mi/$ not that great in CA for EVs?

[Daniel2022AT]

Off peak rate in Wisconsin (12-8am) is $.07/kWH. Regular rate is $.165/kWh. I don’t know what gas prices are anymore but premium I think is below $4/gal.

Home solar solutions make a lot of sense at anything over $.20/kWh. Lots of reasons to want to have options besides the grid.

I’m working with my HOA on a co-op plan for home solar/battery systems at reduced pricing. Once our local coal-fired power gen plant is shuttered in 2032 I’m worried about rate increases and brownouts.

 

[HariK]

Good points. My electricity rates are several times higher than yours, and I've been driving EVs from my garage for 13 years and plan to continue to do so for another 20, about 33 years lifetime for the expensive part of the installation. So the results of my math will be different. Honestly though I just hardwired our two home chargers for long-term convenience and peace of mind.

I too have a hardwired charger 240V 48A and a 14-50 outlet Lucid charger 240V 40A and 2 EVs. Once the "free" charging is over at the end of next year, I can just charge at home. Max I will pay if I exceed my solar capacity is 32cents per kWh and both my cars give me 4miles per kWh local driving due to regen. Total cost for me for the 2 EV 240V chargers was 900 labor. Parts came with the car.

Talking about depreciation, most luxury cars depreciate 40 to 50% in 5 years. Non luxury cars like a camry depreciate perhaps 30 to 35% in 5 years. If cost per year is the consideration, we come out ahead if we buy certified used cars or lightly used cars depending on our use case. For example Lexus LS430 2006 I own was $80k on the road new. I bought it in 2012 certified used for $30k on the road at 40k miles.

Lucid GT did depreciate partly due to the price war by Tesla. Time will tell how much it holds value.

 

[Rob Stark]

if automakers go the way of Ford and start cutting EV production

Ford isn't cutting EV production. It is reducing the planned increase for 2024.

Example

In 2023 Ford sold just over 24k Lightnings.

It previously planned to make 160k Lightings in 2024.

Revised projection is 80k Lightnings. That is 3.3X as many Ford electric trucks in 2024 as in 2023.

 

[momo3605]

Ford isn't cutting EV production. It is reducing the planned increase for 2024.

Example

In 2023 Ford sold just over 24k Lightnings.

It previously planned to make 160k Lightings in 2024.

Revised projection is 80k Lightnings. That is 3.3X as many Ford electric trucks in 2024 as in 2023.

Wonder how that'll work out for them. They couldn't sell everything they made in 2023 and put $15k incentives on the Lariats. Now they've raised the prices by $5-$7k. Good luck to Ford! I expect they'll probably cut projections again soon

 

[HariK]

Ford is a different market segment for commercial use and mostly local driving and using electrical outlets. RIvian R1T is not so much. I think Ford Lightning will do well. The higher interest rates impacted all auto makers. That can change in 2024 and later and also help Lucid.

 

[Wrysense]

Price per kWh with PGE is around $0.38. That means that if you're doing ~3 mi/kWh, you're getting about 7.9mi/$. Gas prices are ~$4.25, which means that you're getting ~33mpg equivalent. In reality, with vampire drain and such, I'm doing closer to 2.5mi/kWh which is ~27mpg equivalent. Feels like with CA's combination of gas and electricity prices, it's not super worth it?

I have solar so it definitely makes sense for me, but I was surprised when I did the math

I also live in So Cal but have SDG&E, who offers considerably lower rates for EV charging at night. This is pretty common. Utilities are moving to bidirectional load management; that is, they will buy electricity from your battery and feed the grid when they have a power need (and pay very high rates) and then sell you electricity cheap when solar and wind is abundant, which also happens a lot in CA. So the cost is lower than you think and there is reason to believe that the grid is going to get a lot more efficient to EV users. The pilot programs that have been done so far allow the homeowner to opt in to power sale/purchase on a case by case basis.

 

[borski]

The bougie wall charger will run you several grand.

Not in CA. A Chargepoint or Wallbox is a few hundred bucks, and CA reimburses you for most of the cost *and* install.

 

[xponents]

Not in CA. A Chargepoint or Wallbox is a few hundred bucks, and CA reimburses you for most of the cost *and* install.

Wait, the WHOLE cost?

 

[momo3605]

The higher interest rates impacted all auto makers

Ford has been offering low interest rates on the Lightning for the last few months 2.9-3.9%...i haven't seen it helping...

 

[xponents]

Ford has been offering low interest rates on the Lightning for the last few months 2.9-3.9%...i haven't seen it helping...

