NACS (Tesla adapter) versus CCS Megathread

[hydbob]

Lucid ultimately has no control over that, so it's a moot point and speculation at best regarding V4 chargers at this point.

What Lucid does have control over, that nobody seems to talk about, is upgrading their Wunderbox to enable charging speeds above the abysmal 50kwh at 400v as either an add-on or new gen

That would possibly entail a full and complete re-design of the front of the vehicle. Not worth it, IMO, because of the time and resources to bring it to market. By then, it might not even be useful or necessary.

 

[Bill55]

Lucid ultimately has no control over that, so it's a moot point and speculation at best regarding V4 chargers at this point.

What Lucid does have control over, that nobody seems to talk about, is upgrading their Wunderbox to enable charging speeds above the abysmal 50kwh at 400v as either an add-on or new gen

Inverters are current limited. You have no idea what you are asking for. 1000v will be the future for EV charging. Charging stations will get there over time.
NACS has won. CCS is done. It’s not a debate at this point. Look at the list of manufacturers already on the NACS train.
Lucid’s in 2025 will be NACS or Lucid will not be relevant.

 

[Haggy]

They don't even have working V4 chargers anywhere in the world right now

They have one, but there's no evidence that it's actually at 1000V.

Lucid ultimately has no control over that, so it's a moot point and speculation at best regarding V4 chargers at this point.

What Lucid does have control over, that nobody seems to talk about, is upgrading their Wunderbox to enable charging speeds above the abysmal 50kwh at 400v as either an add-on or new gen

They have no control over what Tesla does, but they could make a statement conditional on what's deployed. As for the Wunderbox, that obviously didn't make sense prior to Tesla opening up the system. A redesign could be done, but Lucid would have to balance that against the likelihood of Tesla deploying V4, which would make it a moot point. Since with most Superchargers, you'd have to take up three spaces and park a Lucid sideways since the cables are too short, it might not matter. If Tesla starts putting in longer cables and magic docks, and they go in V4 chargers, then Lucid won't need to change the Wunderbox. If Tesla decides to retrofit older equipment, it's different, but I have no idea whether retrofits are eligible for funding or whether it would have to be for new installations. I doubt that the government had retrofits in mind since there was nothing to retrofit when they wrote the legislation.

If Lucid did make that change, what would it cost to change it in existing vehicles, if it could be done? If they changed the port to NACS, then it wouldn't need more wires, so it should be doable. But there are too many unknowns.

 

[Bill55]

They have one, but there's no evidence that it's actually at 1000V.

They have no control over what Tesla does, but they could make a statement conditional on what's deployed. As for the Wunderbox, that obviously didn't make sense prior to Tesla opening up the system. A redesign could be done, but Lucid would have to balance that against the likelihood of Tesla deploying V4, which would make it a moot point. Since with most Superchargers, you'd have to take up three spaces and park a Lucid sideways since the cables are too short, it might not matter. If Tesla starts putting in longer cables and magic docks, and they go in V4 chargers, then Lucid won't need to change the Wunderbox. If Tesla decides to retrofit older equipment, it's different, but I have no idea whether retrofits are eligible for funding or whether it would have to be for new installations. I doubt that the government had retrofits in mind since there was nothing to retrofit when they wrote the legislation.

If Lucid did make that change, what would it cost to change it in existing vehicles, if it could be done? If they changed the port to NACS, then it wouldn't need more wires, so it should be doable. But there are too many unknowns.

I think you all are missing the point. CCS is over in North America. Lucid has no charging network and zero leverage. Be proactive and join NACS now, or fight it and change later.

 

[joec]

Oh my ever loving lizard. How are you all STILL talking about this? Is it not time to give it up? No one wants to change their already made up minds on this topic. If there was a horse, you not only beat it to death. You beat it after it was dead so badly nobody recognized it. And then you beat it until it was a rhinoceros. And then beat it back into a horse again. Then a giraffe. Then a slug. Then some sort of primordial ooze.

The dead horse’s great grandchildren have died of old age at this stage.

If there was ever a point to this thread, it was lost 27 pages ago.

My goodness.

Pro tip: Whatever you are about type, just glance back 15 pages or so to where someone else already said what you are about to say. Trust me. It’s there.

Some weeks ago I joked with the other mods I was about to offer $10,000 to whoever could get everyone to stop talking about NACS. I should have made the offer. My bank account would be doing just fine.

Rant over. Carry on. I’ll just continue to read the endless ”debate” while I’m banging my head against the wall.

 

[invalidname]

Inverters are current limited. You have no idea what you are asking for. 1000v will be the future for EV charging. Charging stations will get there over time.
NACS has won. CCS is done. It’s not a debate at this point. Look at the list of manufacturers already on the NACS train.
Lucid’s in 2025 will be NACS or Lucid will not be relevant.

Porsche Taycan did it years ago, they upgraded their onboard DC charger to charge up to 150kw from 50kw for their 800v battery architecture at 400v DC chargers as an option.

Unless Tesla can release thousands of V4 chargers within 1-2 years, Lucid converting to NACS (1-2 years) while working on upgrading their 400v DC charging capabilities (1-2 years) seems more in line of what Lucid actually has control over.

Knowing Tesla with their delays, V4 rollout will take years even more to actually be usable for Lucids and other ~1000v EVs. During that time, there is already thousands of V2-V3 chargers that an upgraded 400v DC charger can use.

Or Lucid can act like an OEM from years ago instead and sit back and deny where the market is going towards, and expect everything to fall into their laps.

 

[Bill55]

Porsche Taycan did it years ago, they upgraded their onboard DC charger to charge up to 150kw from 50kw for their 800v battery architecture at 400v DC chargers as an option.

Unless Tesla can release thousands of V4 chargers within 1-2 years, Lucid converting to NACS (1-2 years) while working on upgrading their 400v DC charging capabilities (1-2 years) seems more in line of what Lucid actually has control over.

Knowing Tesla with their delays, V4 rollout will take years even more to actually be usable for Lucids and other ~1000v EVs. During that time, there is already thousands of V2-V3 chargers that an upgraded 400v DC charger can use.

Or Lucid can act like an OEM from years ago instead and sit back and deny where the market is going towards, and expect everything to fall into their laps.

My bet is in 2025 Lucid will be on NACS and 400v Dc chargers will be ~50 kW on Lucid. Lucid will be among the fastest on 800-1000v DC chargers. The Wunderbox will be the same in 2025 as it is today. How much do you want to bet?

 

[invalidname]

My bet is in 2025 Lucid will be on NACS and 400v Dc chargers will be ~50 kW on Lucid. Lucid will be among the fastest on 800-1000v DC chargers. The Wunderbox will be the same in 2025 as it is today. How much do you want to bet?

calm down, did I ever suggest that Lucid would not be on NACS? And based on Lucid's current response, they're probably won't upgrade their wunderbox to accomodate faster 400v charging

 

[borski]

Not one of them has cared about charging speed. It matters to you and me, but not to them. All they care about is convenience, and user experience.

Speed is a significant part of user experience. The ease with which you plug in won’t matter if you’re sitting there for an hour and a half twiddling your thumbs for what should/could have been a 25 minutes charging stop.