Lucid Sapphire - Extra Throttlehouse Video

[hmp10]

Is the range over 400 miles?

The model S Plaid has only a slight range reduction. I would put the over under at 450. It will be just under the DE performance.

According to Erich Bach, the range will be over 400 miles. However, it's not clear whether that is with the aero wheel covers which Lucid said add "tens of miles" to the range.

There are several reasons I think the range will be well under the DE range. Although the Sapphire and Dream share the same 118-kWh battery pack (which I assume also means the Sapphire will use the Samsung instead of the LG Chem batteries), the Sapphire battery pack is apparently being tweaked to produce more current. (Remember that the Dream power is limited by the battery pack, as its 1,111 hp is well under the rated power of the two motors.) The car's track is 1" wider in the front and 2" wider in the rear, inevitably adding to aerodynamic drag. Lips and spoilers have been enlarged to increase downforce, which always comes at the expense of drag.

One reason the range in the Model S Plaid is only slightly reduced over the Long Range is that the bodywork is identical between the two versions, with the same wheel and tire options available on both versions. And even when fitted with the same wheels and tires, the Plaid range still drops 27 miles against the standard range (348 miles vs. 375 miles). I suspect the Lucid Sapphire will exact a greater range penalty against the Dream Edition.

My guess is that the Sapphire will see over 400 miles of range only with the aero wheel covers installed.

 

[hmp10]

I am so glad that it's $250K!! Now I don't have to agonize over selling my DE-P and buying one. Just way too expense and I don't need to go any faster.

I'm driving myself crazy waffling back and forth. I have always traded cars, even after a year, when a more powerful version of a car I like comes out. It's an irrational obsession, I admit.

However, the Dream Edition is just so damned good as a driver's car on public roads in every dimension -- power, handling, comfort -- that this is the first time I might be able to say no. I couldn't make use of the extra power, and the blend of compliance and precision is so good in the Dream that I really worry about moving to a stiffer suspension setup that will probably only pay dividends at the track to which I will never take the car. And, although I think the blue color is really snazzy, I just can't get my head around the Mojave interior and sport seats. (I have never owned a car in which so many people climb in and start raving about how gorgeous the interior is, including the different colors of the front and back seats and the eucalyptus wood, both of which I have really come to love in the Santa Monica.)

 

[hmp10]

I agree Lucid makes a better car to my liking, but Tesla has the better tech at this point . . . .

Aside from software, what Tesla tech is better than Lucid's?

 

[Impatient7536]

Aside from software, what Tesla tech is better than Lucid's?

to some people, software IS tech, they don't care or understand that hardware tech sometimes matters just as much

 

[hmp10]

to some people, software IS tech, they don't care or understand that hardware tech sometimes matters just as much

Hardware technology "sometimes" matters as much? Cars transported people and goods for decades with no software available. Try getting a car loaded with the world's best software out of your driveway with no drive hardware. Or try running to the grocery store in your smartphone.

When comparing Tesla software to Lucid software, one should first recognize that Tesla has been putting software in production cars more than a decade longer than Lucid.

Also, the notion that Tesla software is state of the art is both a myth and a sad comment on the state of the art. We are on our second Tesla Model S (a 2021 Plaid.) While the Plaid's software is generally more responsive than the Air's at this point (and I sorely miss the satellite maps that Tesla has but Lucid doesn't), neither our 2015 Model S P90D nor our Plaid have been without their gremlins.

We have more problems using the key fob in our Plaid than we did in our 2015 Tesla. Every few days, the car refuses to recognize the key fob to open the doors. On other occasions, the fob will open the door but not start the car. For that, we have to take a key card out of our wallets and rub it over the phone charger pad. And this problem doesn't resolve itself upon a reboot, as similar problems resolve themselves in the Air. On days when this malfunction occurs int the Tesla, it will do it all day long when getting out of the car repeatedly for errands.

We occasionally get into the Plaid and have to wait a considerable time for the car to boot up. (This happens more frequently in the Air, but it happens enough in the Tesla to be surprising.)

And Tesla still doesn't have the simulated bird's-eye view for parking that the Lucid has (and many lesser cars have had for several years).

 

[Impatient7536]

Hardware technology "sometimes" matters as much? Cars transported people and goods for decades with no software available. Try getting a car loaded with the world's best software out of your driveway with no drive hardware. Or try running to the grocery store in your smartphone.

When comparing Tesla software to Lucid software, one should first recognize that Tesla has been putting software in production cars more than a decade longer than Lucid.

Also, the notion that Tesla software is state of the art is both a myth and a sad comment on the state of the art. We are on our second Tesla Model S (a 2021 Plaid.) While the Plaid's software is generally more responsive than the Air's at this point (and I sorely miss the satellite maps that Tesla has but Lucid doesn't), neither our 2015 Model S P90D nor our Plaid have been without their gremlins.

