mi/$ not that great in CA for EVs?

[PewPew]

Price per kWh with PGE is around $0.38. That means that if you're doing ~3 mi/kWh, you're getting about 7.9mi/$. Gas prices are ~$4.25, which means that you're getting ~33mpg equivalent. In reality, with vampire drain and such, I'm doing closer to 2.5mi/kWh which is ~27mpg equivalent. Feels like with CA's combination of gas and electricity prices, it's not super worth it?

I have solar so it definitely makes sense for me, but I was surprised when I did the math

 

[momo3605]

Yup, as the number of EVs increase and ICE cars decrease over time, I think electricity prices will continue to go up and gas prices will decrease. It’s all supply and demand.

Not only that, you don’t get free carpool access anymore, you get charged extra on your registration, and you don’t get the CA rebate anymore either. EVs are only surviving right now because of the steep discounts and incentives from manufacturers. I’m not sure what’ll happen long term if automakers go the way of Ford and start cutting EV production

 

[joec]

Yup, as the number of EVs increase and ICE cars decrease over time, I think electricity prices will continue to go up and gas prices will decrease. It’s all supply and demand.

Not only that, you don’t get free carpool access anymore, you get charged extra on your registration, and you don’t get the CA rebate anymore either. EVs are only surviving right now because of the steep discounts and incentives from manufacturers. I’m not sure what’ll happen long term if automakers go the way of Ford and start cutting EV production

Gas prices won't decrease much. They'll just choke supply as needed.

 

[momo3605]

Gas prices won't decrease much. They'll just choke supply as needed.

maybe...but it won't take much, electricity rates have double in 2 years and gas prices have dropped 20% in 2 years (at least in CA). So 30mpg equivalent is not far off what you would get in a non-hybrid sedan in freeway driving for instance. Probably another year or two and i expect electric rates to continue to increase while gas prices stay steady or drop some more.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

The current off peak rate for EV TOU PG&E is $.26/Kwh. So also assuming your 3mi/kWh would be 49 miles per gallon equivalent at $4.25/gallon. I'm actually averaging 3.2 mi/kWh to that comes out to 52 mpg equivalent. Also, I don't think we are seeing $4.25/gallon in this area for premium gas which would be necessary in an ICE car equivalent in performance/comfort to the Lucid. And then you add in the cost of maintenance for an ICE car vs EV.

 

[Neurio]

Price per kWh with PGE is around $0.38. That means that if you're doing ~3 mi/kWh, you're getting about 7.9mi/$. Gas prices are ~$4.25, which means that you're getting ~33mpg equivalent. In reality, with vampire drain and such, I'm doing closer to 2.5mi/kWh which is ~27mpg equivalent. Feels like with CA's combination of gas and electricity prices, it's not super worth it?

I have solar so it definitely makes sense for me, but I was surprised when I did the math

According to AAA (https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=CA), the average cost of premium gas is currently $5.07, so your calculations are a bit off. You'd need to use premium gas rather than regular because any luxury vehicle would likely require premium.

That said, I'd take 27 mpg from a car with 819 hp any day...

 

[Negan1000]

Price per kWh with PGE is around $0.38. That means that if you're doing ~3 mi/kWh, you're getting about 7.9mi/$. Gas prices are ~$4.25, which means that you're getting ~33mpg equivalent. In reality, with vampire drain and such, I'm doing closer to 2.5mi/kWh which is ~27mpg equivalent. Feels like with CA's combination of gas and electricity prices, it's not super worth it?

I have solar so it definitely makes sense for me, but I was surprised when I did the math

Depending on your electricity usage and TOU you can get a lower EV rate for charging overnight.

 

[borski]

It’s all supply and demand.

… and taxes.

you get charged extra on your registration

No, you don’t; gas cars pay a gas tax, EVs pay an EV tax. It’s not “more”; it’s actually less, just charged at reg time instead of buying-gas time.

you don’t get free carpool access anymore

Yup you do, until 2025.

Gas prices may come down a little bit, but not very much. The reason EVs are surviving right now is because, long-term, they’re better cars - much less to maintain, longer brake life, and so on.

But it will take plenty of time to get there.

Also, I charge for $0.08-$0.13, after midnight and before 3pm, on SVCE/PGE’s E-ELEC plan: https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Residential-Rate-Update-01.2023-_formatted_digital.pdf

(Those aren’t the full bundled rates, but you can do the math; if you charge off-peak, it’s not bad)

 

[momo3605]

No, you don’t; gas cars pay a gas tax, EVs pay an EV tax. It’s not “more”; it’s actually less, just charged at reg time instead of buying-gas time.

I suppose it depends on the number of miles you drive annually of it's more or less. I'm too lazy to do the math lol

Also, I charge for $0.08-$0.13, after midnight and before 3pm, on SVCE/PGE’s E-ELEC plan: https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Residential-Rate-Update-01.2023-_formatted_digital.pdf

Sure, not a lot of people are on SVCE though. Majority of the bay area doesn't have a choice and is on PGE rates. which are $0.26 off peak and exorbitant outside of that lol. Anywho, PGE off-peak was half what it is today 2 years ago, so 100% increase in electricity rates is...alarming i would say

Yup you do, until 2025.

Except most highways are turning into 3+ fastrak toll roads now, and it's not free there.

 

[xponents]

… and taxes.


No, you don’t; gas cars pay a gas tax, EVs pay an EV tax. It’s not “more”; it’s actually less, just charged at reg time instead of buying-gas time.


Yup you do, until 2025.

