Luck o' the Irish

[hmp10]

Just had to deal with this; insurance will pay for either your installer to come out to the shop or for a tow back and forth. It was coordinated by my body shop.

Car was out for about 2 months or so, and that’s after it sat waiting for parts for about 4-6 weeks, because mine was drivable and airbags didn’t deploy.

So sorry to hear about this.

I'm sorry your car was out of commission this long, too. It's a real bummer for cars we waited so long to get.

Since my radar installer is across the state from where the car must go for repair, the body shop in West Palm Beach will bring in a contract installer from that region. The insurance company said that work is always done through the body shops in these cases.

The repair shop that is getting the car has already notified Lucid, and Lucid asked the shop for my VIN because they want to see what the car's systems did during the crash. I'm told that Lucid studies these crashes and repairs to understand the cars' performance in these situations. The shop said Lucid is very sophisticated in this regard.

 

[Lucken]

I also just had an accident with my AGT. Someone came flying through a side street and I swerved to get around him(which I did) and slammed into the side of a curb. I got out of the car and it looked like just my wheel rims were damaged and some flaying of the tires on the front and back passenger side against the curb. Surprisingly the 21 inch Pirellis were not deflated .No exterior damage to the car that I could see. Since I was just a mile from home, I started to drive the car, and it felt like I had some resistance to the accelerator pedal. When I turned into my street, I heard a loud boom and it felt like my tire was jammed against the wheel well. I managed to get the car into my garage. Roadside assistance told me they would be there at 9:00am the next morning. Later I went to look at the car and I saw blue fluid leaking out. I shoved some towels under the car and went to bed.
Next day waited for Roadside which never showed up. They called me and said they would arrive a 6pm. Never showed up then either. Now I pulled the car out of the garage to put on the street next to my house. Heard a deep grinding of the wheel and now reddish brown fluid came gushing out from under the front of the car.
Roadside finally arrived after 2 days and trucked my car from Portland Oregon to the Lucid Center in Seattle. Talked with Christine in Seattle who could not be nicer. She told me the blue fluid was windwasher fluid and the brown fluid was battery coolant and that it looked like my AGT might also have a damaged axle. She told me she will give me a full report after this weekend and hopefully the beginning of next week.
Fortunately I have an excellent insurance Co called PURE. My policy covers rental not on days but on total dollars. They will pay up to $15,000 dollars toward the cost of a rental, so I can choose what I want from Enterprise. At present they have a Tesla for $150 dollars/day. I will be switching that out for Polestar for $100 dollars a day on Monday to help insure I don't run out of rental car days, as of this point I have no idea how long it will take to fix it.
Shit happens, but so far Lucid and my PURE insurance have both been exceptionally nice. Roadside could and should have been better. Don't know what would have happened if I could not get the car home(1 mile away). As I was not hurt and the airbags did not deploy as well as the exterior of my car appears untouched, I am somewhat grateful in that it could have been worse. The car that cut me off was long gone by the time I realized what had happened. I was glad I was able to avoid crashing into him. Now the long wait to get my AGT back.

Sorry to hear about your accident. Seems like something is going around here, like the flu. Yours was the third in a week or two.

 

[hmp10]

I also just had an accident with my AGT.

So sorry to hear about this. It sounds a bit like what happened in my 2010 Audi R8. Someone moved into my lane (a Florida specialty), forcing me into concrete curbing. The exterior of the car showed no damage other than scuffing of a front wheel, but as I moved the car off the road I knew something underneath was amiss.

The car was in the shop for over two months while suspension parts dribbled in from Germany. There was even a long wait for a wheel. As each new part was put on the car, another component was found to also be out of spec. With no end of repairs in sight, I finally convinced the dealer and the insurance company of the guy who drove me into the curb to cut a deal. The dealer had a new 2011 R8 Spyder on the lot. He gave me a full trade-in allowance on the damaged car to get the new car, with the insurer making the dealer whole for the difference (plus $7500 to me for diminished value).

