NACS (Tesla adapter) versus CCS Megathread

[Tâm]

Thanks. I'll take a look at this article.

Update: SAE met today, Tuesday:

"The new SAE NACS connector standard will be developed on an expedited timeframe and is one of several key initiatives to strengthen the North American EV charging infrastructure,"

Tesla charging technology put on fast track to become US industry standard

Tesla's electric-vehicle charging technology is being put on a fast track to become a U.S. standard, the automotive industry group of engineers that reviews standards said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Tesla2.0]

Electric Volvo car Drivers to Gain Access to Tesla Superchargers in the US, Canada & Mexico

Volvo Cars is the first European car maker to sign an agreement with Tesla, giving current and future electric Volvo car drivers access to Tesla’s Supercharger network across the United States,...

www.autofutures.tv

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673715275521310720

So… Polestar might be next? It only has 260 miles range, can use more charging.

 

[quantum]

Source? I didn’t see the official Press Release from Mercedes that they’re switching or announcing a switch to NACS soon.

The word “considering” is not a guarantee of switching to NACS.

No source, speculation on my part. Apologies for that. It’s a no brainer for Mercedes I think, they can save money instead of building their own charging network.

 

[KenAir]

Now that Ford, GM, Rivian, and Volvo are all switching to NACS, and the SAE will take over independent authority of the standard, the battle is over. The USA EV industry is going to NACS.

The next question is, will Lucid eventually sell us a NACS to CCS adapter for our existing cars?

 

[hydbob]

Now that Ford, GM, Rivian, and Volvo are all switching to NACS, and the SAE will take over independent authority of the standard, the battle is over. The USA EV industry is going to NACS.

The next question is, will Lucid eventually sell us a NACS to CCS adapter for our existing cars?

Doesn't have to be Lucid. Once NACS becomes the standard, plenty of 3rd party companies can make the adapter and get approval from SAE. What really needs to happen is not Lucid swapping to NACS port, but Lucid cutting a deal with Tesla to gain access to the Supercharger Network, but until the V4 charger are deployed, it's a moot point. 50kw charging is not good.

 

[martinmeyer]

I’m hoping Lucid will offer a retrofit to replace the current CCS 1 port on my air with an NACS port eventually. I hate using an adapter at home to convert it to my preexisting Tesla wall charger’s cable, and using CCS at fast chargers is a nuisance. NACS really is a much better connector.

 

[joec]

I’m hoping Lucid will offer a retrofit to replace the current CCS 1 port on my air with an NACS port eventually. I hate using an adapter at home to convert it to my preexisting Tesla wall charger’s cable, and using CCS at fast chargers is a nuisance. NACS really is a much better connector.

I wouldn’t get my hopes up for that. This would a major retrofit. If Lucid goes NACS at all, it won’t be for a few more years. An adapter for those of us who bought already is the most we will get. And that will not likely be free.

For cars purchased after they announce they will go to NACS, sure.

 

[Tâm]

No source, speculation on my part. Apologies for that. It’s a no brainer for Mercedes I think, they can save money instead of building their own charging network.

It's a good speculation. Elon Musk and former Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche used to exchange praises with each other.

Daimler used to own 10% of Tesla in the early days.

Good healthy competition between the two.

 

[MorganB]

Doesn't have to be Lucid. Once NACS becomes the standard, plenty of 3rd party companies can make the adapter and get approval from SAE. What really needs to happen is not Lucid swapping to NACS port, but Lucid cutting a deal with Tesla to gain access to the Supercharger Network, but until the V4 charger are deployed, it's a moot point. 50kw charging is not good.

I've been wondering about this. The payment system is already in place in the Supercharger Network for any EV including Lucid. So why would Lucid need to cut a deal other than to include the NACS port in the future? I suppose Tesla could restrict open charging to magic dock stations only and require a manufacturer to have cut a deal for access to the full network but thats a bit counterintuitive and certainly goes against what Musk says (FWIW).

Also here's the progression with Lucid:

1. Signs deal and provides adapter
2. Everyone that has a current Lucid screams about the wonder box charging speed limitation and so we have a new 45 page thread about how horrible lucid is for not updating the wonderbox
3. In 2025 Lucid starts delivering with NACS and perhaps a wonder box that allows faster speeds on the slower voltage chargers
4. Everyone with 2022 and 2023 Airs screams and starts another 45 page thread about how horrible Lucid is for not changing the wonder box in our vehicles for free.

