Lucid Air Stereo "Surreal Sound" Test Impressions

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haha yes analog, thanks for correction.

I'm generally distrustful of factory car audio. Even on upgraded trims that I've rode on with these multi speakers set-up, they sounded tinny. They were probably just streaming low quality compressed streaming format which didn't help. But again I don't have high expectation of car audio so when @copper posted and said how good the Air audio's are I got super excited.

I just like to experiment hence I'm wondering if Air has analog in although it's impractical to use even if it did. I'm extra excited for the Dolby Atmos because I do like to listen to instrumentals and film scores!

@copper are you in HeadFi forums or any other forums? Would like to see specs of speakers set-ups you have.

Glad to hear my initial review was useful! I’ve been slammed with client work, so getting my new YouTube channel and site ready for the stereo review has taken a back seat.

Some notes:
  • I share your distrust of factory car audio. Most of it is crap that uses inferior drivers, amplification and DSP but slaps a brand name on it (I'm looking at you, H/K!)
  • Car stereos are frequently subject to terrible sound because the treble is too high along with tons of reflections, combined with distortion at higher volumes that salespeople use to "show off" the stereo. Once I rode in a Mercedes where the salesman started blasting some music and it was physically painful.
  • I think you'll be ok without a wired or analog input in the Air. So far as I've gotten more used to the stereo day-to-day, I find I use Tidal (!) when I want the real Atmos or master experience, but otherwise Apple Music will suffice for 90% of playback.
  • Instrumentals and vocals just dazzle in the Air. If you like scores you'll be a happy camper. I've found myself really enjoying some artists that never really worked in cars - M83 (the album Junk, specifically), Rodrigo y Gabriela, anything from Hans Zimmer, Chicane, Dead Can Dance's live sessions, etc.
  • The Air is weaker on heavily synthesized tracks, dubstep (I swear I can hear the DSP start crying on Skrillex or Knife Party), or anything that has really punishing sustained notes. I'm not sure if this is the software trying to keep from overloading drivers or a weakness in the amplification (I suspect the software).
As for my home stereo, I've got my old reliable Amiga towers I built years back, some three-way Hypex amplified projects in progress, and a to-be-assembled line array of 40 BMR drivers. I don't post actively on HiFi forums right now because life is nuts, but once I put a new pair together in July I'll post them in the general discussion section here.
 
  • Instrumentals and vocals just dazzle in the Air. If you like scores you'll be a happy camper. I've found myself really enjoying some artists that never really worked in cars - M83 (the album Junk, specifically), Rodrigo y Gabriela, anything from Hans Zimmer, Chicane, Dead Can Dance's live sessions, etc.
The system really shines on quiet tracks, Gustavo Santaolala’s score to the game The Last of Us is chilling, you definitely hear the fingers slipping on the guitar strings. And now yes I must check out M83 on the system!


  • The Air is weaker on heavily synthesized tracks, dubstep (I swear I can hear the DSP start crying on Skrillex or Knife Party), or anything that has really punishing sustained notes. I'm not sure if this is the software trying to keep from overloading drivers or a weakness in the amplification (I suspect the software).
Hmmmm, I blasted Squarepusher’s Dark Steering and it was like being at an actual show. Basically I have yet to find a music genre the Lucid is not stellar at. I find I don’t get eat fatigue nearly as much as other hyped car audio systems.
 
I wonder what impact the solid roof will have on "Surreal Sound". I would think that the headliner would absorb sound rather than reflect like the glass.
 
I wonder what impact the solid roof will have on "Surreal Sound". I would think that the headliner would absorb sound rather than reflect like the glass.
If they’re smart they’ll tune the EQ in the DSP for that interior difference, but I’m not sure they will?
 
The system really shines on quiet tracks, Gustavo Santaolala’s score to the game The Last of Us is chilling, you definitely hear the fingers slipping on the guitar strings. And now yes I must check out M83 on the system!