It takes a long time to get parts for low-volume cars, even from established manufacturers. It's part of the price one pays to be an early adopter or a fan of exotics.

 

[Jimyboy]

So sad this happened, glad no one was hurt...

In Lucids defense, it is really not their place to take care of an accident (so they did nothing wrong), that is the job of your insurance company, and State Farm is great. I would let State Farm send you to one of their certified shops because I believe they are vetted by State Farm (for EV's) and the work may be fully guaranteed for the lifetime of the car when you use an "in network shop", this includes any electrical issues.. Let State Farm take care of you, pay your deductible and then let them go after the liable parties' insurance company and subrogate against them to get your deductible back for you, by doing it that way you will get the Service First Nework Guarantee by going through your State Farm Policy as primary.

 

[hmp10]

So sad this happened, glad no one was hurt...

In Lucids defense, it is really not their place to take care of an accident (so they did nothing wrong), that is the job of your insurance company, and State Farm is great. I would let State Farm send you to one of their certified shops because I believe they are vetted by State Farm (for EV's) and the work may be fully guaranteed for the lifetime of the car when you use an "in network shop", this includes any electrical issues.. Let State Farm take care of you, pay your deductible and then let them go after the liable parties' insurance company and subrogate against them to get your deductible back for you, by doing it that way you will get the Service First Nework Guarantee by going through your State Farm Policy as primary.

Both I and the driver who was found liable are insured by State Farm, so this is all in-house for them. They are going to process this as a liability claim under the other driver's policy instead of as a collision claim under my policy, thereby absolving me of the deductible under my collision policy.

No one is saying it is Lucid's place to take care of an accident. The only complaint about Lucid's role in this accident was that they should ensure a Lucid driver can reach Customer Service quickly for advice on how to handle the car at the scene in order to avoid further damage to the car or injury to personnel at the scene, as many drivers, police officers, and tow truck operators have little familiarity with the peculiarities of electric powertrains. (For instance, the tow truck the police called to the scene tried to hook up the front of the car to tow it on its rear wheels. As I've had EVs for eight years, I knew this was a no-no that could wreck the drivetrain and stopped him. Many drivers would not have known to.)

It was Lucid that set up the protocol by which they review accidents and repairs, as they're trying to learn how their cars perform during accidents. It is also Lucid that set the policy that cars with significant damage be sent to a Lucid Service Center after body repair in a certified shop so that Lucid can check out the high-voltage system and other critical components. Also, body shops don't have the equipment to calibrate the lidar units after repair.

The reason Lucid wants their cars to be repaired at a Lucid-certified facility is that Lucid takes personnel from those facilities to its California headquarters for training on how to repair their cars. State Farm has agreed to work with a Lucid-certified facility and has already waived their 30-mile towing limit so that they will pay to have the car transported 137 miles to West Palm Beach and then on to the Service Center in Riviera Beach for final check-up by Lucid.

As for State Farm's payment on claims, I'll have to wait to see how that plays out. Thus far I have no complaints, but I am told that there have been some disputes between State Farm and Lucid-certified facilities about invoice amounts, to the point that a senior executive at Lucid and the CEO of State Farm are involved in trying to reach an understanding. The body shops that have been willing to invest in sending personnel to California for training to work on low-volume cars tend to be high-end shops that specialize in high-end cars, and their labor rates are higher than the volume shops to which insurers prefer to send their business.

 

[Jimyboy]

Lucid is a new company but I imagine it will share some of the same State Farm certified shops used by Tesla, Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, and Mercedes repairs and they come out great.. So dont worry everything should turn out fine, Labor rates and all that wont matter since you are getting the job done by a Network Certified Shop, and State Farm wants the car done right too, so it should go smoothly.. It is important that you download the State Farm App for your claim, and also for any future accidents.. From there you can instantly dispatch a tow truck and get help with a push of a button for emergencies in the future, takes your GPS position etc.. I am in California and things may be a little different, but State Farm will pay to tow your to the nearest shop that is open and can work on your car, there is no 30 mile limit... I would be surprised if you have any problems at all. Those certified shops are usually meticulous, Porsche and Italian car owners can be very picky about their cars, and they usually come out perfect.