We have more problems using the key fob in our Plaid than we did in our 2015 Tesla. Every few days, the car refuses to recognize the key fob to open the doors. On other occasions, the fob will open the door but not start the car. For that, we have to take a key card out of our wallets and rub it over the phone charger pad. And this problem doesn't resolve itself upon a reboot, as similar problems resolve themselves in the Air. On days when this malfunction occurs int the Tesla, it will do it all day long when getting out of the car repeatedly for errands.

We occasionally get into the Plaid and have to wait a considerable time for the car to boot up. (This happens more frequently in the Air, but it happens enough in the Tesla to be surprising.)

And Tesla still doesn't have the simulated bird's-eye view for parking that the Lucid has (and many lesser cars have had for several years).

my bad, should've been more clear. I agree with you. was pointing to the fact that when people keep saying "tesla has better tech," they're completely dismissive of tech also having a hardware component, and not just software aspect.

 

[MoniputerLM]

Aside from software, what Tesla tech is better than Lucid's?

Watch the Munro videos about Tesla's hardware on YouTube.

 

[hmp10]

Watch the Munro videos about Tesla's hardware on YouTube.

Which ones? He's done many.

He's also fairly uninformed about Lucid, whereas he's done complete teardowns of several Teslas. So, while he can talk with some knowledge about Tesla, I'm not sure he's a good source of comparative information between the two brands.

 

[Tesla2.0]

my bad, should've been more clear. I agree with you. was pointing to the fact that when people keep saying "tesla has better tech," they're completely dismissive of tech also having a hardware component, and not just software aspect.

Tesla refused to have more cameras and LiDAR, they rather put money in software they can charge now to increase or maintain profit margin.

 

[Tesla2.0]

to some people, software IS tech, they don't care or understand that hardware tech sometimes matters just as much

Agreeing with my friend @MoniputerLM
Mercedes-Benz make better overall software, Tesla just make better driver-assistance component of software.

Better software is not just User Interface, it is also User Experience - not crashing, not lagging, not inconsistency.

Tesla obvious obsess with RoboTaxi and autonomous car and use that for their marketing hype.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I have a Tesla insider buddy has this rumor to me that Tesla will make ownership of cars obsolete down the road. It'll be magnitude cheaper to just get a robotaxi and more expensive to own car as hobby. Everyone uses subscription model in the future without bothering ownership of maintaining the car.

Right now it's average. 55 cents a mile. Factoring everything. Energy/insurance/depreciation. Tesla Robotaxi will bring that down to 15 cents to 19 cents per usage charge + monthly subscription.

This is what visionary Elon wanted.

 

[hmp10]

I have a Tesla insider buddy has this rumor to me that Tesla will make ownership of cars obsolete down the road. It'll be magnitude cheaper to just get a robotaxi and more expensive to own car as hobby. Everyone uses subscription model in the future without bothering ownership of maintaining the car.

The question is whether Americans outside of large urban areas and who have long-standing habits regarding personal transportation will embrace the robotaxi model enough to make it the dominant form of automobile usage in this country. Look at New York City, which has the highest availability and utilization rate of taxi services in the U.S. The city, especially outside of Manhattan, is still besieged by personal automobiles.

Personally, for hygiene reasons alone, I would be very reluctant to depend on a vehicle that others have used before me without the supervision of a driver. I've seen enough odors, stains, and filth even in taxis with human drivers.

 

[victoryroad]

I have a Tesla insider buddy has this rumor to me that Tesla will make ownership of cars obsolete down the road. It'll be magnitude cheaper to just get a robotaxi and more expensive to own car as hobby. Everyone uses subscription model in the future without bothering ownership of maintaining the car.

Right now it's average. 55 cents a mile. Factoring everything. Energy/insurance/depreciation. Tesla Robotaxi will bring that down to 15 cents to 19 cents per usage charge + monthly subscription.

This is what visionary Elon wanted.

I believe that Tesla made the same statement at least a few years ago when or perhaps before the Model 3 launch. We could all buy a 3 then let it go out for hire the 90% of the time that we were not driving it ourselves with annual revenue of $30K. How does a subscription model differ from leasing a vehicle? Elon is a genius, but his predictions of implementation have been quite optimistic, to put it kindly. Finally, yesterday he not only raised the FSD price to $15k but said that it would be operative this year.

 

[hmp10]

Elon is a genius, but his predictions of implementation have been quite optimistic, to put it kindly. Finally, yesterday he not only raised the FSD price to $15k but said that it would be operative this year.

For all the marketing hype about FSD, every time Tesla has to make a statement to a regulatory entity or in a legal forum, they admit FSD is currently a Level 2 ADAS system. The notion that they will make the leap from Level 2 to Level 4 (which is the level at which true self-driving enters the picture) in a few more months is just as absurd as all its other claims about FSD have been.

 

[joec]

I have a Tesla insider buddy has this rumor to me that Tesla will make ownership of cars obsolete down the road. It'll be magnitude cheaper to just get a robotaxi and more expensive to own car as hobby. Everyone uses subscription model in the future without bothering ownership of maintaining the car.

