NACS (Tesla adapter) versus CCS Megathread

[Tâm]

I did some searching on this, and while it doesn't seem to be guaranteed, it does seem to be highly likely.

I guess my question is that, if the Cybertruck is released with the requirement for higher voltage, does that mean the existing Supercharger network will be as (near) useless to them as it would be capped to 50 kW charging speeds? This seems like it would be a crazy decision on Tesla's part, as I'd imagine most Cybertruck owners wouldn't realize this and would be pretty pissed if this were the case. Of course, maybe Tesla will have made more progress on v4 charging by the time Cybertruck eventually is released.

In any case, this would be great news for Lucid and other high voltage battery cars like Porsche and Kia, as Tesla would have a strong internal incentive to upgrade their Supercharger network.

Correct. It's not guaranteed. 1 mW Cybertruck is only verbally confirmed but nothing written down.

Tycan comes with 800V 277 kW speed, but it would go down to 50 kW on a 400v station like Supercharger. As a consolation prize, an owner can pay $460 for an option to charge at 150 kW speed instead of 50 kW at a 400V station.

Who knows, Cybertruck might have a similar option, but there's no mention of this at all. Otherwise, they might have to settle for 50 kW while waiting for 1,000V Superchargers. That might sound bad, but I see places with 72 kW Urban Superchargers, slow but they are very popular. There are only 5 out 24 left at Westminster Shopping Mall, CA station:

 

[Tâm]

A few days ago, Texas was the first that required NACS if a charging station company wanted government funding.

Now, Washington State is the second:

"we are planning to require NACS at our state funded and federally funded sites in the future."

Washington state plans to mandate Tesla's charging plug

Washington state plans to require electric vehicle charging companies to include Tesla's plug if they want to be part of a state program to electrify highways using federal dollars, an official told Reuters on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

 

[changinator]

I did some searching on this, and while it doesn't seem to be guaranteed, it does seem to be highly likely.

I guess my question is that, if the Cybertruck is released with the requirement for higher voltage, does that mean the existing Supercharger network will be as (near) useless to them as it would be capped to 50 kW charging speeds? This seems like it would be a crazy decision on Tesla's part, as I'd imagine most Cybertruck owners wouldn't realize this and would be pretty pissed if this were the case. Of course, maybe Tesla will have made more progress on v4 charging by the time Cybertruck eventually is released.

In any case, this would be great news for Lucid and other high voltage battery cars like Porsche and Kia, as Tesla would have a strong internal incentive to upgrade their Supercharger network.

or most likely the cybertruck will be capable of charging at both 400v v3 and the up to 1000v v4 superchargers. if the porsche taycan can do both 400v at up to 150kwh and 800v charging since 2020, tesla should be able to design a next-gen onboard charger on the cybertruck that is still in development

plus it's not like it'll be overnight that v3 superchargers will all be upgraded to v4 superchargers, or that they'll build enough v4 chargers everywhere in a short time just to be ready for cybertruck

 

[hydbob]

or most likely the cybertruck will be capable of charging at both 400v v3 and the up to 1000v v4 superchargers. if the porsche taycan can do both 400v at up to 150kwh and 800v charging since 2020, tesla should be able to design a next-gen onboard charger on the cybertruck that is still in development

That would totally be against their strategy of minimizing hardware.

 

[changinator]

That would totally be against their strategy of minimizing hardware.

aren't they only minimizing hardware for their entry level vehicles, the 3 and y?

 

[Tâm]

That would totally be against their strategy of minimizing hardware.

True, but not always.

For example, Tesla initially removed radar from all trims, including the high-priced Model S and Model X, claiming it's no longer needed for Tesla Vision.

However, it has returned the radar in Model S and X this year in 2023 without giving any reasons and even though it's not in use.

Tesla teardown confirms the presence of the new radar in HW4-equipped vehicles - Tesla Oracle

Tesla equips its new vehicles with Hardware 4 (HW4) with the radar once again. Check out the new radar's closeup pictures and FCC information.

www.teslaoracle.com

 

[Tâm]

or most likely the cybertruck will be capable of charging at both 400v v3 and the up to 1000v v4 superchargers. if the porsche taycan can do both 400v at up to 150kwh and 800v charging since 2020, tesla should be able to design a next-gen onboard charger on the cybertruck that is still in development

plus it's not like it'll be overnight that v3 superchargers will all be upgraded to v4 superchargers, or that they'll build enough v4 chargers everywhere in a short time just to be ready for cybertruck

It looks like GM has found a way to fast 400V and 800V in one single car. Each car has 2 packs of 400V each. Then when needed, "virtually" switch them in series. Thus, 250 kW at 400V parallel and 350 kW at 800V when "virtually" switching the battery pack into series. It's an emulation just like playing Windows in an Apple computer! Genius! Not a theory, it's in the Hummer!

GM’s Ultium Electric Car Platform Technology: Everything You Need to Know

GM plans to make EVs profitable through savvy engineering, not marketing.

www.motortrend.com

 

[quantum]

You sound like a consumer

If you are an engineer, wouldn't you tell me CCS is much more muscular by just looking at its cable?

View attachment 13101

I am not an engineer so I like the small single form factor from NACS for both AC and fast DC too.