 

[mraschko]

The good news is that there's a good chance that your Air will be totaled and, rather than repaired, you'll be buying a new one. I've heard that's common when the air bags deploy because there's so many bits that have to be replaced. It was also my experience when my Model S was hit. That's what I was hoping for given the complexity of these EVs.

Also, like Bobby's experience, Tesla called me within a few minutes of the accident.

 

[bobofat]

@hmp10 so sorry this happened to you but glad that you are ok and were able to walk away. It is a shame that Lucid doesn't have some sort of emergency contact line or use a third party in these sorts of situations when customers are in need of immediate assistance, much like onstar or something similar. Do you know if the Lucid tried to engage emergency braking?

I guess you are at the mercy of your insurance, lucid and the body shop in terms of if and when you'll get your car back.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Holy crap. So so sorry about your car, but so very glad that everyone was ok. It’s funny my wife has a similar Subaru, if she ever pushes to take her car on the trip I’ll show her the pic of your accident of why the Lucid is safer.

And while yeah I do understand that instance co should be the primary people to handle the situation, that’s not OK Lucid CS ghosted you and didn’t respond in a timely fashion for the reasons you mentioned. Thankfully no one was injured, but had you left in an ambulance the tow company would have just dragged the car up the trailer and destroyed the drivetrain because Lucid CS wasn’t involved. They need to have some way to triage CS communications, do they not do that? Disabled/crashed car should be priority 1A, someone complaining about slow charging should be priority Z. I’d just assume they do have some way to triage given how rapidly they responded to my Turtle mode.

 

[hmp10]

Lucid is a new company but I imagine it will share some of the same State Farm certified shops used by Tesla, Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, and Mercedes repairs and they come out great.. So dont worry everything should turn out fine, Labor rates and all that wont matter since you are getting the job done by a Network Certified Shop, and State Farm wants the car done right too, so it should go smoothly.. It is important that you download the State Farm App for your claim, and also for any future accidents.. From there you can instantly dispatch a tow truck and get help with a push of a button for emergencies in the future, takes your GPS position etc.. I am in California and things may be a little different, but State Farm will pay to tow your to the nearest shop that is open and can work on your car, there is no 30 mile limit... I would be surprised if you have any problems at all. Those certified shops are usually meticulous, Porsche and Italian car owners can be very picky about their cars, and they usually come out perfect.

Every time I called State Farm, their IVR system required me to push one number if I was in California and another number if I was outside California. So apparently California has some state-imposed regulations that do not apply elsewhere. Florida definitely has a 30-mile limit, as the rep told me she would have to refer my tow request to her team leader and get back to me later with an answer. She called me about a half hour later saying the tow to West Palm had been approved.

Also, I was told that State Farm would only pay storage fees until the following Tuesday. The accident occurred late Thursday night, and I was having this conversation with State Farm on Friday. They told me they would only pay storage fees to the yard where the car had been taken until Tuesday. The weekend was coming up, and we had not yet figured out where the car had to be taken for the repairs. I said that would only leave the rest of the day Friday and then Monday to resolve all this, but I was told the Tuesday limit would hold.

When I called State Farm to report the accident, the voice prompts said that reporting the accident online or through their app would be faster. So I hung up and went to their website. As I began filling in the fields, the site began to freeze as I was typing. The frequency and duration of these freezes increased as I continued through the screens to the point that I finally gave up and filed the report by phone. I told the State Farm rep about the problem with the website and suggested she needed to inform their IT team. She said, "yeah, that happens sometimes" and gave me a number so that I could call their IT people if I wanted to report it -- making it clear that was my job, not hers.

