Speculation Lucid UX 3.0

[koflo]

The problem with these discussions is that everyone is comparing Lucid to Tesla, understandably, but if you want Tesla's software stack, go buy a Tesla. Lucid is doing things their way, for whatever reason, and that's fine by me. I do not want Tesla software, if I did, I would have just bought another Tesla. STOP trying to turn Lucid UX into Tesla UX.

To be fair, I don’t think we want the same ux as Tesla but we would love the features. Google map based navigation? Hell yeah I’ll take it. Precondition the car with heat/cool seats? Hell yeah. Music and navigation at the same time? Hell yeah! View the cameras at all times? Hell yeah! Better music integration? Hell yeah! The list goes on and on but the point being that all those things don’t change the UX it rather just enhances the functionality of the car.

I think a lot of us that complain don’t want a Tesla because the car experience isn’t a lucid car experience. We picked the lucid because it’s borderline enthusiast levels of handling. It has amazing range. Its luxury is perfection. It’s an amazing car with a tacked on technology stack.

Tesla is the opposite. An amazing technology stack with a lackluster feeling car. That’s at least why I sold my model s and got the lucid. The great thing is software can change and teslas car experience can’t. But I also think it’s fair not to be super biased on the reality of the software especially when compared to the powerhouse that is Tesla. That’s their game and they do it well.

 

[joec]

To be fair, I don’t think we want the same ux as Tesla but we would love the features. Google map based navigation? Hell yeah I’ll take it. Precondition the car with heat/cool seats? Hell yeah. Music and navigation at the same time? Hell yeah! View the cameras at all times? Hell yeah! Better music integration? Hell yeah! The list goes on and on but the point being that all those things don’t change the UX it rather just enhances the functionality of the car.

I think a lot of us that complain don’t want a Tesla because the car experience isn’t a lucid car experience. We picked the lucid because it’s borderline enthusiast levels of handling. It has amazing range. Its luxury is perfection. It’s an amazing car with a tacked on technology stack.

Tesla is the opposite. An amazing technology stack with a lackluster feeling car. That’s at least why I sold my model s and got the lucid. The great thing is software can change and teslas car experience can’t. But I also think it’s fair not to be super biased on the reality of the software especially when compared to the powerhouse that is Tesla. That’s their game and they do it well.

That's totally cool and fair. And I apologize if I'm coming off strong in disagreeing at times.

It's just that many of us do disagree strongly with you on that final bit. Which is fine. But there are a few folks here who just can't accept that many of us had or still have Teslas and did not like the software, either. We're not "haters." And we're not talking from lack of experience. We know the software stack you like very well and we don't prefer it.

And we grow a bit weary after a few years of new folks coming in here every couple of weeks trying to convince us of something we're very sure isn't true for us.

That's all we're trying to say. It's not a locked, set-in-stone fact that Tesla's software is excellent. Or even good. So it can't be stated as fact. You are very free to disagree with us. Heck, most of the auto industry pundits agree with you. But that doesn't make it fact.

It's also certainly easy to debate where Lucid is in terms of the state of their software. No one here thinks it doesn't need improvement. The specific bits that need improvement are going to be different to everyone, though. You want Google Maps? Makes sense. I prefer Apple Maps, so I'm glad I have that choice with CarPlay. Someone else really wants Android Auto? No disagreement there, even though I wouldn't ever use that. Why should only iPhone users get what they want?

And yeah, just about all of us agree the split screen thing turned out to be less useful than Lucid was hoping. I think having the two maps, as @hmp10 pointed out, is the one benefit. But that could be accomplished just as easily while still allowing more independence for each screen. Gravity's 3.0 design seems to have addressed that nicely.

Lucid has made many strides over the past year. It feels like slow progress, because it always is with software. But like I said before, it's heading in the right direction, so I'm confident it'll be much better this time next year.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I have found that using CarPlay with the phone in the wireless charger causes the nav to lag. For some reason, the phone cannot receive the satellite signal and either hangs or lags. If you take the phone out of the charger and put it on the armrest between the seats, the nav works well with CarPlay.

