Tesla’s 6th price cut in 2023

[Tesla2.0]

You went to the event at Ikea, sounded like fun, wanted to go, but it got in the way of cycling

It was great to meet many different brand’s EV enthusiasts. You should try next year.

 

[borski]

I would take a Tesla over the Ioniq 6 all day long. Same with most people I know too.

I would definitely pick the Ioniq 6 fwiw.

 

[Electrified]

I really dont see a problem with this price cut.

The market did.
Musk should invest in building a better quality product, of course one could look at the price cuts as a match to the current build quality.

 

[NewEnglander]

It's been eons since I took antitrust law in law school. But if I remember correctly, predatory pricing can stand alone as a violation if it knocks out competitors even if it doesn't result in a dominant or monopoly position. What it necessary is that the violator be able later to raise and maintain higher prices.

Again, I think a lot more would have to emerge from this for Tesla to get taken to the woodshed. And even were it ultimately to appear that predatory pricing was part of Musk's agenda, the courts are fairly hostile to such prosecutions and set a very high bar for proof of intent which is usually difficult to meet.

This is exactly the kind of legal sandbox in which Musk likes to play his stunts -- test limits, use the opportunity to ridicule authorities, milk it for all the publicity value it's worth, hire a phalanx of lawyers if the government rattles any sabers, and usually walk away. As he proved with the SEC sanctions from the Saudi deal and with his defiance of Alameda County health authorities, any penalty he feels he can ignore with eventual impunity is no penalty to him at all.

I am not a Musk fan but not a Musk hater either. If we ignore the person Musk from this debate, we have to consider that what Tesla offers for a < 40K price is something no other manufacturer is able to offer. Similarly, Model Y at current prices and with Federal rebate is a tremendous bargain vs many offerings. I think we all agree that 3/Y are not luxury products and not high quality either but Tesla is pushing every manufacturer to generate efficiencies which ultimately is a good thing for the consumer. This is precisely what the Govt wanted for automobile electrification, isn’t it? Hence the chances of an anti-trust stepping in are zero at this stage. I sincerely hope every manufacturer makes an attempt towards reigning in costs. Lucid has done it with painful layoffs and so has Rivian. Losing $2B a year on EVs, like Ford announced, is not a recipe for success and if firms want to win against Tesla, they have to be a bit like Tesla, not necessarily musk.

 

[Electrified]

I am not a Musk fan but not a Musk hater either. If we ignore the person Musk from this debate, we have to consider that what Tesla offers for a < 40K price is something no other manufacturer is able to offer. Similarly, Model Y at current prices and with Federal rebate is a tremendous bargain vs many offerings. I think we all agree that 3/Y are not luxury products and not high quality either but Tesla is pushing every manufacturer to generate efficiencies which ultimately is a good thing for the consumer. This is precisely what the Govt wanted for automobile electrification, isn’t it? Hence the chances of an anti-trust stepping in are zero at this stage. I sincerely hope every manufacturer makes an attempt towards reigning in costs. Lucid has done it with painful layoffs and so has Rivian. Losing $2B a year on EVs, like Ford announced, is not a recipe for success and if firms want to win against Tesla, they have to be a bit like Tesla, not necessarily musk.

I'm not a Musk fan or a Musk hater either and in fact I've had a lot success with TSLA. I don't know if companies have to be like Tesla to succeed but they certainly have to build a better vehicle and I think Lucid has achieved that in so many respects. I also think Lucid and the other EV manufacturers will take less than 10 years to have a yearly profit.

Tesla had losses and cash burns 2009 thru 2019, and finally turned a yearly profit in 2020, more recently Q3 2022, and Q1 2023 expected revenue targets were missed and I do not see price cuts fixing that.

 

[hmp10]

. . . Tesla is pushing every manufacturer to generate efficiencies which ultimately is a good thing for the consumer.

Yes, and Lucid is doing just that. Instead of focusing on upping his own game further, Musk's response is to lie about Peter Rawlinson, claim Lucid has a fatally-flawed business model, and taunt them as headed for bankruptcy.

Does anyone remember how constantly Musk used to whine about short sellers, claiming they were trying to bring down his company with lies?

As Electrified said above, there is little difference in where Lucid is financially today and where Tesla was at the same point in its evolution.

 

[xponents]

The market did.
Musk should invest in building a better quality product, of course one could look at the price cuts as a match to the current build quality.

Well, maybe hes doing this to prepare for the refresh?

 

[JillyBean]

I would take a Tesla over the Ioniq 6 all day long. Same with most people I know too.