I think you're missing the point in your zeal to praise State Farm's body shop network. Maintaining the Lucid's warranty requires that such major work be done only in repair facilities certified by Lucid and whose personnel have been trained by Lucid. One of the local network shops that State Farm proposed was a shop I have used in the past with very good results, including on one of our Teslas. I would have been perfectly happy with using that shop; in fact, I would have preferred it for my own convenience. But even had I been able, the car would still have had to be taken across the state to Riviera Beach for checking out the high-voltage system, electronics, and calibrating the lidar. As Lucid is one of the extremely few production vehicles with lidar, no body shop has the equipment to calibrate it.

Lucid has some unique features, such as its 924-volt architecture and its ethernet ring. This situation is not unique to Lucid. When I owned Audi R8s, they could only be worked on in certain Audi dealerships whose personnel had been given special training. Although there was a dealership near me in downtown Chicago with a large service shop, I had to take the car out to one of the R8-certified shops in the suburbs for any work.

 

[hmp10]

. . . had you left in an ambulance the tow company would have just dragged the car up the trailer and destroyed the drivetrain because Lucid CS wasn’t involved. They need to have some way to triage CS communications, do they not do that? Disabled/crashed car should be priority 1A, someone complaining about slow charging should be priority Z. I’d just assume they do have some way to triage given how rapidly they responded to my Turtle mode.

This accident occurred near the place a piece of metal in the road cut my front tire a couple of months earlier. I managed to get the car off the road, but it took me over three hours to find a tow company that could get a truck that far out.

In this accident which was blocking a large intersection, the deputies wanted the cars moved as quickly as possible. As my car would not go into gear, I told them the fastest way would be to use the tow company they had on call. I also told them a flatbed or dollies would be necessary due to the electric drivetrain.

When the tow truck finally arrived I was in the corner convenience store trying to reach Lucid CS. When I came out, the tow driver had already put the Subaru on the flatbed, and he was extending a T-bar from the back of the truck to lift the front wheels of the Lucid so that he could tow it on its back wheels behind the flatbed. I stopped him and told him the car could not be towed that way. He got aggravated and told me he had towed plenty of Teslas. I still insisted he drop the car and explained to the deputies why. So they told him to switch cars and put the Lucid on the flatbed. He then tried to swap the cars until he realized the Subaru also could not be towed on its rear wheels. At that point the deputies called for a second tow truck.

DO NOT EVER leave your Lucid to be towed without your being present to observe what's going on.

 

[hmp10]

Trouble may be brewing on the insurance front with my accident. Today I got a letter from State Farm containing this paragraph:

"If the vehicle is repairable or is declared a total loss, the repair facility you have chosen may charge more than what State Farm has determined is reasonable in the local market area. You may be responsible for charges that exceed what is reasonable in the local market area."

There are only three Lucid-certified repair shops in Florida. None of them operate at the rates State Farm will accept, for reasons explained below.

Lucid has recently hired someone to serve as a liaison between insurers, repair shops, and owners when a Lucid has been damaged in an accident. (Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes have done the same for their EV lines.) I spoke with him today to find out what is behind State Farm's position. I was told that State Farm refuses to recognize that high-end electric vehicles are not just ICE cars with electric motors in them and that State Farm therefore refuses to acknowledge that the repair of them can be fundamentally different than repairing ICE vehicles. Consequently, State Farm estimators show up with standard pricing sheets that do not reflect what repair shops confront in dealing with EV repairs.

Also, Lucid components are often more expensive than corresponding components on ICE cars, and State Farm insists on using price sheets that only reflect ICE manufacturer components. No Lucid components are on any of their pricing sheets, so State Farm always tells the body shop they will only pay the price on their sheets, not what Lucid actually charges the repair shop for the components.

Finally, to be certified to repair a Lucid, a repair shop has to send personnel to California for training at the Lucid facility, and the shop has to buy special tooling for some Lucid repairs. These are difficult costs to recoup on low-volume cars, consequently shop labor rates are justifiably higher than what State Farm deems "reasonable in the local market area" -- i. e., high-volume shops dealing with more conventional cars.

