New member. Taking my chances.

[noobzilla]

I've had a frustrating yet fun but overall still frustrating tax exercise since two days ago. I'm glad I did this activity so now I know I actually have enough taxes to take advantage of the EV credit but at the same time I feel robbed by the IRA rules.

If anyone is curious about taxes particularly Net Operating Loss (NOL) carryover.

conclusion: There are income thresholds, first level being $75,900. Any income more than that which isn't offset by other deductions will reduce usable NOL carryforward. NOLc peaks at -$62,950 ($75,900 minus $12950 standard deduction). There is a "deadzone" where a certain amount of NOL does not reduce tax but also it's not past 80% of income so there's no carryover for the next year.

Refer to Form 6251 for more info.
--------------------------------

EXAMPLE
I have a significant business losses (Schedule K1) last year that will carryforward to 2022 (-$75000). This year I expect to make $67000 on wages and $43000 on short term capital gains for a total income of $110000. Been experimenting and I noticed that even if I lower my 2021 losses to about -$37000, my tax owed does not change. Meaning that that -$38000 losses is not giving me any benefit!

technical :
2021 Form 1045 line 1 NOL (-$75000) into 2022 Schedule 1 Other Income as NOL Deduction

experiments:

1. I need to increase my income to fully benefit from the full losses so I increase my wage by $20k, but tax goes up approximately by $5000 which is 25%. Again, my NOL still seems to be capped.
2. I filled out 1045 Schedule B to check if maybe that "unused" -$38k can carryforward to 2023, but it doesn't. Automated calculations from TaxAct software is basically showing that the 2021 losses is fully used, yet only half of it is really doing anything!
3. In Schedule 1 Other Income I removed -$30k from NOL line and added it elsewhere. I then added $30k extra wage. That seems to even it out.
4. (not taking standard deduction into account). $2M income. Only up -$1.3M NOL makes difference. I would need higher than 80% of $2M in NOL so it can carryforward to another year. Any NOL between -$1.3M and -$1.6M is wasted aka "deadzone". Difference higher than -$1.6M can be carried over to next year.

I may have some new lead. I was checking how taxes are affected whether I input the losses in NOL or anywhere else on Schedule 1. Currently checking out Alternative Minimum Tax, Form 6251. There's line E which is the NOL. It's adding NOL into 'alternative minimum taxable income'

Alrighty, I think I understand now. The culprit is indeed Form 6251. At the first income threshold, NOL carryforward deduction seem to peak $12950 (standard deduction) - $75,900 (as stated in form)= -$62,950. In my latest test, anything higher than a raw income of $75,900 diminishes the effect of NOL carryforward. I added $10,000 more income and my taxes are now $2647. I increase my NOL by -$10,000 to offset the additional income but it does nothing. Now I went the other way and kept decreasing my NOL and the new cap went down to -$49,555.

 

[noobzilla]

Looks like I will be canceling my fully loaded Touring 19" even if I can get delivery EOY.

Yesterday I was taking pictures of my violin set so I can list it for sale. I'm not selling it because I'm desperate for cash to pay the upcoming Touring but rather I want to rid of personal items I no longer use. I haven't used it so it's time to let go. It reminded me that I'm happier letting go of baggage instead of getting more things to make me feel better. When it comes to material possession, more is not always better.

It doesn't have to be separate objects. Think of one of your objects you like to use frequently like a phone or a favorite pen. Turn it into gold or make it diamond studded or whatever that significantly increases it's value to a point where you become uncomfortable using it on a regular basis or in public. The added financial value gives stress. Of course everyone has their own varying thresholds for wealth, desires and happiness.

As much as I adore the glass roof and Santa Cruz interior, again I'm questioning myself if it's truly worth it for me to get the Touring. I've been in this YOLO + FOMO + "I may not live long so just max out on what I can afford" mentality. But even if this Lucid would truly be my last car... even if $25k cash pops out of nowhere to pay for the difference... I'm getting this sense of guilt and stress from overindulging. I'll be suuuuuper happy with any Lucid trim really.