To be quite honest, the lightning represents a terrible value now considering the CT.

 

[momo3605]

To be quite honest, the lightning represents a terrible value now considering the CT.

heh...i actually think it's the opposite. i think the CT represents a terrible value considering the Lightning and Rivian. Recent tests have the CT with significantly less range than both (250 miles at 70mph vs over 300 on both the lightning and riviain). And a crappy charging profile on par with the 150KW peak Lightning. (50 minutes from 10-85%)

First charge curve data I've seen. | Tesla Motors Club

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Ford is doing moderately well with EVs. I see Mach-E’s frequently in the mid-west. Their dealers would much prefer selling existing ICE products for many reasons.

CT will not be available in significant quantities to the general public for 2 years.

Peter R. has stated eloquently trucks are not a good use case for EV’s with current battery tech. It really is a waste of resources if we are trying to help the planet.

 

[borski]

Wait, the WHOLE cost?

https://www.pge.com/en/clean-energy/electric-vehicles/empower-ev-program.html for low income

Also see: https://www.cncda.org/ev-rebate-resources/#Charger-Rebates

Also, the federal tax credit is 30% of the cost of hardware and installation, up to $1,000.

And if you live within one of the CCAs, there are additional rebates, such as $250 from SVCE.

So no, it doesn’t cover the *entire cost*, but you’re definitely not going to spend “thousands.”

 

[Rogue]

https://www.pge.com/en/clean-energy/electric-vehicles/empower-ev-program.html for low income

Also see: https://www.cncda.org/ev-rebate-resources/#Charger-Rebates

Also, the federal tax credit is 30% of the cost of hardware and installation, up to $1,000.

And if you live within one of the CCAs, there are additional rebates, such as $250 from SVCE.

So no, it doesn’t cover the *entire cost*, but you’re definitely not going to spend “thousands.”

True. This is a CA thread. Thousands, potentially, for those of us in states without incentives.

 

[xponents]

https://www.pge.com/en/clean-energy/electric-vehicles/empower-ev-program.html for low income

Also see: https://www.cncda.org/ev-rebate-resources/#Charger-Rebates

Also, the federal tax credit is 30% of the cost of hardware and installation, up to $1,000.

And if you live within one of the CCAs, there are additional rebates, such as $250 from SVCE.

So no, it doesn’t cover the *entire cost*, but you’re definitely not going to spend “thousands.”

Ah, NJ has a very similar program in that case, although we don't have any local rebates!

 

[borski]

True. This is a CA thread. Thousands, potentially, for those of us in states without incentives.

Maybe. You do save 30% either way, up to $1k, from the federal tax credit.

But yes, I’m only referring to CA.

 

[borski]

Ah, NJ has a very similar program in that case, although we don't have any local rebates!

Depends on where you are: https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=NJ

Federal rebate of 30% up to $1000

NJ itself is a $250 rebate

PSE&G offers residential customers a rebate of up to $1,500 for the behind the meter installation of a Level 2 EV charging station. Participants may also be eligible for a rebate of up to $5,000 for pole-to-meter utility service upgrades.

Atlantic City Energy offers 50% of the electrical upgrade costs or a maximum of $1,000.

Jersey Central Power & Light (JCP&L) offers rebates of up to $1,500 to residential customers for the installation of make-ready Level 2 EV charging stations, plus $5500 in incentives for any upgrade work on the utility/panel side.

So still not thousands, assuming you don’t live in the boondocks.

But yes, it all varies depending on who your utility is.

The federal 30% tax credit is always available though.

 

[Rob Stark]

Wonder how that'll work out for them. They couldn't sell everything they made in 2023 and put $15k incentives on the Lariats. Now they've raised the prices by $5-$7k. Good luck to Ford! I expect they'll probably cut projections again soon

December 23 was the best month so far for Lightning.

No $40k Cybertruck Vaporware hanging over Ford's head.

I think Lightning will sell every truck they make profitably.

$15k off Platinum trims at years end is normal course of business for Ford Trucks. MSRPs have ridiculous markups knowing customers expect discounts.

 

[Rob Stark]

Peter R. has stated eloquently trucks are not a good use case for EV’s with current battery tech. It really is a waste of resources if we are trying to help the planet.

And yet Lucid is showing a pickup truck in investor slide decks.

I am sure battery tech will be just perfect in 5 years LOL.

 

[borski]

And yet Lucid is showing a pickup truck in investor slide decks.

Where?