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Lucid Air Touring v Porsche Taycan

Turbo S are now in the upper 80’s for low mile specs. Will most likely be my next move after the GT.
 
MJAir23TheGoat said:
Turbo S are now in the upper 80’s for low mile specs. Will most likely be my next move after the GT.
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I’ve been trying to secure one as a secondary car for about a month now with that depreciation. There was one that went for 77k on cars and bids. I’d be happy with a turbo or turbo s, pretty much whichever I can get around/below the $70k mark.
 
koflo said:
I’ve been trying to secure one as a secondary car for about a month now with that depreciation. There was one that went for 77k on cars and bids. I’d be happy with a turbo or turbo s, pretty much whichever I can get around/below the $70k mark.
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A DE-P and a Turbo S is an insane combo. Enjoy it when you get it!
 
vices said:
I've found YouTubers to be quite on target with how they describe ride and handling
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Not all YouTubers are the same. While YouTube (and written) reviews can be quite helpful, you really need to get familiar with their biases and agendas before relying too much on them.

First, get to know which ones are Tesla cult members (i. e., fan boys) who instantly trash anything that might threaten Tesla's standing in any dimension. Some of them have very high subscription and viewer numbers, so that is no indicator of objectivity. I've even seen such reviewers praise the rear seat room of the Model S over that of the Lucid Air, something that, as an owner of both, I know cannot be an honest opinion but rather a downright lie.

Also, become familiar with reviewers' real areas of expertise. For instance, Kyle Conner is extremely knowledgeable and personally experienced with various cars' charging behavior and with charging infrastructure issues. But in his test drive of the MB EQS he highly praised its handling, something that almost all other serious reviewers have found lacking.

Then there is "Edmunds", one of the most widely-consulted sources by car buyers. Apparently irritated by the software issues in their early Lucid, they seemed to develop almost a vendetta against the entire car, declaring the Air not "up to class standards" in the handling department. This is at odds with almost every seasoned reviewer, including drivers with serious racing credentials -- most notably Ben "The Stig" Collins from "Top Gear". (Collins drove the Air to victory in the handling event in the Goodwood Festival of Speed hill climb.). In order to justify its claims of sub-par handling, "Edmunds" even resorted to such nonsense as racing an Air sedan on 19" all-season tires against an Acura NSX sports car on beefy summer performance rubber.

"Car & Driver" is a storied source in the field of automotive coverage, but even they were still writing about the Air's air suspension (which it does not have) a year after the Air was in the hands of owners.

And, of course, there is Sandy Munro who has gained a very wide following from people who view him as a real technology guru when it comes to car engineering and manufacturing. Munro is actually all over the lot, sometimes getting technology terms confused, saying one thing in one video and its exact opposite in another -- often seeming to depend on how much he's had to drink (something that he sometimes does on camera to the point of slight slurring of words). He covered Tesla heavily, but when he belatedly turned his attention to Lucid, he found its space engineering to be amazing. Then, when he finally tore down a Lucid drive unit, he pronounced it to be the first he had seen to surpass Tesla's propulsion technology. He stayed in this groove until his long-time chief lieutenant, Cory Steuben, left him and wound up at Lucid. Soon thereafter Munro somehow landed a recurrent spot on some hack's YouTube financial channel, and from that berth began to pronounce doom and gloom on Lucid's prospects and again to laud Tesla for its technology leadership.

I could go on, but you get the gist.
 
hmp10 said:
Not all YouTubers are the same. While YouTube (and written) reviews can be quite helpful, you really need to get familiar with their biases and agendas before relying too much on them.

First, get to know which ones are Tesla cult members (i. e., fan boys) who instantly trash anything that might threaten Tesla's standing in any dimension. Some of them have very high subscription and viewer numbers, so that is no indicator of objectivity. I've even seen such reviewers praise the rear seat room of the Model S over that of the Lucid Air, something that, as an owner of both, I know cannot be an honest opinion but rather a downright lie.

Also, become familiar with reviewers' real areas of expertise. For instance, Kyle Conner is extremely knowledgeable and personally experienced with various cars' charging behavior and with charging infrastructure issues. But in his test drive of the MB EQS he highly praised its handling, something that almost all other serious reviewers have found lacking.

Then there is "Edmunds", one of the most widely-consulted sources by car buyers. Apparently irritated by the software issues in their early Lucid, they seemed to develop almost a vendetta against the entire car, declaring the Air not "up to class standards" in the handling department. This is at odds with almost every seasoned reviewer, including drivers with serious racing credentials -- most notably Ben "The Stig" Collins from "Top Gear". (Collins drove the Air to victory in the handling event in the Goodwood Festival of Speed hill climb.). In order to justify its claims of sub-par handling, "Edmunds" even resorted to such nonsense as racing an Air sedan on 19" all-season tires against an Acura NSX sports car on beefy summer performance rubber.