 

[Drendino]

Interestingly I am going through the same thing now. Trying to decide between Pure/AT or even AGT. My wife and kids are saying get whatever I want , but I am struggling to convince myself to splurge 60k more for AGT over Pure.

I generally don’t like to tell people how to spend their money, especially in an economic downturn. However, since you are considering getting a GT, I can strongly recommend biting the bullet and going for it. There is absolutely no feature that I would be ok with not having, after having lived with the car for almost 6,000 miles. The interior is beautiful, the range and performance is amazing and the sound system is studio quality when listening to Dolby Atmos.

I know others have had mixed results with HA, but I drove from Sonoma County to the Central Valley yesterday and used it 85% of the time with fantastic results. I’m not sure if it is getting better or if I’m just trusting it more, but it is such an enjoyable way to take a road trip. I know there is a lot of angst regarding people wanting HA to be a standard feature, with only using cameras. I truly believe that the use of Lidar is the secret sauce that in a short period of time will separate Lucid from the pack.

 

[borski]

Looks like I will be canceling my fully loaded Touring 19" even if I can get delivery EOY.

Yesterday I was taking pictures of my violin set so I can list it for sale. I'm not selling it because I'm desperate for cash to pay the upcoming Touring but rather I want to rid of personal items I no longer use. I haven't used it so it's time to let go. It reminded me that I'm happier letting go of baggage instead of getting more things to make me feel better. When it comes to material possession, more is not always better.

It doesn't have to be separate objects. Think of one of your objects you like to use frequently like a phone or a favorite pen. Turn it into gold or make it diamond studded or whatever that significantly increases it's value to a point where you become uncomfortable using it on a regular basis or in public. The added financial value gives stress. Of course everyone has their own varying thresholds for wealth, desires and happiness.

As much as I adore the glass roof and Santa Cruz interior, again I'm questioning myself if it's truly worth it for me to get the Touring. I've been in this YOLO + FOMO + "I may not live long so just max out on what I can afford" mentality. But even if this Lucid would truly be my last car... even if $25k cash pops out of nowhere to pay for the difference... I'm getting this sense of guilt and stress from overindulging. I'll be suuuuuper happy with any Lucid trim really.

Up to you, of course, but it’s not “overindulging” if it’s something you enjoy and/or makes you happy. The driving is what makes me happy, not having the car sit pet in a garage.

 

[noobzilla]

Up to you, of course, but it’s not “overindulging” if it’s something you enjoy and/or makes you happy. The driving is what makes me happy, not having the car sit pet in a garage.

I'd be super happy with a Pure! I was recalling my test drive experience and I didn't really notice or pay attention to the glass roof. The Air accelerates and responds so well that I really have to pay attention to the road. I'm going to be the driver 98% of the time. I want to purely enjoy the driving and not think "it's a 110k car I need to be extra careful, I should avoid and not park in sketch areas, I feel like I'm a show off if I let my friends see it (I dont like attention), I hope they dont ask how much it is (with Pure I can just say it's just a bit over a Model Y lol)". With the Pure I won't really be thinking of those. Less stress for me. huh... now the "Pure" label is starting to make sense to me

Another pro of metal roof is less glass potentially breaking. Sure, insurance will "cover" it but they always increase the premium to a point that I'm paying more out of pocket over time.

 

[ikonos]

I generally don’t like to tell people how to spend their money, especially in an economic downturn. However, since you are considering getting a GT, I can strongly recommend biting the bullet and going for it. There is absolutely no feature that I would be ok with not having, after having lived with the car for almost 6,000 miles. The interior is beautiful, the range and performance is amazing and the sound system is studio quality when listening to Dolby Atmos.

I know others have had mixed results with HA, but I drove from Sonoma County to the Central Valley yesterday and used it 85% of the time with fantastic results. I’m not sure if it is getting better or if I’m just trusting it more, but it is such an enjoyable way to take a road trip. I know there is a lot of angst regarding people wanting HA to be a standard feature, with only using cameras. I truly believe that the use of Lidar is the secret sauce that in a short period of time will separate Lucid from the pack.

