Speculation "Since Last Charge" is confusing and pointless

[ScottWilliamsEsq]

If you find EPA ratings confusing or misleading you should voice your opinions with your congressman.

Actually, the EPA’s testing and rating procedures are established by career civil servants, not by law.

 

[dscafetta]

No car gets the EPA tested range in real world driving. I wouldn't say Lucid lied. They quote EPA range, which is perfectly legal and fine. Blame the EPA for their ridiculous testing procedures. And Edmunds, they dont have a clue what they are doing when testing cars. Corvette vs Lucid???? Really? Edmunds are a bunch of amateurs trying to get views to get popularity. I don't trust any of their testing!

Sorry but edmumnds has more sway than you...

 

[DBV]

It’s simpler for me
Have 7500 miles on my Air GT
4.0 efficiency total for all my miles thus far x 112kw battery =448 range . ( Not 516) I drive my style which is sometimes aggressive and sometimes not
When I drive a long distance trip which is not too often I charge when Convenient which obviously has to be before I go 448 miles
Not sure I can drive that far in a single session anymore
448 then is really 420 or so because charging is still not perfected out there away from home and need a reserve for sure
Still if you usually charge at home this only comes up for long trips so need to dwell on it because it’s an awesome ride

Thanks - that is very useful information. 448 is still awesome.

 

[Volund]

I'm going to throw this out there, but having driven the etron, and many other vehicles that have a bar that goes up and down in efficiency as you move your foot on and off the accelerator.
I would like to see a coasting feature that can tell you how you are currently driving to improve efficiency more

 

[dscafetta]

Agreed!

 

[borski]

Sorry but edmumnds has more sway than you...

An authority being wrong happens all the time. Sway or not, Edmunds can still be wrong.

 

[Halodde]

So 'Since last charge' includes phantom drain and the trip odometers do not. Is that the only difference? And can someone accurately tell me what phantom drain includes? I tried describing it to a friend and the best I could do was say that trip A and B only use energy consumed while driving. Is that accurate?

 

[hydbob]

So 'Since last charge' includes phantom drain and the trip odometers do not. Is that the only difference? And can someone accurately tell me what phantom drain includes? I tried describing it to a friend and the best I could do was say that trip A and B only use energy consumed while driving. Is that accurate?

Correct, kind of. Since last charge also includes energy used for HVAC and keeping the car on and any auxiliary systems. When people use the term phantom drain they are mainly referring to energy used while powered down and off.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I was on the waiting list for a Pure for several years but dropped out when the Genesis GV60 Performance became available in Arizona (one of only eight states). it checked as many of my boxes as the Lucid, just different ones. But I have gotten some perspective (IMO) from this. If we were given complete customization of all features on a car the manual would be ten thousand pages long and no one could figure it out (BMW was often criticized on its M cars for too many customization features). So each manufacturer makes decisions on which ones to set in stone and which ones to permit customization and how much of the latter. For example, my Genesis has current energy usage, since last charge and since the beginning (which can be reset to offer some more options but I suspect that one can't go back to forever once leaving it).

It is good and useful to indicate features we would like added. But ultimately, we have to decide if the car has the best set of features for our individual need and accept that there will be some features that operate in a manner that we don't love. For another example, Genesis put Michelin Primacy A/S tires on my vehicle which has almost 500 HP instead of shodding it with ultra performance summer tires (like it should have IMO and which I will soon do).

Genesis has made decisions on these features and some I like and some I would prefer be otherwise. Same for Lucid, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, etc. Add to that equation that we are all different in our desires and requirements and it is good that there are options out there. But, IMO, we should sit back sometimes and enjoy what we have which is pretty spectacular whether it is a Lucid Air or a Genesis GV60P.

 

[Halodde]

Correct, kind of. Since last charge also includes energy used for HVAC and keeping the car on and any auxiliary systems. When people use the term phantom drain they are mainly referring to energy used while powered down and off.

Thank you. But aren't HVAC and auxiliary system energy usage included the trip odometers during a drive also?

 

[Adnillien]

Thank you. But aren't HVAC and auxiliary system energy usage included the trip odometers during a drive also?

Usage during a drive are included in the trip numbers. Climate hold, remote climate, waking up the car, OTA updates etc. are in the since last charge but not in the trip calculation.

 

[Halodde]

Usage during a drive are included in the trip numbers. Climate hold, remote climate, waking up the car, OTA updates etc. are in the since last charge but not in the trip calculation.

TY. Sounds like I was pretty close when I said that since last charge includes everything and the trip odometers include everything while you're moving

 

[illopp00]

Correct, kind of. Since last charge also includes energy used for HVAC and keeping the car on and any auxiliary systems. When people use the term phantom drain they are mainly referring to energy used while powered down and off.

A huge amount of the difference is when you are doing 0 mph and running auxiliaries, HVAC and seat heating and massaging. Ultimately, I am finding the car in stop and go traffic is less efficient just like a gas car.

 

[Bobby]

A huge amount of the difference is when you are doing 0 mph and running auxiliaries, HVAC and seat heating and massaging. Ultimately, I am finding the car in stop and go traffic is less efficient just like a gas car.

It’s heavy. Takes lotsa power to get it moving.

 

[HariK]

I totally disagree that since the last charge is meaningless. Because it includes HVAC use and cooling the battery as needed or warming the battery as needed, it is the realistic miles per kWh.

Here is one possible way I can think of to predict the worst case range.