"Car & Driver" is a storied source in the field of automotive coverage, but even they were still writing about the Air's air suspension (which it does not have) a year after the Air was in the hands of owners.

And, of course, there is Sandy Munro who has gained a very wide following from people who view him as a real technology guru when it comes to car engineering and manufacturing. Munro is actually all over the lot, sometimes getting technology terms confused, saying one thing in one video and its exact opposite in another -- often seeming to depend on how much he's had to drink (something that he sometimes does on camera to the point of slight slurring of words). He covered Tesla heavily, but when he belatedly turned his attention to Lucid, he found its space engineering to be amazing. Then, when he finally tore down a Lucid drive unit, he pronounced it to be the first he had seen to surpass Tesla's propulsion technology. He stayed in this groove until his long-time chief lieutenant, Cory Steuben, left him and wound up at Lucid. Soon thereafter Munro somehow landed a recurrent spot on some hack's YouTube financial channel, and from that berth began to pronounce doom and gloom on Lucid's prospects and again to laud Tesla for its technology leadership.

I could go on, but you get the gist.
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Well said.

With YouTube car channels, it’s very important to separate the car nerds from the nerds who think they know cars. Tech folks have a really bad tendency to think their expertise in one field makes them geniuses everywhere else.

And on most “explainer” YouTube videos of any topic, the key factor for success seems to be confidence over competence. The more opinionated and cocksure someone is, the more successful they seem to be. People must be attracted to arrogance, for some reason. And they want to be lectured at, I guess.

Meanwhile, almost none of these creators have any real training or expertise to speak of. Except with the YouTube algorithm.
 
hmp10 said:
Not all YouTubers are the same. While YouTube (and written) reviews can be quite helpful, you really need to get familiar with their biases and agendas before relying too much on them.

First, get to know which ones are Tesla cult members (i. e., fan boys) who instantly trash anything that might threaten Tesla's standing in any dimension. Some of them have very high subscription and viewer numbers, so that is no indicator of objectivity. I've even seen such reviewers praise the rear seat room of the Model S over that of the Lucid Air, something that, as an owner of both, I know cannot be an honest opinion but rather a downright lie.

Also, become familiar with reviewers' real areas of expertise. For instance, Kyle Conner is extremely knowledgeable and personally experienced with various cars' charging behavior and with charging infrastructure issues. But in his test drive of the MB EQS he highly praised its handling, something that almost all other serious reviewers have found lacking.

Then there is "Edmunds", one of the most widely-consulted sources by car buyers. Apparently irritated by the software issues in their early Lucid, they seemed to develop almost a vendetta against the entire car, declaring the Air not "up to class standards" in the handling department. This is at odds with almost every seasoned reviewer, including drivers with serious racing credentials -- most notably Ben "The Stig" Collins from "Top Gear". (Collins drove the Air to victory in the handling event in the Goodwood Festival of Speed hill climb.). In order to justify its claims of sub-par handling, "Edmunds" even resorted to such nonsense as racing an Air sedan on 19" all-season tires against an Acura NSX sports car on beefy summer performance rubber.

"Car & Driver" is a storied source in the field of automotive coverage, but even they were still writing about the Air's air suspension (which it does not have) a year after the Air was in the hands of owners.

And, of course, there is Sandy Munro who has gained a very wide following from people who view him as a real technology guru when it comes to car engineering and manufacturing. Munro is actually all over the lot, sometimes getting technology terms confused, saying one thing in one video and its exact opposite in another -- often seeming to depend on how much he's had to drink (something that he sometimes does on camera to the point of slight slurring of words). He covered Tesla heavily, but when he belatedly turned his attention to Lucid, he found its space engineering to be amazing. Then, when he finally tore down a Lucid drive unit, he pronounced it to be the first he had seen to surpass Tesla's propulsion technology. He stayed in this groove until his long-time chief lieutenant, Cory Steuben, left him and wound up at Lucid. Soon thereafter Munro somehow landed a recurrent spot on some hack's YouTube financial channel, and from that berth began to pronounce doom and gloom on Lucid's prospects and again to laud Tesla for its technology leadership.

I could go on, but you get the gist.
Click to expand...
You’re comparing more of the tech focused EV reviewers. I don’t trust any of the ones you listed for ride and handling reviews. I personally prefer to watch more of the driving oriented reviewers. Savagegeese, Chris Harris, Jason Cammisa, throttle house, road&track, top gear although I miss the original trio’s car reviews (Although Richard Hammond has been back reviewing 911s recently. Good videos too).
 
