Lucid Air Stereo "Surreal Sound" Test Impressions

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Something I did notice today. The woofers and or subwoofers are linked to the front speakers. So if you use the default center/center front-rear you get way better low end.

I had been fading to the rear to get more surround headphone sound but I see now will have to get used to old fashioned two channel stereo.

Weird...
That's quite interesting. I never tried that. Will have to test it out.

I would like a full equalizer so that I can tune music to my sound preferences.
Frankly, if I could just plug my computer and REW in to tune the DSP I would, but no way in hell is Lucid letting me do that...so I'd settle for 5-9 band EQ.
 
could you pop over and help me setup my theater LOL

Not kidding triad system needs tweaking

great info thanks
 
Among my many hobbies is DIY HiFi. I build speakers and amps for fun and have a passion for really great sounding systems. There's a special kind of joy from listening to music on a system you designed yourself and is really dialed-in for the room. You get to realize the fruits of your hard work in a way that few other hobbies provide.

Ever since Lucid started marketing the Surreal Sound, I knew I had to get a proper test. With that in mind, I met up today with @borski to run some tests on the stereo using a measurement mic and a few reference tracks.

TL;DR: Excellent sound staging if a little bright on the treble, small drop around 130-200hz, great bass extension but needs some oomph. You'll probably want to bump the bass EQ +2 to +4 DB and the treble down -1 to -2 db (if it seems harsh at times, YMMV). Designed for long-listening without fatigue and brings out details you'll love to hear.

The Data

Below is the results of some test loops between 30hz-20khz. I used Room EQ Wizard on my laptop, connected to the Air via bluetooth.

View attachment 1092

Caveats:
  • We ran this with both of us in the car, climate control off, but there's some reflections and background noise that make the graph rougher than it will really sound to your ears.
  • I was in the passenger seat which is going to have a disadvantage vs. driver for my impressions of music.
  • I intentionally did not test Atmos tracks. The goal here was pure 2ch stereo as that is what I know and can test the best.
  • [edit] Apparently, to connect a laptop to bluetooth you'll need to have it set up both as a phone and audio device in the Air.
Technical Impressions
  • Bass goes a long ways down, but has a -3db of 44hz before it levels off and then stays solid to ~26hz. This means a few of the deeper bass hits lack "oomph" but are not by any means missed.
    • This is something that could be adjusted for in EQ and I'm surprised they let it remain. I would have dropped the mid bass down ~5db and bumped up the absolute bottom to compensate.
    • The sub clearly rolls in at 150hz and has a lot of output. However, it isn't booming which means some tracks can feel light because we're used to overcompensated low-end in car stereos. This means you get a more "real" sound, but can lack a bit of excitement unless you crank it.
  • There's a dip after the sub where the mids roll in, rising to a pretty big hump at 700hz before rolling back as you go higher.
    • The midrange is very healthy. Music might seem more "full" than you're used to - that is how it should sound!
    • Lots of car stereos will lack output in several spots of 200hz-2khz range, resulting in entire instruments going missing on tracks (either due to DSP, reflection/cancellation, etc.) The lucid does not have this problem, despite the jagged response due to room modes.
    • The dip on the lucid at 130-200hz isn't that big of a deal as you won't notice it, except with very cello-forward or string-bass compositions.
  • The treble is a bit bright and could cause a bit of fatigue on long sessions.
    • That peak at 8khz is pretty noticeable, and some tracks might end up harsh.
    • The treble ends abruptly at ~16khz for some reason. This is probably the DSP as it definitely doesn't look like a natural rolloff on the tweeter. Since I was running pure 2ch output this could be Atmos' fault. It won't mess up your listening.
Impressions with Music

I was very happy with the sound staging and depth of response. Horns, strings, vocals, all excelled. We tested Ce Matin-là by Air for purity of a French horn, then Loyal by Odesza for a more complex arrangement. Both did extremely well with the instruments being very clearly placed with no "fuzz". We also gave Young by Vallis Alps a go for a slower-paced but dynamic track with my favorite combination of vocals and bass of late. The singer's voice was very clear, no ringing or harshness (very hard in a car) and the bass line was tight and didn't suffer from any phase delay or lingering-boom. I should have popped on some Faith No More to get a feel for kick drums. Oh well, next time!