Hmmmm, I blasted Squarepusher’s Dark Steering and it was like being at an actual show. Basically I have yet to find a music genre the Lucid is not stellar at. I find I don’t get eat fatigue nearly as much as other hyped car audio systems.
Good point - haven’t tried squarepusher yet. It’s more about certain synthesized sounds that seem to throw off the active crossover (bassnectar for example) whereas others sounds epic (YHWH by BT). It may have more to do with the sound engineering on the track than the genre.
 
There was a recent discussion (which I can't now find) on the rear speakers not putting out much sound when the balance is set to the center of the car. I had noticed that the sound stage was very forward for front seat passengers, but rear passengers had commented that the audio sounded great from the rear. Last evening we were on the way to dinner with friends in the back. When we put on some music, one rear passenger immediately asked, "why am I only hearing the speakers in the front of the car?" I checked, and the balance was set to center. We had to push the balance setting toward the back of the car for them to get any sense of a surround stage.

Is there something wrong with the software? (I have twice had problems with ear-splitting levels of white noise coming out of the right rear C-pillar speaker at 15-20 second intervals. Related to this balance issue . . . ?)
 
There was a recent discussion (which I can't now find) on the rear speakers not putting out much sound when the balance is set to the center of the car. I had noticed that the sound stage was very forward for front seat passengers, but rear passengers had commented that the audio sounded great from the rear. Last evening we were on the way to dinner with friends in the back. When we put on some music, one rear passenger immediately asked, "why am I only hearing the speakers in the front of the car?" I checked, and the balance was set to center. We had to push the balance setting toward the back of the car for them to get any sense of a surround stage.

Is there something wrong with the software? (I have twice had problems with ear-splitting levels of white noise coming out of the right rear C-pillar speaker at 15-20 second intervals. Related to this balance issue . . . ?)
I did a test with this 1.2.6 software where I sat in the back with audio played in both the normal driver position and also moved towards the rear and it was definitely audible in the back seat speakers with balance set to the front. You may need a service visit? Did you try it with audio sources from different apps and not just one source like Tidal or Bluetooth? I’ve had the white noise blast thing one time, it was PAINFUL. A reboot cured it, never happened again (so far).
 
I’ve had the white noise blast thing one time, it was PAINFUL. A reboot cured it, never happened again (so far).

Although I shouldn't revel in your pain, I am glad to hear someone else had this happen. It indicates it's probably a software issue instead of a hardware issue and (perhaps) easier to resolve than something in the wiring of the speaker.

A significant number of weeks passed between my two episodes, though, so I'm afraid you might see it again. The first time, there was someone sitting in the rear seat right in front of the speaker, and it was brutal.

I'm going to call Lucid this coming week about the balance issue.
 
Although I shouldn't revel in your pain, I am glad to hear someone else had this happen. It indicates it's probably a software issue instead of a hardware issue and (perhaps) easier to resolve than something in the wiring of the speaker.

A significant number of weeks passed between my two episodes, though, so I'm afraid you might see it again. The first time, there was someone sitting in the rear seat right in front of the speaker, and it was brutal.

I'm going to call Lucid this coming week about the balance issue.
That white noise problem might require a firmware update to the DSP. I’ve seen this problem happen with pro audio equipment, it’s not unique to Lucid. Basically what happens is on boot up the DSP accidentally sends out or sees something it interprets as all available bits and sample rate of audio and plays it, and does not properly auto-mute, I think probably because the capacitance from the digital to analog convert that goes to the amp is not set correctly. I’ve also seen it happen when someone plugged a SPDIF digital audio cable into a digital to analog converter that was already connected to a live amplifier, and the instant signal that occurs because things were activated out of sequence leads to a blast of maximum loudness white noise. Just like with the pro audio gear, there’s only one fix without a software or firmware upgrade, turn it off and back on again. I think in the lucid the amp booted slightly before the DSP, so blammo, no auto-muting because the DSP saw an already active amp ready to accept signal to without first having itself set to digital zero, which it would have done if DSP/D to A converter booted first followed by the amplifier (we’re talking maybe a milisecond or two time difference). The folks who designed the Lucid system should be able to fix it, this is not a new problem, I’d seen it happen with digital audio equipment as far back as the early 2000s.