State Farm told me today that the shop I am using has a history of gouging prices and doing unnecessary work in repairing vehicles. Lucid tells me that they certified that shop, which is state of the art, and that Lucid sees every price line item for material and labor on a Lucid repair and that there is no gouging going on with Lucids at that shop.

I asked what would be my recourse if I run into a dead end with State Farm on this. I was told I would probably have to sue State Farm . . . and that I would not be the first Lucid owner to have to do so.

I was hoping this would work itself out. Both a phone call and a letter I got from State Farm today indicate, however, that they are already digging in at this early stage.

I also brought up with State Farm their position that "diminished value" is not a thing. They said that they don't pay for it, as any car that is properly repaired after a major accident does not lose resale value. I told their representative that he and I both know that is a bold-faced lie. He admitted that their position on this was "hinky" (his word) and that some accommodation could possibly be reached. Florida recognizes the concept of diminished value by statute. I find it extraordinary that an insurer operating in Florida would start from a position that the concept is invalid.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Scary considering that State Farm has traditionally been viewed as a customer friendly insurer.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

That is quite aggravating. I don’t understand how legally this can be in agreement with their coverage damage amounts you paid for. The insurance company does not set the price of components, and it’s not like there are alternative components to choose from for many many things on this car. I’m not a fan of lawyering up but maybe it’s time to go Better Call Saul on this one. Thanks for keeping us in the loop as your headache may help us all navigate this sort of situation if we’re equally misfortunate.

 

[Steveinarizona]

That is quite aggravating. I don’t understand how legally this can be in agreement with their coverage damage amounts you paid for. The insurance company does not set the price of components, and it’s not like there are alternative components to choose from for many many things on this car. I’m not a fan of lawyering up but maybe it’s time to go Better Call Saul on this one. Thanks for keeping us in the loop as your headache may help us all navigate this sort of situation if we’re equally misfortunate.

In insurance, everything is governed by the contract (policy) terms. If the Policy allows SF to do what it says, then you are screwed. If it doesn't, what does it say about reimbursement? Most insurers say that if you go to one of their approved body shops, you don't pay extra. Did SF offer up body shops? If they did, and you picked one, I wonder what would happen. They can't just pick up a wonderbox from Autozone.

 

[WildRide47]

Scary considering that State Farm has traditionally been viewed as a customer friendly insurer.

That is quite aggravating. I don’t understand how legally this can be in agreement with their coverage damage amounts you paid for. The insurance company does not set the price of components, and it’s not like there are alternative components to choose from for many many things on this car. I’m not a fan of lawyering up but maybe it’s time to go Better Call Saul on this one. Thanks for keeping us in the loop as your headache may help us all navigate this sort of situation if we’re equally misfortunate.

I will find out how my PURE insurance company handles my claim after they send an adjuster to Seattle to evaluate the damage, repair time etc.

They already have authorized $15,000 for a rental car till my car is returned. They only electric car on the Enterprise lot was a Tesla for $150 dollars per day. I then switched it 3 days later to a Polestar for $93.75 per day. Trying to keep under the $15,000 dollar total limit till I get an idea of long my car will be out. If it's too long, I will switch to an ice car with a lower rental fee.

 

[Bobby]

Trouble may be brewing on the insurance front with my accident. Today I got a letter from State Farm containing this paragraph:

"If the vehicle is repairable or is declared a total loss, the repair facility you have chosen may charge more than what State Farm has determined is reasonable in the local market area. You may be responsible for charges that exceed what is reasonable in the local market area."

There are only three Lucid-certified repair shops in Florida. None of them operate at the rates State Farm will accept, for reasons explained below.

Lucid has recently hired someone to serve as a liaison between insurers, repair shops, and owners when a Lucid has been damaged in an accident. (Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes have done the same for their EV lines.) I spoke with him today to find out what is behind State Farm's position. I was told that State Farm refuses to recognize that high-end electric vehicles are not just ICE cars with electric motors in them and that State Farm therefore refuses to acknowledge that the repair of them can be fundamentally different than repairing ICE vehicles. Consequently, State Farm estimators show up with standard pricing sheets that do not reflect what repair shops confront in dealing with EV repairs.