Agreed
Never met anyone who didn’t like their M3

 

[Tesla2.0]

I met with this owner on Drive Electric Earth Day. She was ex-Model X owner. Her 2020 MX got rear ended last year and then MX went up price 20k since she bought it and it takes about a year to deliver to her when she ordered. So she went to Hyundai dealer and paid for Ioniq5, a few grands over MSRP. She likes it a lot, especially with towing and bi-directional charging. She said there are few features was revolutionary not found in Tesla, and the car charges fast.

This was going to be my son’s car until we walked in to Hyundai dealers and got snubbed. 12k above 48k MSRP was extortion. Dealers make killing while Hyundai almost bleeds to make this car. This dealership model gotta go, it’s not working for electrification movement. My son ended up with Polestar 2 instead.

 

[hmp10]

Agreed
Never met anyone who didn’t like their M3

My brother likes his 2018 Model 3 but admits it is only because he has learned to live with its buckboard ride and fit & finish issues.

We also liked our 2015 Model S P90D enough to get a 2021 Model S Plaid.

But then we got our Lucid Air Dream Performance, and our Tesla-buying days came to an end.

 

[JillyBean]

My brother likes his 2018 Model 3 but admits it is only because he has learned to live with its buckboard ride and fit & finish issues.

We also liked our 2015 Model S P90D enough to get a 2021 Model S Plaid.

But then we got our Lucid Air Dream Performance, and our Tesla-buying days came to an end.

Awesome
Have a neighbor husband/wife who now each have a Y. They say they love it. They had the Mercedes EV for a short time and were disappointed charging issues - software

 

[hmp10]

Awesome
Have a neighbor husband/wife who now each have a Y. They say they love it. They had the Mercedes EV for a short time and were disappointed charging issues - software

I think the Model Y is the best thing in the Tesla lineup. I have test driven one twice and found its seating to be the most comfortable of any Tesla and was surprised to find its second-row seating more comfortable than the Model X (which I have also test driven a few times over the years).

My brother is planning to replace his Model 3 with a Model Y, but he has been holding off until he sees what Tesla is going to do with the Y suspension -- either add an air suspension which Sandy Munro found has been allowed for in the chassis design or soften the coil suspension. (I have warned him, though, that an air suspension does not necessarily mean a more compliant ride or more controlled handling, as demonstrated by the comparison between our air-suspended Plaid and our coil-suspended Dream.)

The most frequently-discussed contrast between Tesla and Lucid have related to their software. With UX 1.0, our Tesla's software easily trounced our Lucid's software. But UX 2.0 and its progeny of updates have changed that game, with us both now preferring Lucid's software. Both of us prefer to drive our cars ourselves and make little use of ADAS. But for most other uses, Lucid's software is now much more useful: twin satellite map displays, birds-eye-view imaging, front and rear distance measurements, cross-traffic alerts, ability to read a USB music stick, Dolby Atmos -- and greater ease in adjusting audio volume, air vents, lights, wipers . . . .

 

[xponents]

I think the Model Y is the best thing in the Tesla lineup. I have test driven one twice and found its seating to be the most comfortable of any Tesla and was surprised to find its second-row seating more comfortable than the Model X (which I have also test driven a few times over the years).

My brother is planning to replace his Model 3 with a Model Y, but he has been holding off until he sees what Tesla is going to do with the Y suspension -- either add an air suspension which Sandy Munro found has been allowed for in the chassis design or soften the coil suspension. (I have warned him, though, that an air suspension does not necessarily mean a more compliant ride or more controlled handling, as demonstrated by the comparison between our air-suspended Plaid and our coil-suspended Dream.)

The most frequently-discussed contrast between Tesla and Lucid have related to their software. With UX 1.0, our Tesla's software easily trounced our Lucid's software. But UX 2.0 and its progeny of updates have changed that game, with us both now preferring Lucid's software. Both of us prefer to drive our cars ourselves and make little use of ADAS. But for most other uses, Lucid's software is now much more useful: twin satellite map displays, birds-eye-view imaging, front and rear distance measurements, cross-traffic alerts, ability to read a USB music stick, Dolby Atmos -- and greater ease in adjusting audio volume, air vents, lights, wipers . . . .

The model y does have more second row legroom than the model x, which again shows how outdated its packaging is.
However, lets talk about suspension, its really not good compared to the model x. Feels to me the Y is a people mover, the x is a performance suv.

 

[HariK]

I think the Model Y is the best thing in the Tesla lineup. I have test driven one twice and found its seating to be the most comfortable of any Tesla and was surprised to find its second-row seating more comfortable than the Model X (which I have also test driven a few times over the years).

