Tesla’s 6th price cut in 2023

Tesla2.0

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Musk is clearly aiming to knock out as many new entrants to the competition as he can, and I have a feeling his sights are particularly set on Lucid before they can deploy their better technology further downstream in lower-priced products where they would compete more directly with Tesla.

This predatory pricing strategy can violate anti-trust laws, but such things rarely stay Musk's hand, whether it's ignoring the terms of his settlement agreement with the SEC for stock price manipulation, ignoring health authorities in reopening a plant during Covid-19, or ignoring German law in shutting down content moderation for Twitter in Germany.

He's rich, he's brash, and he's above the laws made by little people.
 
Musk is clearly aiming to knock out as many new entrants to the competition as he can, and I have a feeling his sights are particularly set on Lucid before they can deploy their better technology further downstream in lower-priced products where they would compete more directly with Tesla.

This predatory pricing strategy can violate anti-trust laws, but such things rarely stay Musk's hand, whether it's ignoring the terms of his settlement agreement with the SEC for stock price manipulation, ignoring health authorities in reopening a plant during Covid-19, or ignoring German law in shutting down content moderation for Twitter in Germany.

He's rich, he's brash, and he's above the laws made by little people.
I really dont see a problem with this price cut.
 
I really dont see a problem with this price cut.

Consumers seldom see a problem with predatory price cuts . . . until they successfully eliminate competition and later leave consumers at the mercy of too-few suppliers of the goods.

You may not be familiar with the monopolistic excesses of the late-nineteenth century robber barons that spurred the creation of U.S. anti-trust laws, but they were created for good reason then and should be enforced for good reason now.

And there's more going on than "this" price cut. There is absolutely no way that Tesla is cutting costs and increasing manufacturing efficiency fast enough to justify six price cuts in a few months of the magnitude of these cuts. This is predatory pricing that is being propped up by Tesla stock performance.
 
And there's more going on than "this" price cut. There is absolutely no way that Tesla is cutting costs and increasing manufacturing efficiency fast enough to justify six price cuts in a few months of the magnitude of these cuts. This is predatory pricing that is being propped up by Tesla stock performance.
apparently, they had 28% margins (2022) to work with before all these cuts, so even if they didn't increase efficiency during this time, they had a lot of fat to work with. but i agree, they had the margins available to them, and are now using it "competitively" to their advantage
 
apparently, they had 28% margins (2022) to work with before all these cuts, so even if they didn't increase efficiency during this time, they had a lot of fat to work with. but i agree, they had the margins available to them, and are now using it "competitively" to their advantage
This is how predatory pricing strategies work. Accept less growth for a while to generate margins that support stock price growth and/or gain access to broader credit lines. Then stockpile that financial clout until circumstances become opportune to start delivering knock-out pricing punches to the competition.

A main defense against allegations of predatory pricing are showings of efficiency and cost reduction that independently justify the price reductions. Tesla has been loudly hyping their ever-increasing efficiencies to bolster this defense when needed. But the price cuts are coming too fast and too steep to be accounted for by cost reductions.

It's an old playbook still turned to by those who dare or feel immune to the reach of law. Musk fits that bill and is seizing the moment that he thinks Lucid and Rivian are presenting him right now, especially as both companies threaten Tesla on the technology front with continued acclaim from reviewers and awards while they struggle with sales numbers.

It's no coincidence that Sandy Munro, who Musk once thought was in his pocket, is now boring into Lucid's technology and coming up amazed, or that Lucid just won the World Luxury Car of the Year award from a panel of 100 international auto journalists, or that Rivian's pickup is getting rave reviews just as the bizarre Cybertruck is entering the lists.

If Musk can't vanquish them with technology and design, he'll do it with predatory pricing.
 
This is how predatory pricing strategies work. Accept less growth for a while to generate margins that support stock price growth and/or gain access to broader credit lines. Then stockpile that financial clout until circumstances become opportune to start delivering knock-out pricing punches to the competition.

A main defense against allegations of predatory pricing are showings of efficiency and cost reduction that independently justify the price reductions. Tesla has been loudly hyping their ever-increasing efficiencies to bolster this defense when needed. But the price cuts are coming too fast and too steep to be accounted for by cost reductions.