Ah that’s interesting, I quit using the wireless charger and got the Twraps one which is fantastic, I get no lag from CarPlay and it loads quickly when I get in the car.

 

[hmp10]

. . . a lot of these are hand picked . . . I don’t think they [Lucid] are really ahead of the game like others here believe.

Yes, they were "hand picked". I did not use a computer program, seek independent advice, or consult a third-party authority in selecting the points I wanted to raise for comparison.

Also, I did not say that Lucid is ahead of the game with software. I said that Lucid is ahead of Tesla in how the totality of the control suite -- both software and manual controls -- work to control the car.

To be fair a lot of these are . . . slightly inaccurate.

Birds Eye view is nice but in my lucid, it only works about 20% of the time unless I manually pull it up.

Our Tesla (which is only four months newer than our Lucid) doesn't have it at all, no matter how you access it in the Lucid. So I don't see any inaccuracy in saying it's a step up from what Tesla offers.

To be fair a lot of these are . . . slightly inaccurate.

Volume control isn’t bad because just like any controls in the car, you can slide the dial for the passenger or use the steering wheel if you are the driver (without any delays which the lucid has).

I restricted my point to how the front passenger controls volume, not the driver. And I mentioned that the front passenger uses a slide control while pointing out that it was difficult to adjust precisely when the car is moving. Again, where is the inaccuracy?

I get lucid technically has 3 but I’d argue most people don’t like that about the car. Plus the navigation experience is much better with Tesla.

I'm not sure why you think "most people" don't like the separation of screens on the Lucid. If we're using anecdotal evidence, I can only say most people who check out our Lucid think having the upper Glass Cockpit and the lower Pilot Panel is a welcome difference from the single central screen used in most Teslas these days. Even my brother, who has a 2018 Model 3, likes the Lucid screen layout better.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "navigation experience". If you mean mapping and giving audio and video directions, I don't find much substantive difference between our Lucid and our Tesla. The both function a bit differently and function satisfactorily.

If you mean ADAS, I accept that Tesla is more advanced than Lucid right now. However, as I've posted elsewhere, I love driving my cars and almost never use ADAS in any of our three cars that have some level of it, so I don't have much personal experience with it. (It's why I didn't pony up $15,000 for Tesla FSD.). I also have to point out that buying extra ADAS features in a Tesla doesn't mean you'll get to keep them as long as you own the car. When I bought my first 2015 Tesla Model S P90D, I paid $3,000 for Enhanced Auto Pilot, the highest-tier ADAS Tesla offered at the time. Over the ensuing several years, several of its features were deactivated and migrated to the new FSD suite -- even though our Tesla did not have the hardware for FSD. (I've discussed this elsewhere but will respond here if you want to know what they were. Suffice it to say that by the time we traded the car, all it really had was adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist -- not too much different from what came standard in our 2018 Honda Odyssey.)

Before you take umbrage at my views of Tesla's control suite by claiming I am posting inaccuracies, you really ought to read my original post more carefully. You will note that I wrote, "my vote lands squarely with Lucid's approach." Thus, I was not stating an objective inherent fact about Tesla software. I was clearly stating a personal preference for the totality of Lucid's control suite over Tesla's.

 

[koflo]

Yes, they were "hand picked". I did not use a computer program, seek independent advice, or consult a third-party authority in selecting the points I wanted to raise for comparison.

Also, I did not say that Lucid is ahead of the game with software. I said that Lucid is ahead of Tesla in how the totality of the control suite -- both software and manual controls -- work to control the car.




Our Tesla (which is only four months newer than our Lucid) doesn't have it at all, no matter how you access it in the Lucid. So I don't see any inaccuracy in saying it's a step up from what Tesla offers.




I restricted my point to how the front passenger controls volume, not the driver. And I mentioned that the front passenger uses a slide control while pointing out that it was difficult to adjust precisely when the car is moving. Again, where is the inaccuracy?