We also tossed on some good orchestral and Jazz tracks (Snarky puppy!). The midrange is really a highlight on this stereo, with every instrument coming alive. The guitar, cello and flute on Morning in Norkia from the anime Last Exile (random track, but absolutely excellent engineering) sounded like they're right in front of you. For fans of live instruments and vocals you'll be very happy. Synths and electronic music also do very well, with swelling sounds getting goosebumps immediately.

However, the system can also be unforgiving. You're going to notice poorly engineered tracks much more readily as you can hear the difference in quality between the live instrument and the synthesized one. Sampled music with hiss/hum or low quality takes will be clear as day. This is common in HiFi, but hearing it in a car is a first. It will bring out imperfections in ways that surprise you, an inadvertent drawback for the level of detail it provides.

That said, the overall experience is really joyful. There were moments that the music just really took over and the world melted away. I've not gotten that in a car before the Lucid!

Areas for Improvement

The system lacks volume in the absolute lowest octaves and getting that bottom end to really hit. This could be compensated with EQ, but I didn't have time test what range the bass EQ will affect (some of them go all the way up to 300-400hz). It doesn't lack for extension, just output, and I don't believe it is from insufficient amplification. A feature I'd love to see from Lucid is the ability to more finely tune the response, or at least some improvement in percussion and sustained bass notes while dialing back the top. An optional 10-band or better EQ would be a nice option for advanced users.

The top end can be a bit bright, especially with cymbal-heavy percussion, but I didn't detect a lot of distortion. Dialing this back a bit to reduce fatigue would help. I don't know what drivers are used, but this is common in titanium and aluminum dome tweeters that can get really tinny without some proper adjustment. I'm wondering if the glass canopy causes a lot of reflections or cancellations, which means they have to boost output to compensate. I've not designed a car stereo however, so I'm sure they've got their reasons why they bumped up the top-end.

(Note on treble: as you age your hearing in the higher range can diminish, which may make you want more treble to compensate. This is completely normal so take the top-end feedback with a grain of salt.)

Fix that extreme low-end: I'm not sure if there are two subs instead of one, but a -3bd of 44hz is pretty high for what the car has. Maybe a shelf biquad with a high Q to raise it a few db?

Final Thoughts

This is absolutely an excellent system. The level of detail in it is top-notch for a car stereo and with a little bit of adjustment you'll get a ton of enjoyment. I'd say this is designed more for extended listening without fatigue instead of thumping along. The end result is you'll find yourself listening to music longer without needing to turn it down, and will notice things that had been missing. It will capture your interest in a way most car stereos do not, akin to sitting in a dedicated listening room with a dialed-in system.

A lot of mass-market car stereos will hit the bass on a track hard. They'll get your blood going, but you also end up turning it down after a bit - there's distortion, ringing, or a "boom" that fatigues you. The Lucid does not suffer from this at all. Instead, it feels like a system that could use a few improvements, but gets so close to the mark that I really can't fault it, which says a lot.

I'm really surprised to get a stereo this good on the first car from a new carmaker. Surreal sound indeed!
I can hear the drop between 100-200 HZ. Tesla Models S sounds better.I own both Tesla S and Lucid Touring Lucid lacks deep bass. I paid for dolby Atos upgrade. I am disappointed with the sound system in Lucid
 
I can hear the drop between 100-200 HZ. Tesla Models S sounds better.I own both Tesla S and Lucid Touring Lucid lacks deep bass. I paid for dolby Atos upgrade. I am disappointed with the sound system in Lucid
What are you using as your source for music?
 
I can hear the drop between 100-200 HZ. Tesla Models S sounds better.I own both Tesla S and Lucid Touring Lucid lacks deep bass. I paid for dolby Atos upgrade. I am disappointed with the sound system in Lucid
Also, how's the mids and highs compare to the Model S?
 
I can hear the drop between 100-200 HZ. Tesla Models S sounds better.I own both Tesla S and Lucid Touring Lucid lacks deep bass. I paid for dolby Atos upgrade. I am disappointed with the sound system in Lucid
One thing I love about the Lucid sound system is that I can actually listen to (and hear) music while driving on the highway. Even with the windows down! I could never do that with my Model S as there is so much road noise.

That said, have you tried playing around with it? Do you have Tidal Hi-Fi set up? There is a difference depending on the source.
 
Well, I really good sound system should faithfully reproduce the source material. I find that my Lucid just doesn't consistently sound good.

Ratings for our cars are 1-Lincoln, 2-Mercedes and 3-Lucid. I also seem to have to turn the volume up a lot in the Lucid.