When we plugin, Lucid should remember the miles per kWh (PreChMkwh) since the last charge to predict the range after charging which is the current battery capacity (CKwh) multiplied by PreChMkwh) * SoC/100.

Example: If PreChMkwh was 3.3 and 92KWh is the battery capacity (real) S0C 100% 92*3.3*1 = 303miles is the worst case range (WcR) if SoC is 100% after the charge.

Then after the charging is over wait for the car to be driven for say 5% of WcR and take the average of PreChMkwh and since last charge miles per kWh CMkwh to update the range.

Example: After 15 miles (about 5% of 303 miles) say CMkwh is 3.5, then (PreChMkwh + CMkwh)/2 = (3.3 + 3.5)/2 = 3.4 is the new worst case miles per kwh. At this point if the car was driven 15 miles the SoC would have dropped to 95% or so. Now update the WcR to be 92*3.4*0.95 = 297 miles. It is OK to update the worst case range after 5% SoC.

I think this i kind of how ICE cars were doing it. They give you worst case number and then update it as you drive to reflect the current drive.

 

[Bobby]

I totally disagree that since the last charge is meaningless. Because it includes HVAC use and cooling the battery as needed or warming the battery as needed, it is the realistic miles per kWh.

Here is one possible way I can think of to predict the worst case range.

When we plugin, Lucid should remember the miles per kWh (PreChMkwh) since the last charge to predict the range after charging which is the current battery capacity (CKwh) multiplied by PreChMkwh) * SoC/100.

Example: If PreChMkwh was 3.3 and 92KWh is the battery capacity (real) S0C 100% 92*3.3*1 = 303miles is the worst case range (WcR) if SoC is 100% after the charge.

Then after the charging is over wait for the car to be driven for say 5% of WcR and take the average of PreChMkwh and since last charge miles per kWh CMkwh to update the range.

Example: After 15 miles (about 5% of 303 miles) say CMkwh is 3.5, then (PreChMkwh + CMkwh)/2 = (3.3 + 3.5)/2 = 3.4 is the new worst case miles per kwh. At this point if the car was driven 15 miles the SoC would have dropped to 95% or so. Now update the WcR to be 92*3.4*0.95 = 297 miles. It is OK to update the worst case range after 5% SoC.

I think this i kind of how ICE cars were doing it. They give you worst case number and then update it as you drive to reflect the current drive.

This is not a new suggestion. It has been discussed hundreds of times. I made a video about this long ago. Apparently, according to Lucid, there is no way to display actual miles remaining (based on a variety of factors, most of all recent efficiency) versus theoretical miles remaining (based on EPA). They say that the dashboard display is literally unable to know these numbers from another computer in the car. To me, this sounds absolutely ridiculous. The fact that a car that routinely does unbelievable computations cannot display this information simply can/should not be true. This is my number one gripe with the software. I'd like not to have to do my own math to figure out my miles remaining when I am on a trip.

I have discussed this issue with everybody I can at Lucid, including Peter himself, but to no avail.

 

[illopp00]

This is not a new suggestion. It has been discussed hundreds of times. I made a video about this long ago. Apparently, according to Lucid, there is no way to display actual miles remaining (based on a variety of factors, most of all recent efficiency) versus theoretical miles remaining (based on EPA). They say that the dashboard display is literally unable to know these numbers from another computer in the car. To me, this sounds absolutely ridiculous. The fact that a car that routinely does unbelievable computations cannot display this information simply can/should not be true. This is my number one gripe with the software. I'd like not to have to do my own math to figure out my miles remaining when I am on a trip.

I have discussed this issue with everybody I can at Lucid, including Peter himself, but to no avail.

I forgot to add the pre-conditioning aspect too, but I can see my SOC drop 3% just doing the 20 mins to the DC charger, which makes the Since Last Charge mi/kwh drop precipitously. The workaround for remaining miles since the last update is then I just set my home in the NAV and then it calculates on the left as opposed to the SOC which I leave in %. Definitely room for improvement.

 

[Bobby]

I forgot to add the pre-conditioning aspect too, but I can see my SOC drop 3% just doing the 20 mins to the DC charger, which makes the Since Last Charge mi/kwh drop precipitously. The workaround for remaining miles since the last update is then I just set my home in the NAV and then it calculates on the left as opposed to the SOC which I leave in %. Definitely room for improvement.

Except I choose to use CarPlay and I would like the miles remaining in the center of the dash to be accurate.

 

[larrycpa]

This is not a new suggestion. It has been discussed hundreds of times. I made a video about this long ago. Apparently, according to Lucid, there is no way to display actual miles remaining (based on a variety of factors, most of all recent efficiency) versus theoretical miles remaining (based on EPA). They say that the dashboard display is literally unable to know these numbers from another computer in the car. To me, this sounds absolutely ridiculous. The fact that a car that routinely does unbelievable computations cannot display this information simply can/should not be true. This is my number one gripe with the software. I'd like not to have to do my own math to figure out my miles remaining when I am on a trip.

I have discussed this issue with everybody I can at Lucid, including Peter himself, but to no avail.

My Bolt shows Max, expected, and Minimum. It keeps me from panicing.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Well @joec SIRI GT Range short cut solves this problem, it’s very accurate (as long as you reset one of your trip calculators so you know what your current efficiency is). It’s editable also, so if you have a Pure or Touring you can put in what your battery size is. I agree the car should be able to figure this out on its own, but the SIRI shortcut is a nice workaround for Apple users at least.