I'm not sure why you think "most people" don't like the separation of screens on the Lucid. If we're using anecdotal evidence, I can only say most people who check out our Lucid think having the upper Glass Cockpit and the lower Pilot Panel is a welcome difference from the single central screen used in most Teslas these days. Even my brother, who has a 2018 Model 3, likes the Lucid screen layout better.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "navigation experience". If you mean mapping and giving audio and video directions, I don't find much substantive difference between our Lucid and our Tesla. The both function a bit differently and function satisfactorily.

If you mean ADAS, I accept that Tesla is more advanced than Lucid right now. However, as I've posted elsewhere, I love driving my cars and almost never use ADAS in any of our three cars that have some level of it, so I don't have much personal experience with it. (It's why I didn't pony up $15,000 for Tesla FSD.). I also have to point out that buying extra ADAS features in a Tesla doesn't mean you'll get to keep them as long as you own the car. When I bought my first 2015 Tesla Model S P90D, I paid $3,000 for Enhanced Auto Pilot, the highest-tier ADAS Tesla offered at the time. Over the ensuing several years, several of its features were deactivated and migrated to the new FSD suite -- even though our Tesla did not have the hardware for FSD. (I've discussed this elsewhere but will respond here if you want to know what they were. Suffice it to say that by the time we traded the car, all it really had was adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist -- not too much different from what came standard in our 2018 Honda Odyssey.)

Before you take umbrage at my views of Tesla's control suite by claiming I am posting inaccuracies, you really ought to read my original post more carefully. You will note that I wrote, "my vote lands squarely with Lucid's approach." Thus, I was not stating an objective inherent fact about Tesla software. I was clearly stating a personal preference for the totality of Lucid's control suite over Tesla's.

Here is the link to the Tesla Birds Eye view. Again its very new but I keep up with the Tesla Subreddit still: https://electrek.co/2023/12/17/tesla-unveils-bird-eye-view-3d-reconstruction-park-assist/. Not as good but again cameras in general which was my point arent nearly as good on the Lucid. So sure for Parking specifically Lucid does better but tesla does have an alternative now. Plus all the other goodies that you cant tap into with the cameras.

Understood on the volume thing. I dont think its hard to adjust in a moving car but point understood. Sorry about that!

Separation of screen issue is talked about constantly here along with in this very own thread. Also factually, Lucid uses HERE maps which is far behind Google Maps and Apple Maps. You can look at some stories here where people get taken to the wrong address. Its definitely happened to me in my 2 months of owning the car. The place I am navigating to is usually down the block or on the wrong side of the street. Doesnt happen on Google Maps which Tesla uses. Not to mention the screen is much laggier than the Tesla's experience. Another kind of funny thing my partner pokes fun of is whenever the Lucid loses connectivity and regains it you hear "Follow the road." Just a funny tidbit about the voice navigation.

ADAS I would agree and wasn't arguing that. The ironic thing that people don't realize is that Lucid also charges $10k for their DDP. Sure its practically being given away at this point but it does everything basic autopilot does on the Tesla side..for a sticker price of $10k. Oh and it gives you access to the birds eye view. Without it, you wouldn't have that feature.

Lastly, it wasn't a personal attack. I made a lot of points and some were not addressed in your response. I pointed out a couple more above but I hope to not offend. Simply wanted to say that Tesla does have a lot of options that fix the issues you mentioned.

 

[koflo]

That's totally cool and fair. And I apologize if I'm coming off strong in disagreeing at times.

It's just that many of us do disagree strongly with you on that final bit. Which is fine. But there are a few folks here who just can't accept that many of us had or still have Teslas and did not like the software, either. We're not "haters." And we're not talking from lack of experience. We know the software stack you like very well and we don't prefer it.

And we grow a bit weary after a few years of new folks coming in here every couple of weeks trying to convince us of something we're very sure isn't true for us.

That's all we're trying to say. It's not a locked, set-in-stone fact that Tesla's software is excellent. Or even good. So it can't be stated as fact. You are very free to disagree with us. Heck, most of the auto industry pundits agree with you. But that doesn't make it fact.

It's also certainly easy to debate where Lucid is in terms of the state of their software. No one here thinks it doesn't need improvement. The specific bits that need improvement are going to be different to everyone, though. You want Google Maps? Makes sense. I prefer Apple Maps, so I'm glad I have that choice with CarPlay. Someone else really wants Android Auto? No disagreement there, even though I wouldn't ever use that. Why should only iPhone users get what they want?