Just my impression.
 
Well, I really good sound system should faithfully reproduce the source material. I find that my Lucid just doesn't consistently sound good.

Ratings for our cars are 1-Lincoln, 2-Mercedes and 3-Lucid. I also seem to have to turn the volume up a lot in the Lucid.

Just my impression.
Interestingly, I find the Mercedes system, while good, doesn’t faithfully reproduce high quality source material. The Lucid does.

🤷‍♂️
 
Interestingly, I find the Mercedes system, while good, doesn’t faithfully reproduce high quality source material. The Lucid does.

🤷‍♂️
Did my side by side with my klipsch speakers, sennheisers, and the Lucid. Love the sound system in the Lucid and definitely can call it audiophile
 
Well, I really good sound system should faithfully reproduce the source material. I find that my Lucid just doesn't consistently sound good.

Ratings for our cars are 1-Lincoln, 2-Mercedes and 3-Lucid. I also seem to have to turn the volume up a lot in the Lucid.

Just my impression.
You have to turn the volume up on the Lucid because it’s calibrated to professional recording studio standard (I’m suspecting this may have been a requirement with Dolby Licensing rules, or maybe Lucid just made the choice to do it that way), it’s not a sign of inferiority or being underpowered. Mercedes and Lincoln are not calibrated to the same standard, though they are good sound systems.
 
This is fun reading these posts.
One of the disappointments of a tweaked-audio high-fidelity system is finding some of your favorite tunes sound WORSE. Often that's the source (rap "music" bass) or something downstream (compression by broadcast engineers) Listening to 60's mono pop on AM radio is peak experience for we boomers because the recording/playback was "tuned" for listening in noisy environments and crappy speakers. Listen to that same source on a "good" system and ??? Could be bad...could be you never really heard what is there. Re-mastered classics happen because people's desktop fold-out portable "stereos" became "systems" when we got jobs, and we started to put the speakers up to ear level and pull them out into the room for sound-staging. You don't want to listen to AM radio on the home system, but CCR sounds fantastic cranked-up, windows open, flying down the highway in the Dodge Dart.

I wish I had some cred here but I'm 70something and went to a lot of concerts (I have a Woodstock story)...I haven't had good ears for a long long time. Let me just say that the Lucid system is the best car audio I have ever heard ... truly high-fidelity. When you have good source material it is superb. When you have so-so source material it will reveal...and sometimes too much. When the bass sounds weak = that's what the engineer wanted. When it sounds loud, muddy and one-note in the Lucid = it's engineering at the source...maybe it was meant to be heard at a rave. This is the curse of the audiophile. We begin to "solve the problem" when we don't dissolve into the music. "huh...is that supposed to be muddy or do I need corner tube traps ?" "Why is the sound stage so bunched-up in the middle?"

There is a reason...maybe you did not notice the bass is way cleaner and drops into the mix; lets other frequencies bloom through. You may not notice, if you have never heard a really well- tweaked system, that bass has more than one frequency. Like Bose doesn't know this...Bose has only one bass frequency. That is their trademark frequency. People think it's good. They can enjoy that, I will leave the room. Had a Bose system in the R129 ... terrible. Why Mercedes ? Why?
Bass is one of the frequency spectrums I can still hear, so I am particularly sensitive to boomy, muddy, over driven and single note bass in music where that was not the intent. Lucid obviously agrees.

I think it's great that people want to put an equalizer in the stream. Let them play with it for a while...if they really listen they will find everything sounds better with less. I am happy to finally have a high-end audio system and listening room that I have no urge to fuss with. And, I can drive it around.
I'm finally not listening to the room. ... purely enjoying the music and marveling at the engineering behind it. Look at the posts here: folk aren't saying, "Listen to the booom booom boom on "Kill The Police"... I see them listing their favorite MUSIC.

We are sharing our music. joy to be among you. someone lists a song and It's like they just pushed "play" in my head.


(car audio references: Dynaudio Dolby Pro in Volvo, Mark Levinson in Lexus, Bang & Olufsen in Mercedes)

RE volume issue. I was having trouble getting enough volume, then fooling with the audio settings I noticed a "master volume" slider. It was only half way up. Adjusting that gave me more range on the steering wheel volume knob.
 
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  • The treble is a bit bright and could cause a bit of fatigue on long sessions.
    • That peak at 8khz is pretty noticeable, and some tracks might end up harsh.
    • The treble ends abruptly at ~16khz for some reason.
LOL ... my treble rolls off sharply around 8khz in the right ear... long gone in both ears at 16khz.