@Drendino Thank you for your input. I decided to go with a fully loaded Touring. I am waiting for them to send me the invite to complete my order and hopefully I will get to enjoy it soon.

 

[ikonos]

I'd be super happy with a Pure! I was recalling my test drive experience and I didn't really notice or pay attention to the glass roof. The Air accelerates and responds so well that I really have to pay attention to the road. I'm going to be the driver 98% of the time. I want to purely enjoy the driving and not think "it's a 110k car I need to be extra careful, I should avoid and not park in sketch areas, I feel like I'm a show off if I let my friends see it (I dont like attention), I hope they dont ask how much it is (with Pure I can just say it's just a bit over a Model Y lol)". With the Pure I won't really be thinking of those. Less stress for me. huh... now the "Pure" label is starting to make sense to me

Another pro of metal roof is less glass potentially breaking. Sure, insurance will "cover" it but they always increase the premium to a point that I'm paying more out of pocket over time.

@noobzilla I know exactly how you feel and gone through similar motions. Even though I consider spending $125k on a car is waste of money, I am going through with it as I don't usually have expensive taste and this is probably one of the few things I am going to splurge on. I don't like to show off either and my wife is strongly advising me to go with Stellar White which is easy to blend in over the Zenith Red which may attract attention for some of the very reasons you listed because where have to park for work. All in all go with your gut and ignore the noises. There is no reason to go for a depreciating asset if you are not ok with it.

 

[Drendino]

@Drendino Thank you for your input. I decided to go with a fully loaded Touring. I am waiting for them to send me the invite to complete my order and hopefully I will get to enjoy it soon.

Excellent! I think you you will be very happy that you loaded it up.

 

[stratus]

Looks like I will be canceling my fully loaded Touring 19" even if I can get delivery EOY.

Yesterday I was taking pictures of my violin set so I can list it for sale. I'm not selling it because I'm desperate for cash to pay the upcoming Touring but rather I want to rid of personal items I no longer use. I haven't used it so it's time to let go. It reminded me that I'm happier letting go of baggage instead of getting more things to make me feel better. When it comes to material possession, more is not always better.

It doesn't have to be separate objects. Think of one of your objects you like to use frequently like a phone or a favorite pen. Turn it into gold or make it diamond studded or whatever that significantly increases it's value to a point where you become uncomfortable using it on a regular basis or in public. The added financial value gives stress. Of course everyone has their own varying thresholds for wealth, desires and happiness.

As much as I adore the glass roof and Santa Cruz interior, again I'm questioning myself if it's truly worth it for me to get the Touring. I've been in this YOLO + FOMO + "I may not live long so just max out on what I can afford" mentality. But even if this Lucid would truly be my last car... even if $25k cash pops out of nowhere to pay for the difference... I'm getting this sense of guilt and stress from overindulging. I'll be suuuuuper happy with any Lucid trim really.

You will be happy , regardless of the trim . The ride is incredibly relaxing, when you want it to be. Driving the car is almost like meditation .

The one thing I would really really recommend is to upgrade your stereo to surreal sound, so you can listen to Atmos. It is % worth it. I took some friends, one of whom is an absolute music fanatic, for a spin yesterday , and he was literally in shock and just wanted to sit in the car and listen to more. I have been waiting for an opportunity to share this with him and his family . I am not exaggerating at all about this; it’s frickin mind boggling.
I can live without Dream Drive Pro, but not surreal sound; that’s just my take.

I understand your concern about not being a show off. I really don’t think the vehicle is an in your face attention grabber. It garners looks and comments, but still has a discreetness to it.

Good luck.

 

[noobzilla]

You will be happy , regardless of the trim . The ride is incredibly relaxing, when you want it to be. Driving the car is almost like meditation .