And yeah, just about all of us agree the split screen thing turned out to be less useful than Lucid was hoping. I think having the two maps, as @hmp10 pointed out, is the one benefit. But that could be accomplished just as easily while still allowing more independence for each screen. Gravity's 3.0 design seems to have addressed that nicely.

Lucid has made many strides over the past year. It feels like slow progress, because it always is with software. But like I said before, it's heading in the right direction, so I'm confident it'll be much better this time next year.

Ahh I don't take it personal one bit. I think its totally okay to debate these things casually and civil-y(is that a word?).

The only thing I wanted to point out here is that we tend to agree then with the native mapping software and probably other pieces as well. You like Apple maps (which I would take btw if it was native). Regardless, as it stands now, you don't use the Lucid UX then for mapping. Given you do the same with music as you seem reliant on Apple CarPlay then you aren't using the Lucid UX much. Your using it as a portal into Apple CarPlay and CarPlays UX is what you deal with from a day to day for infotainment functions.

Im excited to see what Lucid comes out with in 3.0 though and again hope its closer than we think!

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I’m a Lucid FanBoy, but allow me to list what I’d like from the software that the car currently does not have:
1. Ability to close garage door without Xing out of screens.
2.A 3rd wiper speed in between too slow and too fast.
3. Real time efficiency combined with regen, combined with kW currently being used on the power meter. This would allow us to be as eco or not-eco as we wish.
4. Update of Tidal UI to be able to like and add songs to various playlists, same for Spotify (even though I don’t use Spotify, but it’s a useful feature).
5. Switch to GoogleMaps (or Apple) for route guidance, HERE is too error prone and sloppy, although I very much think the Lucid interface for navigation is superior to any other GPS software. Also change the navigation voice, she sounds absolutely depressed that she has to tell you to drive anywhere.
6. Ability to view any camera at any speed.
7. Make cross traffic collision avoidance selectable as warning only or warning/intervention.
8. Reduce “hands on wheel” alerts during highway assist.
9. Change charging curve to sustain faster speeds at higher SOC% if it won’t significantly reduce battery life.
10. driving journal (a record of your trips in the app, Volvo just implemented this and its clever).
11. Route planning in the app.
12. I guess some kind of sentry mode/dash cam mode just in case.
13. highway assist improvement on corners along with route based speed reduction when approaching corners so the car doesn’t try to take a corner at 80mph and then give up when it can’t stay on the corner. Tesla sucks at this though because it slows down to almost needing ABS to corner, similarly if a car cuts in front of you the Lucid is superior to all other cars I’ve driven in terms of gracefully adapting to changing conditions. Even the OutOfSpec guys agree the Lucid adaptive cruise is outstanding. Highway assist also needs to not be confused by exits and pull to the right if you’re in the right lane, and also needs to alert you in a more dramatic fashion if you need to take over. Auto lane changing would be nice too but not that important.

The car not having these things does not mean the software is terrible or embarrassing or even bad, just ways it can be improved. I had 1.0 software, which was bad because it was very slow, very inconsistent and needed frequent reboots.

 

[joec]

Ahh I don't take it personal one bit. I think its totally okay to debate these things casually and civil-y(is that a word?).

The only thing I wanted to point out here is that we tend to agree then with the native mapping software and probably other pieces as well. You like Apple maps (which I would take btw if it was native). Regardless, as it stands now, you don't use the Lucid UX then for mapping. Given you do the same with music as you seem reliant on Apple CarPlay then you aren't using the Lucid UX much. Your using it as a portal into Apple CarPlay and CarPlays UX is what you deal with from a day to day for infotainment functions.

Im excited to see what Lucid comes out with in 3.0 though and again hope its closer than we think!

True. The one area I do use Lucid's UX most (and where I prefer it greatly) is in setting seats, climate, vents, drive mode, defrost, sun shades, steering wheel heat, ambient lighting, turn signals, wipers—you know, all those pesky things that you need to do while driving. And, most importantly, once I set something how I want it, I just double tap on the car image, and voila. My Pilot panel goes black. Talk about distraction free.