My brother is planning to replace his Model 3 with a Model Y, but he has been holding off until he sees what Tesla is going to do with the Y suspension -- either add an air suspension which Sandy Munro found has been allowed for in the chassis design or soften the coil suspension. (I have warned him, though, that an air suspension does not necessarily mean a more compliant ride or more controlled handling, as demonstrated by the comparison between our air-suspended Plaid and our coil-suspended Dream.)

The most frequently-discussed contrast between Tesla and Lucid have related to their software. With UX 1.0, our Tesla's software easily trounced our Lucid's software. But UX 2.0 and its progeny of updates have changed that game, with us both now preferring Lucid's software. Both of us prefer to drive our cars ourselves and make little use of ADAS. But for most other uses, Lucid's software is now much more useful: twin satellite map displays, birds-eye-view imaging, front and rear distance measurements, cross-traffic alerts, ability to read a USB music stick, Dolby Atmos -- and greater ease in adjusting audio volume, air vents, lights, wipers . . . .

Also don't forget the bi-directional CCS port for V2H using the builtin inverter.

 

[gavram]

The price fluctuations and mid-year hardware upgrades/downgrades made me very wary of Tesla and I was glad when I sold it after receiving the Lucid.

After I bought my '22 Model S, but within the same model year, they upgraded the headlights, changed the charging port, updated the rear end, updated the rear screen, deactivated the radar, and upgraded the RAM. All of this was done within 7 months of having taken delivery.

This, plus the crazy price changes, erodes consumer confidence and makes the owner perpetually feel like they have the "old version" of the car, even within the same year it was purchased.

 

[JillyBean]

Just and FYI for stock traders
TSLA stock price has direct correlation to lucid price keep eyes on both. More than 90% of the time if tesla is up, any significant amount LUCID it is up …… if Tesla is down LUCID will generally follow suit. Root for both companies to be successful.

 

[hmp10]

Just and FYI for stock traders
TSLA stock price has direct correlation to lucid price keep eyes on both. More than 90% of the time if tesla is up, any significant amount LUCID it is up …… if Tesla is down LUCID will generally follow suit. Root for both companies to be successful.

I own significant tranches of stock in both companies and have followed them both closely for some time.

Lucid stock is going through a very rough patch right now, but one thing gives me particular hope that Lucid will do very well in the long haul: Lucid competes against Tesla with technology and design; Tesla competes against Lucid with trash talk.

 

[borski]

Tesla competes against Lucid with trash talk.

And price cuts, to be fair.

 

[Drendino]

This is how predatory pricing strategies work. Accept less growth for a while to generate margins that support stock price growth and/or gain access to broader credit lines. Then stockpile that financial clout until circumstances become opportune to start delivering knock-out pricing punches to the competition.

A main defense against allegations of predatory pricing are showings of efficiency and cost reduction that independently justify the price reductions. Tesla has been loudly hyping their ever-increasing efficiencies to bolster this defense when needed. But the price cuts are coming too fast and too steep to be accounted for by cost reductions.

It's an old playbook still turned to by those who dare or feel immune to the reach of law. Musk fits that bill and is seizing the moment that he thinks Lucid and Rivian are presenting him right now, especially as both companies threaten Tesla on the technology front with continued acclaim from reviewers and awards while they struggle with sales numbers.

It's no coincidence that Sandy Munro, who Musk once thought was in his pocket, is now boring into Lucid's technology and coming up amazed, or that Lucid just won the World Luxury Car of the Year award from a panel of 100 international auto journalists, or that Rivian's pickup is getting rave reviews just as the bizarre Cybertruck is entering the lists.

If Musk can't vanquish them with technology and design, he'll do it with predatory pricing.

I actually see both sides of this issue, but at the end of the day this is the intended result of our Fed’s monetary tightening strategy. There are always winners and losers when the fed prints money and then tightens. Clearly Tesla won both ways and the recent tax credit that was essentially taken away from the startups and given to Tesla and the legacy auto manufacturers was just the icing on the cake.

This issue doesn’t exist in a vacuum and we can talk about all of the things that led to the price gauging that we have experienced in all sectors of the economy, from eggs to cars. The party is now over and the Fed isn’t going to stop raising rates until affordability is achieved, or we are forced into another recession. Tesla’s reductions are a direct consequence of these actions. Yes, it really sucks for Lucid and is unfair in a lot of ways.

 

[hmp10]

And price cuts, to be fair.

That, too. One does not preclude the other, of course.