It's an old playbook still turned to by those who dare or feel immune to the reach of law. Musk fits that bill and is seizing the moment that he thinks Lucid and Rivian are presenting him right now, especially as both companies threaten Tesla on the technology front with continued acclaim from reviewers and awards while they struggle with sales numbers.

It's no coincidence that Sandy Munro, who Musk once thought was in his pocket, is now boring into Lucid's technology and coming up amazed, or that Lucid just won the World Luxury Car of the Year award from a panel of 100 international auto journalists, or that Rivian's pickup is getting rave reviews just as the bizarre Cybertruck is entering the lists.

If Musk can't vanquish them with technology and design, he'll do it with predatory pricing.
Not that I disagree, but isn't the new CEO making that call and not Musk this time around?
 
And if you believe that I have some wonderful ocean front property in Phoenix I would like to sell you.
Already bought some the last time when I bought FSD.
 
I just met up and chat with one of my acquaintances, he showed me he just bought Model-Y Performance as his first EV. He told he got lucky. He ordered last year, it was too long of wait, so he canceled. Now he bought it almost 20k cheaper bc Fed 7500 tax credit.

On the other hand, his friend is ultra pissed bought a MS Plaid 150k last year October in half year price dropped 30k.
 
This is how predatory pricing strategies work. Accept less growth for a while to generate margins that support stock price growth and/or gain access to broader credit lines. Then stockpile that financial clout until circumstances become opportune to start delivering knock-out pricing punches to the competition.

A main defense against allegations of predatory pricing are showings of efficiency and cost reduction that independently justify the price reductions. Tesla has been loudly hyping their ever-increasing efficiencies to bolster this defense when needed. But the price cuts are coming too fast and too steep to be accounted for by cost reductions.

It's an old playbook still turned to by those who dare or feel immune to the reach of law. Musk fits that bill and is seizing the moment that he thinks Lucid and Rivian are presenting him right now, especially as both companies threaten Tesla on the technology front with continued acclaim from reviewers and awards while they struggle with sales numbers.

It's no coincidence that Sandy Munro, who Musk once thought was in his pocket, is now boring into Lucid's technology and coming up amazed, or that Lucid just won the World Luxury Car of the Year award from a panel of 100 international auto journalists, or that Rivian's pickup is getting rave reviews just as the bizarre Cybertruck is entering the lists.

If Musk can't vanquish them with technology and design, he'll do it with predatory pricing.
I’m not sure I get the predatory pricing logic. Their prices (and margins) have been absurd for a couple of years. Now they have to drop them to industry average margins to avoid massive inventory pile ups.

To me the gouging was what was offensive (not that it wasn’t happening with other manufacturers, it’s just that the others were wrought by their dealers). Now they seem to be a fair price for what you get (ie they are not luxury cars so why should they be priced like one).
 
I’m not sure I get the predatory pricing logic. Their prices (and margins) have been absurd for a couple of years. Now they have to drop them to industry average margins to avoid massive inventory pile ups.

To me the gouging was what was offensive (not that it wasn’t happening with other manufacturers, it’s just that the others were wrought by their dealers). Now they seem to be a fair price for what you get (ie they are not luxury cars so why should they be priced like one).

You are right about Tesla's margins, which have been a recent keystone propping up outsized multiples in the stock price. The recent margins had replaced the earlier keystone of the stock price, which was the uniqueness/superiority of Tesla technology -- something that Lucid had a significant hand in knocking out.

However, determining whether there is predatory pricing in contravention of U.S. anti-trust law is a two-step process. The first step is to look at what drove the price decreases, and there are several theories afoot regarding that. One entirely credible theory is yours about lagging demand. Another theory, espoused by my brother, is that FSD is finally within sight, and Musk is willing to take margin erosion to increase the size of the fleet to enhance the revenue stream from subscriptions once true FSD arrives. (I would have more confidence in that theory if we hadn't been hearing promises that FSD was just months away for some years now.) Then there's my theory about the setup for a knock-out swing at the competition. Of course, the real motive in these rapid, steep price decreases could be a combination of any of these theories and other plausible ones.