Honestly, that might be my favorite feature.

These things, to me, are the heart of the UX of any car. And it's where Lucid shines.

Infotainment and nav is always going to be better for me with CarPlay, since my phone has my life in it. I just pop it on the wireless charger and let it continue whatever I was listening to earlier that day. And if I need nav, chances are CarPlay will prompt me for directions to my next appointment or to my home. It knows where I'm going before I do.

No one can compete with that.

That doesn't mean I never use Lucid's native apps. I had my car a few months before it had CarPlay, after all. And occasionally I do like listening to tunes via my USB stick. And once in a while I give the native Lucid nav another shot, just to see what they're up to. I find it perfectly fine for my needs, though again, it's never going to compete with my phone knowing exactly where I want to go already.

 

[borski]

I’ve heard about how bad it is but never seen a detailed explanation of what specifically was bad other than load times, latency, etc. Could you elaborate?

Took minutes for computers to boot whenever you opened the car, fairly frequent crashes with no easy way to reset (this was pre-logo reset), touching anything meant waiting 5-10 seconds for a response, fewer features than now, and so on.

…. You lost me at terrible. I find it ironic how thin skinned some people are around here when pointing out any disappointments they have with the car while criticizing other brands.
Happy new year

Pot, meet kettle?

Happy New Year to you too.

 

[EXOTIC2]

Took minutes for computers to boot whenever you opened the car, fairly frequent crashes with no easy way to reset (this was pre-logo reset), touching anything meant waiting 5-10 seconds for a response, fewer features than now, and so on.


Pot, meet kettle?

Happy New Year to you too.

Careful you’re gonna get a mod infraction
All good

hope all have a great new 2024

 

[APSenec]

Wow. Just dont get it. I must have low expectations. I think CarPlay is great. No complaints at all.

I was thinking the same thing. I must have low expectations or very minimal needs with software. I guess a Toyota Corolla could have the worlds “best” UI computer media system and meet an individual’s car needs.

 

[xponents]

Took minutes for computers to boot whenever you opened the car, fairly frequent crashes with no easy way to reset (this was pre-logo reset), touching anything meant waiting 5-10 seconds for a response, fewer features than now, and so on.


Pot, meet kettle?

Happy New Year to you too.

So worse than my 2014 Kia Sorento?(tbf that uvo system was amazing for this time)

But wow, that sounds INEXCUSABLE for modern software. I don’t get something still, how did lucid have that bad of a software suite? Was it because their new software hires were relatively recent?

 

[borski]

So worse than my 2014 Kia Sorento?(tbf that uvo system was amazing for this time)

I don’t know what this means or if it’s a joke lol

But wow, that sounds INEXCUSABLE for modern software. I don’t get something still, how did lucid have that bad of a software suite? Was it because their new software hires were relatively recent?

Don’t know, don’t care; I imagine the answer is Peter & co are car people, not software people. Interviewing for software is hard, and you need someone good at the helm leading the effort. The software team was reworked and this was before Mike Bell, who made the frankly brave decision (because selling “no features for half a year, only internal stability fixes nobody will obviously see” to management is indeed brave) to focus on a full rewrite, not features. It was the right move. A lot of the decisions made early on were ones that would sound good to a fresh college grad, but have absolutely awful consequences that anyone who had worked in industry for a few years would think were obvious. (They were obvious to me, for example, once I learned they were running a VM in the car rather than native software).

Since then, software under him has progressed very very well.

As a result, I’m extremely excited for Gravity and 3.0, because it’s the first version he’ll have had his hands in from the very beginning.

 

[hmp10]

Here is the link to the Tesla Birds Eye view. Again its very new but I keep up with the Tesla Subreddit still: https://electrek.co/2023/12/17/tesla-unveils-bird-eye-view-3d-reconstruction-park-assist/. Not as good but again cameras in general which was my point arent nearly as good on the Lucid. So sure for Parking specifically Lucid does better but tesla does have an alternative now. Plus all the other goodies that you cant tap into with the cameras.