The one thing I would really really recommend is to upgrade your stereo to surreal sound, so you can listen to Atmos. It is % worth it. I took some friends, one of whom is an absolute music fanatic, for a spin yesterday , and he was literally in shock and just wanted to sit in the car and listen to more. I have been waiting for an opportunity to share this with him and his family . I am not exaggerating at all about this; it’s frickin mind boggling.
I can live without Dream Drive Pro, but not surreal sound; that’s just my take.

I understand your concern about not being a show off. I really don’t think the vehicle is an in your face attention grabber. It garners looks and comments, but still has a discreetness to it.

Good luck.

Good to hear! Now I'm even more excited.

That's the plan! Get a car that drives so nice that I would want to take it out with or without destination haha. I have spent a lot on headphones and speakers so for sure will get the Surreal Sound Pro! I totally see myself just listening while charging the car too. The car drives super quiet which is very important so road noise doesn't drown those very tiny details. Perhaps a RWD will be even quieter.

I was able to hear the sound in a production car and was impressed by it. @copper did an in depth review of the sound system as was very impressed by it's performance. My priority will be the speaker upgrade > AWD > DDP.

 

[stratus]

Good to hear! Now I'm even more excited.

That's the plan! Get a car that drives so nice that I would want to take it out with or without destination haha. I have spent a lot on headphones and speakers so for sure will get the Surreal Sound Pro! I totally see myself just listening while charging the car too. The car drives super quiet which is very important so road noise doesn't drown those very tiny details. Perhaps a RWD will be even quieter.

I was able to hear the sound in a production car and was impressed by it. @copper did an in depth review of the sound system as was very impressed by it's performance. My priority will be the speaker upgrade > AWD > DDP.

I think RWD will be quieter and have less motor whine. I personally don’t mind the noise. I don’t know where you live, but if you are in snow country , AWD is a must.
If I lived in a temperate climate, I may have just gone for RWD.
Glad that the speakers are a priority!! The only thing I wish, and this has nothing to do with Lucid, is for more Atmos encoded tracks. That being said, Tidal adds each month. Additionally, I now love songs that I used to be completely indifferent to.
Dream Drive Pro is cool, but for me, not essential; however, I live in a smaller community, don’t have to deal with much traffic or craziness,etc.

 

[noobzilla]

I think RWD will be quieter and have less motor whine. I personally don’t mind the noise. I don’t know where you live, but if you are in snow country , AWD is a must.
If I lived in a temperate climate, I may have just gone for RWD.
Glad that the speakers are a priority!! The only thing I wish, and this has nothing to do with Lucid, is for more Atmos encoded tracks. That being said, Tidal adds each month. Additionally, I now live songs that I used to be completely indifferent to.
Dream Drive Pro is cool, but for me, not essential; however, I live in a smaller community, don’t have to deal with much traffic or craziness,etc.

No snow in my area. Family frequently visits the mountains although I just take a ride with them so chances of me actually needing AWD is slim but it would be nice to be snow ready in case needed.

Wouldnt DDP be more ideal in less traffic? I'd be more comfortable using self drive on a quiet road vs busy traffic

 

[borski]

No snow in my area. Family frequently visits the mountains although I just take a ride with them so chances of me actually needing AWD is slim but it would be nice to be snow ready in case needed.

Wouldnt DDP be more ideal in less traffic? I'd be more comfortable using self drive on a quiet road vs busy traffic

You’re gonna love it; having sat in the Pure at the BH launch, I was initially skeptical of the metal roof because of worries of it feeling claustrophobic but they worked their magic again and it is spectacular. All wrapped in alcantara and I just wanted to keep touching it haha.

The rear seats with the footwells are a dream. Never been more comfortable.

I wouldn’t trade in my DE, heh, but that was my first ever large purchase (not counting my house) and I wanted to be early - took it with the good and the bad, and I’m glad I did.

You’re gonna love the Pure. I have a buddy who came with me to an owners’ event and it caused him to reserve his Pure too.

 

[stratus]

No snow in my area. Family frequently visits the mountains although I just take a ride with them so chances of me actually needing AWD is slim but it would be nice to be snow ready in case needed.