Gas prices may come down a little bit, but not very much. The reason EVs are surviving right now is because, long-term, they’re better cars - much less to maintain, longer brake life, and so on.

But it will take plenty of time to get there.

Also, I charge for $0.08-$0.13, after midnight and before 3pm, on SVCE/PGE’s E-ELEC plan: https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Residential-Rate-Update-01.2023-_formatted_digital.pdf

(Those aren’t the full bundled rates, but you can do the math; if you charge off-peak, it’s not bad)

Wonder why CA is so expensive considering they are regarded as the state trying to be the most clean?(if i see "known to cause cancer" one more time...)

Not just in cars, for everything!

 

[momo3605]

Wonder why CA is so expensive considering they are regarded as the state trying to be the most clean?

EV adoption in CA is so good! And people in CA apparently have unlimited money to pay taxes. So time to milk EVs for even more tax dollars

 

[DeaneG]

Also, I charge for $0.08-$0.13, after midnight and before 3pm, on SVCE/PGE’s E-ELEC plan: https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Residential-Rate-Update-01.2023-_formatted_digital.pdf

Don't you also have to add together both Generation and Service charges, to get $ 0.238/kWh on winter E-ELEC?
Regardless, you get to drive an 1111 hp car that costs less to operate than a 60mpg Prius.

 

[xponents]

EV adoption in CA is so good! And people in CA apparently have unlimited money to pay taxes. So time to milk EVs for even more tax dollars

Given I’ve only been to la, I believe you!

 

[Drendino]

Price per kWh with PGE is around $0.38. That means that if you're doing ~3 mi/kWh, you're getting about 7.9mi/$. Gas prices are ~$4.25, which means that you're getting ~33mpg equivalent. In reality, with vampire drain and such, I'm doing closer to 2.5mi/kWh which is ~27mpg equivalent. Feels like with CA's combination of gas and electricity prices, it's not super worth it?

I have solar so it definitely makes sense for me, but I was surprised when I did the math

California is actually one of the few states where EVs actually make any semblance of financial sence. I don’t know anyone who charges during peak hours, so 0.26 per kWh is probably closer to the ceiling of the cost of electricity. Couple that with solar and I bet it comes out closer to $2.00 a gallon.

This is at least the story I told my wife when I convinced her why we needed a GT.

 

[Haggy]

When I first got an EV, PG&E TOU night rate was around 12 cents. I got solar a few years later, with a projected break even point of about six years. Then COVID-19 came along, my wife worked from home a lot, and I now have more power than I'll use charging at home for the rest of my life, especially once my wife retires. Under normal circumstances, I would have paid a lot more had I not gotten solar, but I'm probably still ahead, and in the long run it's unquestionably cheaper for me.

I'd personally get an EV at this point even if it didn't save much if anything compared to gasoline because there are so many other advantages. When I first got an EV, I was spending about $75/week to fill up with gasoline. Prices dropped in subsequent years, and were over $6/gallon recently. But when I first got an EV, I was able to justify it to my wife by showing her projected savings in gasoline, as well as the effects of various incentive programs. A much cheaper car would have had a higher cost of ownership than a base Model S back then.

 

[Sact Pure]

Price per kWh with PGE is around $0.38. That means that if you're doing ~3 mi/kWh, you're getting about 7.9mi/$. Gas prices are ~$4.25, which means that you're getting ~33mpg equivalent. In reality, with vampire drain and such, I'm doing closer to 2.5mi/kWh which is ~27mpg equivalent. Feels like with CA's combination of gas and electricity prices, it's not super worth it?

I have solar so it definitely makes sense for me, but I was surprised when I did the math

Luckily I’m in Sacramento and have SMUD. OFF PEAK rate is .138. About $6 a charge.

 

[PewPew]

I think those EV rates require a separate meter installation and such which is not always feasible.

> which are $0.26 off peak and exorbitant outside of that lol.
Where is it even this low? Both EV-A and EV-B are 34c + off-peak according to PGE plans page, and all time of use plans are above 30c even off peak

 

[borski]

Sure, not a lot of people are on SVCE though. Majority of the bay area doesn't have a choice and is on PGE rates. which are $0.26 off peak and exorbitant outside of that lol. Anywho, PGE off-peak was half what it is today 2 years ago, so 100% increase in electricity rates is...alarming i would say

I happen to be on SVCE, and I have solar and batteries, but PGE pricing is similar for the E-ELEC plan. EV2-A is also not too awful.

I agree electricity costs are rising, and it sucks.

Except most highways are turning into 3+ fastrak toll roads now, and it's not free there.

You get 50% off those toll roads. https://www.bayareafastrak.org/en/support/clean-air-vehicle.shtml

Wonder why CA is so expensive considering they are regarded as the state trying to be the most clean?(if i see "known to cause cancer" one more time...)

Not just in cars, for everything!

Common trope. It’s more expensive than most of the country, but not more expensive than NYC.

Also, we get actual services, the roads don’t suck, we have beautiful well-maintained parks, and so on.

I’m not saying our taxes pay for things perfectly, but CA is a really nice place to live, at least partially due to the fact that our taxes pay to make it a nice place to live.

Don't you also have to add together both Generation and Service charges, to get $ 0.238/kWh on winter E-ELEC?
Regardless, you get to drive an 1111 hp car that costs less to operate than a 60mpg Prius.

Yes; I mentioned that in my post.

 

[momo3605]

And the rate goes up again in CA! $0.34 from the OP was right. It’s not 0.26 anymore

 

[DeaneG]

For completeness.