According to the link you cited:

"However, the feature is only coming to Tesla Vision vehicles without ultrasonic sensors (Model 3/Y since 2022 and Model S/X since 2023). Elluswamy says that the feature will eventually also come to older Tesla vehicles equipped with ultrasonic sensors, but he didn’t confirm a timeline."

We have a 2021 Model S Plaid. So, no . . . it still doesn't have this feature. Given that it took Tesla three years to add this feature after Musk first teased it in 2020, I have no idea what "eventually" might mean in terms of getting it for our car.

Thus the birds-eye view remains a software feature our Lucid has but our Tesla doesn't.

 

[koflo]

According to the link you cited:

"However, the feature is only coming to Tesla Vision vehicles without ultrasonic sensors (Model 3/Y since 2022 and Model S/X since 2023). Elluswamy says that the feature will eventually also come to older Tesla vehicles equipped with ultrasonic sensors, but he didn’t confirm a timeline."

We have a 2021 Model S Plaid. So, no . . . it still doesn't have this feature. Given that it took Tesla three years to add this feature after Musk first teased it in 2020, I have no idea what "eventually" might mean in terms of getting it for our car.

Thus the birds-eye view remains a software feature our Lucid has but our Tesla doesn't.

To be fair I think the only reason they added it to the current fleet of vehicles is because they removed sensors which happened last year not in 2020. Elon says a lot of stupid things. His word of mouth timelines suck. Hopefully it comes to the USS sensored vehicles as well for your sake. Still have to pay $10k for it on the lucid side for DDP though. Which means there are a subset of lucid owners that don’t have that feature either. Regardless appreciate the points you made and get there are different strokes for different folks.

 

[crareman]

I think there is a high chance that a UX3.0 will appear on our Airs in 2024, after software development for Gravity is mostly complete. Gravity is due to initially ship in late 2024. So I don't expect a major update to our Airs soon. A switch to a new UX could possibly be the reason for long delays on "easy" changes like uncovering the HomeLink controls during reversing, or adding a "stop" time to scheduled charging. These could both be addressed in a major rewrite rather than patching the existing UX.

I've been reading this forum for over a year and have gotten so much knowledge and so many useful tips from its members. There are a lot of sharp minds that contribute, and I would think that Lucid would benefit immensely from them. Would it not make sense to release 3.0 to existing Air owners so that the Gravity would be beneficiary to real world, experienced users suggested refinements?

 

[borski]

To be fair I think the only reason they added it to the current fleet of vehicles is because they removed sensors which happened last year not in 2020. Elon says a lot of stupid things. His word of mouth timelines suck. Hopefully it comes to the USS sensored vehicles as well for your sake. Still have to pay $10k for it on the lucid side for DDP though. Which means there are a subset of lucid owners that don’t have that feature either. Regardless appreciate the points you made and get there are different strokes for different folks.

$2k. DreamDrive Premium has the overhead view.

Also, DreamDrive Pro is $6,750, not $10k, at least for Pure and Touring.

 

[borski]

I've been reading this forum for over a year and have gotten so much knowledge and so many useful tips from its members. There are a lot of sharp minds that contribute, and I would think that Lucid would benefit immensely from them. Would it not make sense to release 3.0 to existing Air owners so that the Gravity would be beneficiary to real world, experienced users suggested refinements?

The Gravity and the Air use entirely different chipsets and hardware under the hood; that means that anything built for Gravity can’t be directly translated to Air. However, ideas gained in the design of Gravity’s UX will make it back to the Air, so it’s unlikely we will see 3.0 in the Air before Gravity; but I don’t have an answer for sure or anything.

 

[koflo]

$2k. DreamDrive Premium has the overhead view.

Also, DreamDrive Pro is $6,750, not $10k, at least for Pure and Touring.

Thank you for the correction. I was misinformed! Is it 10k only for GTs then?

 

[borski]

Thank you for the correction. I was misinformed! Is it 10k only for GTs then?

$9k for Pro for GTs (not sure why)

But you only need Premium for the overhead view, which is still $2k