The second step is to see what happens with Tesla pricing should these reductions result in reducing or removing competition. If pricing after such an event moves toward returning margins to pre-reduction levels, then the presumption of an illicit motive arises and becomes actionable under anti-trust law. Tesla could, of course, still present defenses against such a presumption, but it would be game on for the anti-trust lawyers at that point.

Only one thing is clear at this point: Tesla has royally ticked off customers from the past year or two who have seen the resale value of their Teslas plummet in the face of these rapid-fire price changes.
 
Are Tesla's price cuts really any different from legacy manufacturers increasing their incentives to boost sales? The effect is the same on the customer's price paid.
 
Are Tesla's price cuts really any different from legacy manufacturers increasing their incentives to boost sales? The effect is the same on the customer's price paid.

It's a matter of both degree and motive. Recent Tesla price cuts have gone as high as $31,000 for one model. I don't remember any manufacturer incentive programs that provided proportionately deep price relief, nor has there been any suspicion that a legacy manufacturer might have been trying to knock out a rival from competition with incentive programs.

The EV landscape is very different, with new entrants seeking to gain footholds in an industry with extremely high entry barriers and being in very precarious financial conditions at some stages. Knock-out blows are much easier to attempt in this landscape than in that of the legacy automakers.

In trying to tease out real motive in such cases, history and prior conduct become relevant circumstantial evidence. And Musk has an interesting history when it comes to Lucid.

For one thing, Musk attempted to secure Saudi financing to take Tesla private in 2017. He ended up with a lot of egg on his face when the Saudis disavowed a deal he publicly said was done and was further embarrassed when the SEC sanctioned him for attempted market manipulation. To make matters worse, Lucid snagged the Saudi EV investment funds instead, which was the turning point in Lucid's transition from product concept to product production.

Then Musk, in a blatant attempt to take Peter Rawlinson down a notch, issued bald-faced lies about Rawlinson's role at Tesla, claiming Rawlinson was nothing more than a minor chassis engineer. Musk again wound up with egg on his face when "InsideEVs" and other EV news outlets dug up the archived press release Tesla had issued at the time of Rawlinson's hire, announcing him as the Chief Engineer of the Model S and the person responsible for bringing to project to market. The embarrassment deepened when people began to dredge up old "Car & Driver" and "Motor Trend" articles from the 2011 Los Angeles Auto Show in which Rawlinson was on the podium unveiling the Model S prototype to the public and identified as the Chief Engineer of the car.

Musk has since been on the internet claiming Lucid is on an irreversible path to failure and that bankruptcy is looming. This is an extraordinary way for the head of one automotive company to talk about another.

There may be a lot of reasons Musk is slashing prices at Tesla. But there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest that among those motives is a desire to use any means at his disposal to eradicate Peter Rawlinson and Lucid from the scene.

For all his earlier talk about wanting to create an environment in which other EV makers join him in electrifying the world of transportation, Musk's behavior on many fronts has indicated anything but. If he thinks he sees an opportunity to deliver a knock-out blow to a competitor whose mere existence affronts his overblown but fragile ego, he'll take it -- and he'll take legal risks to do it, as he has with so many other matters.


P.S. In case you haven't noticed, I really, really don't like Elon Musk . . . and we now own our second Tesla.
 
Just a reminder for everyone to mind the guidelines. No one has crossed the line just yet, but we're getting close to the edge of disparaging individuals.

Let's keep the discussion focused on these price changes as they affect Lucid or the EV market in general, and leave the personal feelings about certain individuals out of it, please?

I'd hate to have to shut down yet another Tesla-related thread.
 
I cant really hate this. The model 3 is still a pretty good car for 40k.
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Just a reminder for everyone to mind the guidelines. No one has crossed the line just yet, but we're getting close to the edge of disparaging individuals.

Let's keep the discussion focused on these price changes as they affect Lucid or the EV market in general, and leave the personal feelings about certain individuals out of it, please?

I'd hate to have to shut down yet another Tesla-related thread.

Sorry, I just assumed Musk was viewed as a pubic figure who could be commented on along the same lines allowed for comments on public figures in the media.

I'll rein it in here, though, as I understand your concern.
 
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