I just now read your review... should try to read the whole thread from the beginning before I post...(I am humbled). I tend to read from last to first.
Thank you @copper and @borski for an outstanding review worthy of the Lucid audio system.
 
I can hear the drop between 100-200 HZ. Tesla Models S sounds better.I own both Tesla S and Lucid Touring Lucid lacks deep bass. I paid for dolby Atos upgrade. I am disappointed with the sound system in Lucid

Interesting. We own a Lucid Dream Edition and a Tesla Model S Plaid (our second Model S). To me the Tesla can sound more "punchy", but the Lucid sounds more balanced and accurate. Tesla bass has more kick, but it sounds artificial when compared to Lucid's distortion-free bass. And, when listening to Atmos-encoded music on Tidal HiFi, the Lucid soundstage blows the Tesla away.

As bunnylebowski has observed, the Lucid's great dynamic range and Atmos encoding mean you have to set the volume level higher in the Lucid to get the same perceived volume as in the Tesla, but it's a cleaner, more balanced, and more nuanced output than in our Tesla.
 
Interesting. We own a Lucid Dream Edition and a Tesla Model S Plaid (our second Model S). To me the Tesla can sound more "punchy", but the Lucid sounds more balanced and accurate. Tesla bass has more kick, but it sounds artificial when compared to Lucid's distortion-free bass. And, when listening to Atmos-encoded music on Tidal HiFi, the Lucid soundstage blows the Tesla away.

As bunnylebowski has observed, the Lucid's great dynamic range and Atmos encoding mean you have to set the volume level higher in the Lucid to get the same perceived volume as in the Tesla, but it's a cleaner, more balanced, and more nuanced output than in our Tesla.
I was sitting in the car in the freezing garage for hours, listening to Christmas classics jazz on the local public FM while I read the owners manual. Soon I forgot all about learning the menus and controls and fell into the music. To get the very best sound stage and fatigue-less experience, I ended up turning the volume DOWN.

this is an exceptionally good system in an exceptionally good room. I am shaking just thinking about Miles Davis' horn emerging from the silence he creates. really good audio system to make the silence as thrilling as the note.
 
I am still a bit perplexed about some of the searing criticisms of the surreal sound. Yesterday I listened to Fleetwood Mac Greatest hits in Atmos on my drive to work and on my drive home. When I got home, I was so excited about it I asked my wife to come sit in the car with me to have her experience it. Fleetwood Mac is not even a favorite band, although I do like them.
We were both laughing because some of the tracks were just so outstanding . I have a had a few cars with good systems , but I have never ever just gone into my vehicle for the sole purpose of listening to music, until now.
Not everything blows you away with this system but if the material is from the proper source, nothing touches it ( in my experience) .
 
Average consumers think of more bass= better system. That's why headphones like Beats got popular even though it's overpriced for it's overall sound quality.

It also requires time with proper quality audio gear or live music to train one's ears to better pick up small details.

Most importantly, it's sound and music preference. Rock music would sound dead if there's little bass. Orchestra and classicals would benefit more from better tuned mids and highs.

I'm also wondering if Lucid needs burn in period for its speakers?
 
This is fun reading these posts.
One of the disappointments of a tweaked-audio high-fidelity system is finding some of your favorite tunes sound WORSE. Often that's the source (rap "music" bass) or something downstream (compression by broadcast engineers) Listening to 60's mono pop on AM radio is peak experience for we boomers because the recording/playback was "tuned" for listening in noisy environments and crappy speakers. Listen to that same source on a "good" system and ??? Could be bad...could be you never really heard what is there. Re-mastered classics happen because people's desktop fold-out portable "stereos" became "systems" when we got jobs, and we started to put the speakers up to ear level and pull them out into the room for sound-staging. You don't want to listen to AM radio on the home system, but CCR sounds fantastic cranked-up, windows open, flying down the highway in the Dodge Dart.

I wish I had some cred here but I'm 70something and went to a lot of concerts (I have a Woodstock story)...I haven't had good ears for a long long time. Let me just say that the Lucid system is the best car audio I have ever heard ... truly high-fidelity. When you have good source material it is superb. When you have so-so source material it will reveal...and sometimes too much. When the bass sounds weak = that's what the engineer wanted. When it sounds loud, muddy and one-note in the Lucid = it's engineering at the source...maybe it was meant to be heard at a rave. This is the curse of the audiophile. We begin to "solve the problem" when we don't dissolve into the music. "huh...is that supposed to be muddy or do I need corner tube traps ?" "Why is the sound stage so bunched-up in the middle?"

