sportage self-driving is quite a bit better than my 2023 Air Grand Touring as far as lane keeping on twisty roads, overall smoothness, and MUCH less naggy (touch the steering wheel, etc.).