Right now it's average. 55 cents a mile. Factoring everything. Energy/insurance/depreciation. Tesla Robotaxi will bring that down to 15 cents to 19 cents per usage charge + monthly subscription.

This is what visionary Elon wanted.

I assume Apple is gunning for a similar model. I continue to think they will never "sell" cars. They will sell a taxi service, starting in limited areas, that will pick you up within 15 minutes and drop you off anywhere within a certain number of miles.

You'll be able to bundle the service in with your other Apple subscriptions.

I may very well continue to own cars, but using this as a supplementary service is a no-brainer, especially once it's in all the major cities I visit regularly.

 

[hmp10]

I called Lucid Sales today to see if I could get any more information bearing on a decision whether to move from our Dream Edition to a Sapphire. As I expected, they had few answers.

Q: Will Lucid offer a trade-in program by the time the Sapphire will deliver? A: None is currently being planned.

Q: When will the range of the Sapphire be confirmed? A: Not known.

Q: Will a Sapphire performance option eventually be offered on Airs with different color and trim choices? A: Probably not.

Q. How limited will the Sapphire production run be? A: Don't know, but it might not remain available indefinitely.

I'm a bit suspicious of that last answer. Lucid has already said the Sapphire sub-brand will be an ongoing edition to the model lineup, brought to future models as well. I cannot really imagine that a time will come when you can get a Sapphire edition of, say, their SUV or their future smaller sedan, but a Sapphire edition of an Air will not be available.

I'm going to take a bet that, despite the term "limited edition", the Sapphire will remain available over the longer term. For me, that means waiting until the auto press can get its hands on the car, particularly relating to ride and suspension.

And, more generally, while my liking of our Dream Edition leads me to expect that Lucid will become our household's go-to brand for other types of vehicles (such as the SUV), I'm not going to commit with a beefy deposit on a next model until I know more about just how far Lucid will get in resolving the continuing software issues with the Air.

 

[DuaneCorcoran]

I’m a huge fan of the company and the car. I can only justify to myself owning one. I currently have the Dream Performance. I may at some point upgrade to the Sapphire. I can’t imagine a sub 4 second 0-100. Incredible!

 

[DaveyBoyGT]

I have a Tesla insider buddy has this rumor to me that Tesla will make ownership of cars obsolete down the road. It'll be magnitude cheaper to just get a robotaxi and more expensive to own car as hobby. Everyone uses subscription model in the future without bothering ownership of maintaining the car.

Right now it's average. 55 cents a mile. Factoring everything. Energy/insurance/depreciation. Tesla Robotaxi will bring that down to 15 cents to 19 cents per usage charge + monthly subscription.

This is what visionary Elon wanted.

That concept is not Musk's unique vision. It has been around for a while. It's called TaaS"- Transportation as a Service. Whitney Tilson has been pushing this for a while in his investment promotions. It will likely come to pass when autonomous driving technology has matured and becomes safe, and the economics makes it worthwhile. Plus the government will step in eventually to regulate it to keep the garbage off the road, that will emerge if left unregulated.

 

[HC_79]

Which ones? He's done many.

He's also fairly uninformed about Lucid, whereas he's done complete teardowns of several Teslas. So, while he can talk with some knowledge about Tesla, I'm not sure he's a good source of comparative information between the two brands.

I really used to like Sandy but i'm starting to get this feeling that he's sold out a little. Alex from E for Electric (whilst the guy is a little annoying) asked him about a Rivian issue with the accelerator pedal falling off and asking if it was a design flaw to look at while they were tearing it down. Alex never heard a word from him and now refuses to have Sandy on his channel. It's well known if you give Rivian a bad review they cut you off and given how much Sandy just kept praising the Rivian it made me wonder if he's now omitting things to keep in Rivian's good books.

I'm surprised he hasn't done a Lucid also. Not like he can't get one secondhand. Heck, he could've purchased Jon Rettingers if he really wanted to tear one down. He's made some pretty vocal comments about Peter Rawlinson and now he's not doing a teardown at all.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I really used to like Sandy but i'm starting to get this feeling that he's sold out a little. Alex from E for Electric (whilst the guy is a little annoying) asked him about a Rivian issue with the accelerator pedal falling off and asking if it was a design flaw to look at while they were tearing it down. Alex never heard a word from him and now refuses to have Sandy on his channel. It's well known if you give Rivian a bad review they cut you off and given how much Sandy just kept praising the Rivian it made me wonder if he's now omitting things to keep in Rivian's good books.

I'm surprised he hasn't done a Lucid also. Not like he can't get one secondhand. Heck, he could've purchased Jon Rettingers if he really wanted to tear one down. He's made some pretty vocal comments about Peter Rawlinson and now he's not doing a teardown at all.

Alex = Pro Tesla
Sandy = Pro Ford/Rivian