Wouldnt DDP be more ideal in less traffic? I'd be more comfortable using self drive on a quiet road vs busy traffic

Yes, you have an excellent point with DDP. I was talking about in the context of safety features, and avoidance of collisions.

 

[noobzilla]

You’re gonna love it; having sat in the Pure at the BH launch, I was initially skeptical of the metal roof because of worries of it feeling claustrophobic but they worked their magic again and it is spectacular. All wrapped in alcantara and I just wanted to keep touching it haha.

The rear seats with the footwells are a dream. Never been more comfortable.

I wouldn’t trade in my DE, heh, but that was my first ever large purchase (not counting my house) and I wanted to be early - took it with the good and the bad, and I’m glad I did.

You’re gonna love the Pure. I have a buddy who came with me to an owners’ event and it caused him to reserve his Pure too.

Thanks for pointing that out! Just checked the design page and compared regular Mojave purluxe vs alcantara. Alcantara looks nice! I'm sold on that! Now I'm tempted to switch back to white exterior. I'm a sucker for black and white!

Did the metal roof reduce your field of vision as a driver?

 

[borski]

Thanks for pointing that out! Just checked the design page and compared regular Mojave purluxe vs alcantara. Alcantara looks nice! I'm sold on that! Now I'm tempted to switch back to white exterior. I'm a sucker for black and white!

Did the metal roof reduce your field of vision as a driver?


View attachment 6921

No, they actually lengthened the glass on both ends to make it feel less claustrophobic and have better visibility. Granted, I was in a showroom, but it seemed fine.

 

[SDHacker]

No snow in my area. Family frequently visits the mountains although I just take a ride with them so chances of me actually needing AWD is slim but it would be nice to be snow ready in case needed.

Wouldnt DDP be more ideal in less traffic? I'd be more comfortable using self drive on a quiet road vs busy traffic

Assuming DDP = HA plus future enhancements, you’ll build confidence in using it regardless of traffic conditions. It takes the stress out of being in heavy traffic and helps with the boredom of long featureless landscapes. The first few times using ACC/HA, yeah, making sure it slows approaching slowdowns, takes the curves is something you’ll be on high alert for

 

[noobzilla]

Yes, you have an excellent point with DDP. I was talking about in the context of safety features, and avoidance of collisions.

eff it! After speaking to my mom just explaining where things are ie gray area on EV credit eligibility, why I'm canceling my fully loaded 19" touring, and if I still want DDPro on my Pure... I did add DDPro so I don't have to worry about camera, have all the collision and safety features, and maybe self-drive in the future even though I distrust self-drive in general. I think it's a fair compromise from downgrading from Touring which is what I initially really wanted.

My Pure order has been finalized and this is the car I will be getting.

Reservation: March 29, 2022
Confirmed: August 10, 2022
Finalized: November 22, 2022

AWD
19"
Fathom Blue
Mojave & Alcantara
DDPro
SSPro

 

[stratus]

eff it! After speaking to my mom just explaining where things are ie gray area on EV credit eligibility, why I'm canceling my fully loaded 19" touring, and if I still want DDPro on my Pure... I did add DDPro so I don't have to worry about camera, have all the collision and safety features, and maybe self-drive in the future even though I distrust self-drive in general. I think it's a fair compromise from downgrading from Touring which is what I initially really wanted.

My Pure order has been finalized and this is the car I will be getting.

Reservation: March 29, 2022
Confirmed: August 10, 2022
Finalized: November 22, 2022

AWD
19"
Fathom Blue
Mojave & Alcantara
DDPro
SSPro

Oh yeah!!! Congratulations.
That blue color is so damn beautiful. I sooooooo wish I had that option when I ordered. I am really happy for you.

 

[noobzilla]

I just enjoyed myself writing this long piece about my take on the new EV credit whether our confirmed orders pre-new EV credit policy qualifies. This activity made me miss my political science and public policy courses haha.

tldr: My opinion is it doesn't because Lucid limited itself to the $300/$1000 deposit amount maximum for breaching an agreement to purchase, which I doubt will be considered substantial.