Sorry long post 🤪
 
i hope the Lucid employee who is monitoring this program passes your post up the chain. Turning the volume down doesn't stop it. If it were to happen on the highway with rear seat passengers, they could be in real agony before you could get the car off the road for a reboot.
 
I'm in day 2 of ownership and have to say sound stage in center "indicated" is forward. I moved it back yesterday but didn't check to see if it defaulted back to the original position. There needs to be a button to center L-R and F-R
 
I'm in day 2 of ownership and have to say sound stage in center "indicated" is forward. I moved it back yesterday but didn't check to see if it defaulted back to the original position. There needs to be a button to center L-R and F-R

The balance automatically centers if you tap the white dot twice. (I don't know if this works for only one axis, though.)
 
I'm in day 2 of ownership and have to say sound stage in center "indicated" is forward. I moved it back yesterday but didn't check to see if it defaulted back to the original position. There needs to be a button to center L-R and F-R
Once I set the Equalizer and the Balance it stays put and doesn't default back to center settings. That said, the Balance setting doesn't work with Dolby Atmos recordings on Tidal but the Equalizer does.
 
Once I set the Equalizer and the Balance it stays put and doesn't default back to center settings. That said, the Balance setting doesn't work with Dolby Atmos recordings on Tidal but the Equalizer does.
It may have something to do with how Dolby Atmos is encoded for discreet channels which may over-ride the Lucid’s position control. Dolby is VERY controlling with their codecs and I very much doubt they would allow Lucid to over-ride positioning of a mix anymore than they would allow a cinema projectionist to over-ride it. They’re so controlling that you have to have a Dolby licensed tech to do literally ANYTHING with the system beyond encoding and decoding, like you can’t even calibrate each individual speaker without them. In my prior career anytime we wanted to recalibrate our mix suite (like if we installed new equipment etc) we had to use Dolby’s certified box and have it confirmed by a Dolby representative. Makes sense as their system must be standardized across all cinemas and thus mixing stages in order to be representative of the original mix.
 
It may have something to do with how Dolby Atmos is encoded for discreet channels which may over-ride the Lucid’s position control. Dolby is VERY controlling with their codecs and I very much doubt they would allow Lucid to over-ride positioning of a mix anymore than they would allow a cinema projectionist to over-ride it. They’re so controlling that you have to have a Dolby licensed tech to do literally ANYTHING with the system beyond encoding and decoding, like you can’t even calibrate each individual speaker without them. In my prior career anytime we wanted to recalibrate our mix suite (like if we installed new equipment etc) we had to use Dolby’s certified box and have it confirmed by a Dolby representative. Makes sense as their system must be standardized across all cinemas and thus mixing stages in order to be representative of the original mix.
Ah, that explains why the balance gets greyed out when listening to Tidal at times. I thought it was a software glitch, but that makes sense. It happens with the 360 Audio songs too, so those must be encoded in a similar way.
 
Great thread. I am about to have our Air GT delivered. I see discussion of Tidal masters… what are the limits of Tidal in the Air? Can it play 24bit at 192khz?
 
Great thread. I am about to have our Air GT delivered. I see discussion of Tidal masters… what are the limits of Tidal in the Air? Can it play 24bit at 192khz?
Tidal MQA is capable of up to 24 bit/352khz but of course it depends on the source master, which may be lower resolution.
 
Among my many hobbies is DIY HiFi. I build speakers and amps for fun and have a passion for really great sounding systems. There's a special kind of joy from listening to music on a system you designed yourself and is really dialed-in for the room. You get to realize the fruits of your hard work in a way that few other hobbies provide.