 

[joec]

I've been wondering about this. The payment system is already in place in the Supercharger Network for any EV including Lucid. So why would Lucid need to cut a deal other than to include the NACS port in the future? I suppose Tesla could restrict open charging to magic dock stations only and require a manufacturer to have cut a deal for access to the full network but thats a bit counterintuitive and certainly goes against what Musk says (FWIW).

For one thing, I wouldn't want to have to keep the Tesla app installed on my phone just to charge at Supercharger stations. Personally, I'd much rather see Plug and charge "just work" automatically. Or at least let me initiate a charge from the Lucid app.

I also would want to see Superchargers show up when searching for a station via the Nav. Complete with current availability. I'm guessing Tesla could create an easy enough public API for that, if it doesn't exist already.

But point taken. If Telsa makes it a feature of their own app to simply allow any EV to charge at any qualifying station, that would likely be in their best interest, too.

 

[joec]

It definitely would suck for Lucid to have every one of their customers constantly launching a Tesla-branded app to charge. That app is a billboard for their competition.

 

[MorganB]

For one thing, I wouldn't want to have to keep the Tesla app installed on my phone just to charge at Supercharger stations. Personally, I'd much rather see Plug and charge "just work" automatically. Or at least let me initiate a charge from the Lucid app.

I also would want to see Superchargers show up when searching for a station via the Nav. Complete with current availability. I'm guessing Tesla could create an easy enough public API for that, if it doesn't exist already.

But point taken. If Telsa makes it a feature of their own app to simply allow any EV to charge at any qualifying station, that would likely be in their best interest, too.

I agree that plug and play charging is the way to go. I'm curious when that will start for brands other than Tesla at the SuperCharger network. Volvo is middle of 2024 with an adapter and they can find the station in the Volvo app but it doesn't really mention plug and play charging. I think it will be 2025 before we really see integration. GM is horrible about keeping promises. I had a LYRIQ on order and they miserably dropped the ball on that.

 

[Rob Stark]

If Lucid goes NACS at all, it won’t be for a few more years.

Peter said Superchargers need to charge at 800v plus before Lucid considers changing.

That could be as soon as this September.

The writing is on the wall. Everyone selling cars inside the USA will switch to NACS eventually.

 

[Tâm]

I've been wondering about this. The payment system is already in place in the Supercharger Network for any EV including Lucid. So why would Lucid need to cut a deal

I understood it as: Ford and GM owners do not need to register with Tesla. Things are seamless with Ford BluOval app and GM Ultium Charge 360. No bothering with Tesla app if owners don't want to.

other than to include the NACS port in the future?

Yes. That's part of a deal for 2024 CCS cars with the deal.

I suppose Tesla could restrict open charging to magic dock stations only

Tesla has to get an owner's info if there's no deal.

The deal would shift the registration to deal companies like Ford BluOval app and GM Ultium Charge 360.

require a manufacturer to have cut a deal for access to the full network

Their goal is no adapters. Adapters are another potential point of failure.

The deal will ensure all the deal-cars will have no adapter needed for Superchargers in the future when CCS goes extinction.

but thats a bit counterintuitive and certainly goes against what Musk says (FWIW).

My guess is Magic Dock is not a preferred way. Adapterless is the preferred way for Tesla.

Also here's the progression with Lucid:

1. Signs deal and provides adapter
2. Everyone that has a current Lucid screams about the wonder box charging speed limitation and so we have a new 45 page thread about how horrible lucid is for not updating the wonderbox

It might be too late to complain about 50 kW, but I rationalize that is a fallback option for Lucid just like a spare tire. With a full size tire, I can drive at full speed. When I got a flat and I put on a doughnut spare tire, my fastest speed would be 50 MPH. I am not going to drive 50 MPH until I must. It's a redundancy system to get me to the destination even with less speed.

3. In 2025 Lucid starts delivering with NACS and perhaps a wonder box that allows faster speeds on the slower voltage chargers

It's possible to redesign for dual use with decent speed, just like GM Hummer 350 kW at 800V and 250 kW at 400V, automatic switchable but I wouldn't count on it: Too expensive!!

4. Everyone with 2022 and 2023 Airs screams and starts another 45 page thread about how horrible Lucid is for not changing the wonder box in our vehicles for free.

We are future-proof, and there's a price to pay: The issue is the present obsolete slower 400V stations. There's no need to use them unless all 800V stations in the vicinity are out of order (and that's what a deal is for: safety net just in case).