Also, Lucid components are often more expensive than corresponding components on ICE cars, and State Farm insists on using price sheets that only reflect ICE manufacturer components. No Lucid components are on any of their pricing sheets, so State Farm always tells the body shop they will only pay the price on their sheets, not what Lucid actually charges the repair shop for the components.

Finally, to be certified to repair a Lucid, a repair shop has to send personnel to California for training at the Lucid facility, and the shop has to buy special tooling for some Lucid repairs. These are difficult costs to recoup on low-volume cars, consequently shop labor rates are justifiably higher than what State Farm deems "reasonable in the local market area" -- i. e., high-volume shops dealing with more conventional cars.

State Farm told me today that the shop I am using has a history of gouging prices and doing unnecessary work in repairing vehicles. Lucid tells me that they certified that shop, which is state of the art, and that Lucid sees every price line item for material and labor on a Lucid repair and that there is no gouging going on with Lucids at that shop.

I asked what would be my recourse if I run into a dead end with State Farm on this. I was told I would probably have to sue State Farm . . . and that I would not be the first Lucid owner to have to do so.

I was hoping this would work itself out. Both a phone call and a letter I got from State Farm today indicate, however, that they are already digging in at this early stage.

I also brought up with State Farm their position that "diminished value" is not a thing. They said that they don't pay for it, as any car that is properly repaired after a major accident does not lose resale value. I told their representative that he and I both know that is a bold-faced lie. He admitted that their position on this was "hinky" (his word) and that some accommodation could possibly be reached. Florida recognizes the concept of diminished value by statute. I find it extraordinary that an insurer operating in Florida would start from a position that the concept is invalid.

Get a lawyer, right away.

 

[Electrified]

Scary considering that State Farm has traditionally been viewed as a customer friendly insurer.

Not by anyone that I know, State Farm has a reputation of being real pricks from both body shops and customers in this area.

 

[hmp10]

In insurance, everything is governed by the contract (policy) terms. If the Policy allows SF to do what it says, then you are screwed. If it doesn't, what does it say about reimbursement? Most insurers say that if you go to one of their approved body shops, you don't pay extra. Did SF offer up body shops? If they did, and you picked one, I wonder what would happen. They can't just pick up a wonderbox from Autozone.

This claim is not under my policy but under the liability clause of the other driver's policy. I am not a party to his contract with State Farm and thus not bound by its limits. However, I did look at the liability clause under my own State Farm policy, and there is nothing in there about State Farm limiting payments to what they deem reasonable local rates. The liability clause reads:

"We [State Farm] will pay damages an insured becomes legally liable to pay because of damage to property caused by an accident that involves a vehicle for which that insured is provided Property Damage Liability Coverage by this policy . . . ." There is no mention anywhere in the liability clauses, under "Exclusions" or elsewhere, of State Farm's right to limit payments to what they deem reasonable.

As much as I'd hate to, I might have to sue the kid who hit me. For starters, this claim could easily exceed the liability limits of his policy. Normally, that would kick the remainder of the costs over into my own collision coverage. But if State Farm is refusing to pay the full invoice, that would mean I would also have to sue State Farm under my own policy.

The bottom line . . . if State Farm is determined to nickel and dime this claim, it's going to spawn a morass of lawsuits.

I'm hoping they were just putting a stake in the ground with today's call and letter but will actually become more reasonable in the crunch. In my long lifetime, I've only had a couple of claims from home lightning strikes and one auto liability claim against another driver. All were processed smoothly, and at no point did I develop any uneasiness with the insurer. With State Farm, alarms bells are sounding with every conversation right from the beginning when they told me they don't recognize the concept of "diminished value" from an accident.

 

[Electrified]

@hmp10 I would present your SF policy to a trusted lawyer to find out what options and leverage you have with SF, and hopefully SF has to make good on this as there's a good chance the kid doesn't have a pot to piss in.