Ever since Lucid started marketing the Surreal Sound, I knew I had to get a proper test. With that in mind, I met up today with @borski to run some tests on the stereo using a measurement mic and a few reference tracks.

TL;DR: Excellent sound staging if a little bright on the treble, small drop around 130-200hz, great bass extension but needs some oomph. You'll probably want to bump the bass EQ +2 to +4 DB and the treble down -1 to -2 db (if it seems harsh at times, YMMV). Designed for long-listening without fatigue and brings out details you'll love to hear.

The Data

Below is the results of some test loops between 30hz-20khz. I used Room EQ Wizard on my laptop, connected to the Air via bluetooth.

View attachment 1092

Caveats:
  • We ran this with both of us in the car, climate control off, but there's some reflections and background noise that make the graph rougher than it will really sound to your ears.
  • I was in the passenger seat which is going to have a disadvantage vs. driver for my impressions of music.
  • I intentionally did not test Atmos tracks. The goal here was pure 2ch stereo as that is what I know and can test the best.
  • [edit] Apparently, to connect a laptop to bluetooth you'll need to have it set up both as a phone and audio device in the Air.
Technical Impressions
  • Bass goes a long ways down, but has a -3db of 44hz before it levels off and then stays solid to ~26hz. This means a few of the deeper bass hits lack "oomph" but are not by any means missed.
    • This is something that could be adjusted for in EQ and I'm surprised they let it remain. I would have dropped the mid bass down ~5db and bumped up the absolute bottom to compensate.
    • The sub clearly rolls in at 150hz and has a lot of output. However, it isn't booming which means some tracks can feel light because we're used to overcompensated low-end in car stereos. This means you get a more "real" sound, but can lack a bit of excitement unless you crank it.
  • There's a dip after the sub where the mids roll in, rising to a pretty big hump at 700hz before rolling back as you go higher.
    • The midrange is very healthy. Music might seem more "full" than you're used to - that is how it should sound!
    • Lots of car stereos will lack output in several spots of 200hz-2khz range, resulting in entire instruments going missing on tracks (either due to DSP, reflection/cancellation, etc.) The lucid does not have this problem, despite the jagged response due to room modes.
    • The dip on the lucid at 130-200hz isn't that big of a deal as you won't notice it, except with very cello-forward or string-bass compositions.
  • The treble is a bit bright and could cause a bit of fatigue on long sessions.
    • That peak at 8khz is pretty noticeable, and some tracks might end up harsh.
    • The treble ends abruptly at ~16khz for some reason. This is probably the DSP as it definitely doesn't look like a natural rolloff on the tweeter. Since I was running pure 2ch output this could be Atmos' fault. It won't mess up your listening.
Impressions with Music

I was very happy with the sound staging and depth of response. Horns, strings, vocals, all excelled. We tested Ce Matin-là by Air for purity of a French horn, then Loyal by Odesza for a more complex arrangement. Both did extremely well with the instruments being very clearly placed with no "fuzz". We also gave Young by Vallis Alps a go for a slower-paced but dynamic track with my favorite combination of vocals and bass of late. The singer's voice was very clear, no ringing or harshness (very hard in a car) and the bass line was tight and didn't suffer from any phase delay or lingering-boom. I should have popped on some Faith No More to get a feel for kick drums. Oh well, next time!

We also tossed on some good orchestral and Jazz tracks (Snarky puppy!). The midrange is really a highlight on this stereo, with every instrument coming alive. The guitar, cello and flute on Morning in Norkia from the anime Last Exile (random track, but absolutely excellent engineering) sounded like they're right in front of you. For fans of live instruments and vocals you'll be very happy. Synths and electronic music also do very well, with swelling sounds getting goosebumps immediately.