 

[KenAir]

I hope Lucid decides to switch to NACS for the Gravity. I personally would not buy another EV that uses CCS, as it is clear the standard will be NACS. I have two CCS cars now but don't want a third. Sales may slow if buyers know they are getting a soon to be obsolete charging plug. Maybe Lucid will have to guarantee an adapter or future retrofit if they stick with CCS. Seems like there is enough time to switch to NACS before they start building the first Gravity models.

 

[Volund]

For one thing, I wouldn't want to have to keep the Tesla app installed on my phone just to charge at Supercharger stations. Personally, I'd much rather see Plug and charge "just work" automatically. Or at least let me initiate a charge from the Lucid app.

I also would want to see Superchargers show up when searching for a station via the Nav. Complete with current availability. I'm guessing Tesla could create an easy enough public API for that, if it doesn't exist already.

But point taken. If Telsa makes it a feature of their own app to simply allow any EV to charge at any qualifying station, that would likely be in their best interest, too.

This reminds me of the Apple vs Android debate.

Apple users (Tesla in this case) can send SMS to each other and it all works seamlessly and same with communication because of the same ecosystem.

Whereas Android users (Lucid and other EV manufacturers using CCS) can communicate with each other with certain limitations, bugs and problems are apparent and the handshake for communication is not seamless.

Now that also goes hand in hand with like USB A and USB C.

So if were treading the same path, these will be gripes and problems for a decade or more before there is serious push for CCS to become as seamless as NACS.

In that category, NACS will always win.

 

[ViperSSD]

I understood it as: Ford and GM owners do not need to register with Tesla. Things are seamless with Ford BluOval app and GM Ultium Charge 360. No bothering with Tesla app if owners don't want to.

Yes. That's part of a deal for 2024 CCS cars with the deal.

Tesla has to get an owner's info if there's no deal.

The deal would shift the registration to deal companies like Ford BluOval app and GM Ultium Charge 360.


Their goal is no adapters. Adapters are another potential point of failure.

The deal will ensure all the deal-cars will have no adapter needed for Superchargers in the future when CCS goes extinction.


My guess is Magic Dock is not a preferred way. Adapterless is the preferred way for Tesla.

It might be too late to complain about 50 kW, but I rationalize that is a fallback option for Lucid just like a spare tire. With a full size tire, I can drive at full speed. When I got a flat and I put on a doughnut spare tire, my fastest speed would be 50 MPH. I am not going to drive 50 MPH until I must. It's a redundancy system to get me to the destination even with less speed.

It's possible to redesign for dual use with decent speed, just like GM Hummer 350 kW at 800V and 250 kW at 400V, automatic switchable but I wouldn't count on it: Too expensive!!

We are future-proof, and there's a price to pay: The issue is the present obsolete slower 400V stations. There's no need to use them unless all 800V stations in the vicinity are out of order (and that's what a deal is for: safety net just in case).

GM's Ultium pack design and construction is really what allows it to be capable at 800v and 400v simultaneously, it basically operates like a 400v pack in most cases but for 800v charging, it switches from being wired in parallel to being wired in series. Its a pretty smart way to get faster charging without having to invest in more the expensive (but also more efficient) 800v architecture everywhere.

 

[BobFM]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1674408745793736704

 

[thecodingart]

So 2025 is the reasonable timeline for Lucid + NACS.

They seriously need to announce something now..

Electrify America to add North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector by 2025

Electrify America to add North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector by 2025

www.investorsobserver.com

 

[HC_79]

So 2025 is the reasonable timeline for Lucid + NACS.

They seriously need to announce something now..

Electrify America to add North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector by 2025

Electrify America to add North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector by 2025

www.investorsobserver.com

Would you buy a car today with a CCS port if the company announced that it's going to be phased out? I wouldn't, i'd wait. Something to be said about saying something early given in the scheme of things 18 months isn't that far away. People may opt to wait on buying a car until it has a NACS port natively integrated. Until Tesla shows it can deliver a V4 charger at 1000v then Lucid shouldn't say a word. Whilst the V4 chargers in Europe are indeed 1000v they're only having 500v delivered to them so they're effectively operating like V3's. So to date, Tesla hasn't shown any of us it's 1000v rollout plan or actually delivering 1000v to any vehicle on the market today. Without this information the moment Lucid announces a NACS transition people will focus on the 50Kw charging speed and nothing else.