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momo3605 said:
You’re comparing more of the tech focused EV reviewers. I don’t trust any of the ones you listed for driving reviews. I personally prefer to watch more of the driving oriented reviewers. Savagegeese, Chris Harris, throttle house, road&track, top gear although I miss the original trio’s car reviews (Although Richard Hammond has been back reviewing 911s recently. Good videos too).
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Yep, that was my point. You have to know which YouTubers you can rely on for what if you going to use YouTube reviews as a substitute for trying out the cars yourself. Personally, my favorite "jack of all trades" reviewers are "Throttle House", who cover all aspects of a vehicle in a balanced and reasonably objective way.

I probably shouldn't go here, but . . . they called the shot correctly in presaging Mercedes' decision to stop development of its large EV platform when they dubbed the EQS the "Electric Qrap Sedan" for its bulk, poor space engineering, and lackluster handling -- a view that was echoed by "Engineering Explained" when it made MB Exhibit 1 for "lazy engineering". (It still boggles my mind that Lucid, even with its own sales challenges, managed to sell more Airs in the U.S. than Mercedes -- with its storied reputation for engineering, quality, and luxury -- could sell of its EQS, a head-to-head competitor with the Air. What a colossal illustration for the proposition that prior strength can become an impediment to necessary course changes.)
 
For what it’s worth, I had a 2021 Taycan 4S and just test drove a 2023 Touring a few weeks ago, and in any mode besides smooth I felt I drive VERY similar to my Taycan. Maybe at the edges of performance there is a difference in sportiness, but in day-to-day I was shocked at how similar they handled.

Given, I did not have the torque vectoring or real wheel steering packages on the Taycan. It was that test drive that actually had me order a 2024 GT.
 
Jackie Daytona said:
For what it’s worth, I had a 2021 Taycan 4S and just test drove a 2023 Touring a few weeks ago, and in any mode besides smooth I felt I drive VERY similar to my Taycan. Maybe at the edges of performance there is a difference in sportiness, but in day-to-day I was shocked at how similar they handled.

Given, I did not have the torque vectoring or real wheel steering packages on the Taycan. It was that test drive that actually had me order a 2024 GT.
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I’ve driven GTS/Turbo with rear wheel steer and sport pasm and it feels smaller and way more nimble than my lucid. Curious how much difference there is between like a base spec Taycan and one with all the performance options. But I think If you want the most sporty EV and willing to compromise on space, Taycan is the way to go. If you need a sporty EV with a lot of space, Lucid is best. More of a jack of all trades kind of car.
 
momo3605 said:
I’ve driven GTS/Turbo with rear wheel steer and sport pasm and it feels smaller and way more nimble than my lucid. Curious how much difference there is between like a base spec Taycan and one with all the performance options. But I think If you want the most sporty EV and willing to compromise on space, Taycan is the way to go. If you need a sporty EV with a lot of space, Lucid is best. More of a jack of all trades kind of car.
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Yeah, I would agree.
 
Today I learned that Sandy Munroe is a drunk, although I shouldn't have been surprised as one look at the guy's skin you can see his liver is about to melt away. Rivian owners aren't his biggest fans either as his recommendations to Rivian reduced some quality features.
 
momo3605 said:
I’ve driven GTS/Turbo with rear wheel steer and sport pasm and it feels smaller and way more nimble than my lucid. Curious how much difference there is between like a base spec Taycan and one with all the performance options. But I think If you want the most sporty EV and willing to compromise on space, Taycan is the way to go. If you need a sporty EV with a lot of space, Lucid is best. More of a jack of all trades kind of car.
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I never priced fully loaded GTS/Turbo so i have no idea the difference between the Porsche and the Sapphire. I'm assuming it's not that much, price wise.

Vectoring, handling, space, comfort, well...I need some real comparison.
Not that I would ever buy a Porsche, like I said, it's just for comparison reasons.
 
Batteryman said:
Does the new redesigned Taycan have OTA updates ? Or do you still need to drop off the car at the dealership? I haven’t read anything on this in the press releases or reviews
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I’m not entirely certain. I believe the new Macan has better OTA capabilities and so I presume the Taycan will as well, but if I had to guess, they won’t be OTA in the same way Rivian/Tesla/Lucid do OTA. Meaning I wouldn’t expect feature updates and whatnot..
 
Batteryman said:
Does the new redesigned Taycan have OTA updates ? Or do you still need to drop off the car at the dealership? I haven’t read anything on this in the press releases or reviews
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I would not rely on OTA from a manufacturer like Porsche. But you can’t really compare them to the likes of Lucid that tell you upfront that they are shipping incomplete software and you have to wait for dreamdrive pro features, android auto, etc…
 
Batteryman said:
Does the new redesigned Taycan have OTA updates ? Or do you still need to drop off the car at the dealership? I haven’t read anything on this in the press releases or reviews
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AFAIK almost all the updates still require a visit to the dealership
 
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