However, the system can also be unforgiving. You're going to notice poorly engineered tracks much more readily as you can hear the difference in quality between the live instrument and the synthesized one. Sampled music with hiss/hum or low quality takes will be clear as day. This is common in HiFi, but hearing it in a car is a first. It will bring out imperfections in ways that surprise you, an inadvertent drawback for the level of detail it provides.

That said, the overall experience is really joyful. There were moments that the music just really took over and the world melted away. I've not gotten that in a car before the Lucid!

Areas for Improvement

The system lacks volume in the absolute lowest octaves and getting that bottom end to really hit. This could be compensated with EQ, but I didn't have time test what range the bass EQ will affect (some of them go all the way up to 300-400hz). It doesn't lack for extension, just output, and I don't believe it is from insufficient amplification. A feature I'd love to see from Lucid is the ability to more finely tune the response, or at least some improvement in percussion and sustained bass notes while dialing back the top. An optional 10-band or better EQ would be a nice option for advanced users.

The top end can be a bit bright, especially with cymbal-heavy percussion, but I didn't detect a lot of distortion. Dialing this back a bit to reduce fatigue would help. I don't know what drivers are used, but this is common in titanium and aluminum dome tweeters that can get really tinny without some proper adjustment. I'm wondering if the glass canopy causes a lot of reflections or cancellations, which means they have to boost output to compensate. I've not designed a car stereo however, so I'm sure they've got their reasons why they bumped up the top-end.

(Note on treble: as you age your hearing in the higher range can diminish, which may make you want more treble to compensate. This is completely normal so take the top-end feedback with a grain of salt.)

Fix that extreme low-end: I'm not sure if there are two subs instead of one, but a -3bd of 44hz is pretty high for what the car has. Maybe a shelf biquad with a high Q to raise it a few db?

Final Thoughts

This is absolutely an excellent system. The level of detail in it is top-notch for a car stereo and with a little bit of adjustment you'll get a ton of enjoyment. I'd say this is designed more for extended listening without fatigue instead of thumping along. The end result is you'll find yourself listening to music longer without needing to turn it down, and will notice things that had been missing. It will capture your interest in a way most car stereos do not, akin to sitting in a dedicated listening room with a dialed-in system.

A lot of mass-market car stereos will hit the bass on a track hard. They'll get your blood going, but you also end up turning it down after a bit - there's distortion, ringing, or a "boom" that fatigues you. The Lucid does not suffer from this at all. Instead, it feels like a system that could use a few improvements, but gets so close to the mark that I really can't fault it, which says a lot.

I'm really surprised to get a stereo this good on the first car from a new carmaker. Surreal sound indeed!
Your experience is substantially different from mine on a recent test drive. I am an audiophile with an appreciation for high quality high resolution audio. The Lucid surreal sound pro was an utter disappointment. Maybe there are different software versions involved that cause a major difference?
 
Your experience is substantially different from mine on a recent test drive. I am an audiophile with an appreciation for high quality high resolution audio. The Lucid surreal sound pro was an utter disappointment. Maybe there are different software versions involved that cause a major difference?
This reminds me of Brad Carlson.
1) was the test drive car a prototype or production car?
2) did it have Tidal HiFi Plus subscription
3) if so did it have HiFi streaming turned on?
4) Did you play any Atmos tracks, like was the Atmos logo lit up or greyed out?
5) what was the equalizer set to?

In summary, unless the car was set up for optimum listening conditions to evaluate to audio system, you can’t evaluate the audio system. This is not your fault, IMO Lucid is doing a bad job with their test drive vehicles of not properly showcasing one of the car’s selling points, the audio system.
 
Your experience is substantially different from mine on a recent test drive. I am an audiophile with an appreciation for high quality high resolution audio. The Lucid surreal sound pro was an utter disappointment. Maybe there are different software versions involved that cause a major difference?
I was at a Lucid studio and they said, at least the one in there, doesnt have the Pro system. No clue what speakers they have there.
 
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