There is a reason...maybe you did not notice the bass is way cleaner and drops into the mix; lets other frequencies bloom through. You may not notice, if you have never heard a really well- tweaked system, that bass has more than one frequency. Like Bose doesn't know this...Bose has only one bass frequency. That is their trademark frequency. People think it's good. They can enjoy that, I will leave the room. Had a Bose system in the R129 ... terrible. Why Mercedes ? Why?
Bass is one of the frequency spectrums I can still hear, so I am particularly sensitive to boomy, muddy, over driven and single note bass in music where that was not the intent. Lucid obviously agrees.

I think it's great that people want to put an equalizer in the stream. Let them play with it for a while...if they really listen they will find everything sounds better with less. I am happy to finally have a high-end audio system and listening room that I have no urge to fuss with. And, I can drive it around.
I'm finally not listening to the room. ... purely enjoying the music and marveling at the engineering behind it. Look at the posts here: folk aren't saying, "Listen to the booom booom boom on "Kill The Police"... I see them listing their favorite MUSIC.

We are sharing our music. joy to be among you. someone lists a song and It's like they just pushed "play" in my head.


(car audio references: Dynaudio Dolby Pro in Volvo, Mark Levinson in Lexus, Bang & Olufsen in Mercedes)

RE volume issue. I was having trouble getting enough volume, then fooling with the audio settings I noticed a "master volume" slider. It was only half way up. Adjusting that gave me more range on the steering wheel volume knob.
Yeah, you’re so on the money about Bose bass. And then they throw things out of phase too to make sound like fake surround sound which can admittedly fill the room, at the expense of accuracy!

How it worked in audio engineering for music is you wanted to mix to the most common denominator, so what you’d do is you’d get the mix perfect on your monitors of choice, often Meyer HD1 or Genelecs, and then you’d play them mix back through Yamaha NS10s or lower end Tannoy speakers to replicate a lower quality home system/car. You’d tweak it until you could hear things well on the inferior speakers, the idea being that if it sounded good on those it would sound good on anything, the downside being is it might no longer sound amazing on the pro system, but it was a compromise you’d live with because you wanted everyone to hear the vocals. To add to the issue, is that many things were recorded/mixed/mastered at 16bit/44.1khz (CD quality), and now labels and artists are taking that source material and remastering for 24bit/96khz or higher, and 24 bit gives you 8 more bits of dynamic range meaning you can make things more subtle and quieter and you can now hear quieter things you couldn’t hear before (the sound of the bow on a cello, subtle hall reverberation, etc), and to get that wide dynamic range you need essentially a less responsive master volume knob where one click increments might only increase the volume by 2db instead of 5-10db like many cars.

While quality perception is subjective, accuracy is much less subjective, and all I can say is that the Lucid’s system is more accurate than I’ve heard in other car systems, and reveals high quality mixes as the master works they are, and also reveals mediocre flat mixes with little dynamic range to be the cluttered audio splatter they are. As far as actual listening level, below is the picture of where the volume knob should be if you want your levels to be what they were like where the mixer was sitting when they mixed it:
 

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Average consumers think of more bass= better system. That's why headphones like Beats got popular even though it's overpriced for it's overall sound quality.

Interesting observation.

My partner and I remain at odds about what is good bass in a sound system. We have reached a compromise by which I don't touch the equalizer controls in the Tesla (in which he keeps the bass cranked up), and he doesn't touch the equalizer controls in the Lucid (which I keep flat but are overridden by Dobly Atmos, anyway).

I think a large part of this difference derives from our backgrounds. I learned to listen to music while taking piano lessons, playing oboe in a high school orchestra, and attending a lot of live classical concerts in college during which time I chased every new piece of exotic audio gear and speaker that came on the market. (For example, I was the first in my dorm to get electrostatic speakers.)

My partner grew up in Russia-controlled Poland and learned to listen to music by attending rock concerts and listening to mostly-pirated sources on cheap home or car gear. The coolest guy among his friends was always the one who could crank the most bass out of a crappy system -- which really meant producing the most distortion at the loudest volume.

To this day, what I view as a clean, nuanced, and powerful bass line properly blended into the tonal wall he views as a weak and dull bass line.
 
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