CCS is thicker because it has cooling for up to 1000V charging. NACS plg-in doesnt have any cooling. Its useless for higher voltage.

 

[thecodingart]

CCS is thicker because it has cooling for up to 1000V charging. NACS plg-in doesnt have any cooling. Its useless for higher voltage.

This isn’t really true… the connectors also have nothing to do with cooling…

 

[c0mbe]

I couldn’t care less about the charging speed, the electrical properties or the theoretical advantages of CCS. It’s a worthless connector, and needs to be retired. I’m a consumer. I charge at home 90% of the time, and when I am on the road I want the best experience. That is NACS.

 

[thecodingart]

I couldn’t care less about the charging speed, the electrical properties or the theoretical advantages of CCS. It’s a worthless connector, and needs to be retired. I’m a consumer. I charge at home 90% of the time, and when I am on the road I want the best experience. That is NACS.

And this is just a senseless comment with no foundation to fall on…

 

[Bobby]

I couldn’t care less about the charging speed, the electrical properties or the theoretical advantages of CCS. It’s a worthless connector, and needs to be retired. I’m a consumer. I charge at home 90% of the time, and when I am on the road I want the best experience. That is NACS.

Disagree. If you have read the rest of this thread, you will have noticed that the current NACS maximum charge speed with our vehicle is 50. I just charged a few minutes ago at EA in excess of 150. That is by far still the best option, for now. I imagine this whole issue will iron itself out in the future, though.

 

[thecodingart]

Disagree. If you have read the rest of this thread, you will have noticed that the current NACS maximum charge speed with our vehicle is 50. I just charged a few minutes ago at EA in excess of 150. That is by far still the best option, for now. I imagine this whole issue will iron itself out in the future, though.

To elaborate a bit, this has more to do with Supercharger stuff and not NACS or CCS.

 

[c0mbe]

Disagree. If you have read the rest of this thread, you will have noticed that the current NACS maximum charge speed with our vehicle is 50. I just charged a few minutes ago at EA in excess of 150. That is by far still the best option, for now. I imagine this whole issue will iron itself out in the future, though.

I understand that. My post was not intended to stir anything but rather express an opinion that my preference (and the preference of the vast majority of EV users) is to have lucid adopt NACS.

 

[Neurio]

I understand that. My post was not intended to stir anything but rather express an opinion that my preference (and the preference of the vast majority of EV users) is to have lucid adopt NACS.

Say that when you're road tripping and it takes 90 minutes to charge your car enough to get to the next stop...

 

[Tâm]

CCS is thicker because it has cooling for up to 1000V charging. NACS plg-in doesnt have any cooling. Its useless for higher voltage.

NACS does call for 1,000V and 1 mW (Lucid only needs 0.350 mW), and to get the NEVI funding, Tesla needs to meet the minimum voltage of 920V requirement so it is doubtful that Tesla wants to fail the requirement in order to purposefully refuse the NEVI funding.

Both Superchargers V3 and V4 have active liquid coolant systems running through the cables:

Tesla CyberTruck is rumored coming this year (candidate version), and its capability is confirmed with 1 mW, 1,000V:

Tesla Semi is the first of several EVs to feature a thousand-volt powertrain

Priestley highlighted that the Semi is so powerful, it has three times the power of any diesel truck on the road today.

www.teslarati.com

 

[quantum]

This isn’t really true… the connectors also have nothing to do with cooling…

The Tesla NACS plug cannot be cooled for higher 1OOO voltages. They need to redesign. That design has not been tested for safety. Still an " idea "

 

[quantum]

The Tesla NACS plug cannot be cooled for higher voltages. They need to redesign.

I couldn’t care less about the charging speed, the electrical properties or the theoretical advantages of CCS. It’s a worthless connector, and needs to be retired. I’m a consumer. I charge at home 90% of the time, and when I am on the road I want the best experience. That is NACS.

Going to the NACS monopolized by one car manufacturer is not the right way to go. I would rather like to see improvements in CCS service and reliability than see everyone go to NACS

 

[quantum]

NACS does call for 1,000V and 1 mW (Lucid only needs 0.350 mW), and to get the NEVI funding, Tesla needs to meet the minimum voltage of 920V requirement so it is doubtful that Tesla wants to fail the requirement in order to purposefully refuse the NEVI funding.

Both Superchargers V3 and V4 have active liquid coolant systems running through the cables:

Tesla CyberTruck is rumored coming this year (candidate version), and its capability is confirmed with 1 mW, 1,000V:

Tesla Semi is the first of several EVs to feature a thousand-volt powertrain

Priestley highlighted that the Semi is so powerful, it has three times the power of any diesel truck on the road today.

www.teslarati.com

I dont think they are releasing it with 1000V. Initial trucks will be the same 400V architecture.

 

[quantum]

I couldn’t care less about the charging speed, the electrical properties or the theoretical advantages of CCS. It’s a worthless connector, and needs to be retired. I’m a consumer. I charge at home 90% of the time, and when I am on the road I want the best experience. That is NACS.

You want reliability,but not speed?? My few EA charging experiences were seemless. Still faster than any Tesla charging I did in the past. Plugged in my Lucid, charged straight away. No issue at all! I know EA can do better, but they are not as bad as some people believe.