Lucid Air gets MAJOR price decreases...

[AirDoll]

I somehow to think Hertz employees hate EV.

Me: I like to drive an EV.
Hertz: Why? Hybrid is just as good with more winter range.
Me: But I just want an EV and what do you have garage?
Hertz: We got all kinds, but they are just bad deal bc expensive to maintain. People come to SF all hate EVs, where are you from?
Me: Texas and I drive EV back home.
Hertz: What for?! Gas is so cheap in Texas.
Me: … Cheaper than sunlight?
Hertz: …

Should have gone with Enterprise, they own some Lucids!

 

[xponents]

Should have gone with Enterprise, they own some Lucids!

I do wonder, what category are those in? (eg: luxury full size sedan, ev, etc)

 

[Tesla2.0]

I was wondering why Hertz discourage people renting EVs. It’s probably bc Electrify America makes bad experience here. I went to 3350 Mission St Safeway parking lot for Electrify America. 3 out of 4 dispensers were down… Maybe bc too many EVs in SF.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I was wondering why Hertz discourage people renting EVs. It’s probably bc Electrify America makes bad experience here. I went to 3350 Mission St Safeway parking lot for Electrify America. 3 out of 4 dispensers were down… Maybe bc too many EVs in SF.

i met a guy recently who rented an EV from Hertz in California. But he returned it. He liked how it drove but couldn't find any place to charge it. That is the big problem. When one is on a trip, and renting a car, one rarely has access to overnight charging so fast charging sites becomes essential and we are still way, way short of those.

 

[Lucken]

i met a guy recently who rented an EV from Hertz in California. But he returned it. He liked how it drove but couldn't find any place to charge it. That is the big problem. When one is on a trip, and renting a car, one rarely has access to overnight charging so fast charging sites becomes essential and we are still way, way short of those.

Truth be told, if you're on a trip it might be smarter to rent a Tesla if you're determined to go with an EV.

 

[Haggy]

I was wondering why Hertz discourage people renting EVs. It’s probably bc Electrify America makes bad experience here. I went to 3350 Mission St Safeway parking lot for Electrify America. 3 out of 4 dispensers were down… Maybe bc too many EVs in SF.

It's because of price drops like this. Rental companies need to look at total cost of ownership, which includes the purchase price, any maintenance, etc. And they have to estimate a residual value based on expected depreciation for a car that is likely to be sold after two years with mileage north 60,0000. If new car prices drop substantially, they take a bath on it because it lowers residual values.

Tesla was far worse for them, not to mention the effects on residual value for all owners. I'm talking about the effect specifically and am not claiming that it's a bad business decision or that companies shouldn't be lowering prices. It's far more complicated than that and supply and demand dictate a lot more.

As far as renting, the problem I have is "...or similar car." If you plan a trip based on booking hotel rooms near Tesla chargers for "Model 3 or similar..." or go by CCS for another car, and you aren't familiar with charging or real world distance expectations, it can be a mess.

 

[Haggy]

Depends who you're talking about. Autopilot is free,

The free autopilot leaves out a lot. Unlike Lucid, if you change lanes you need to manually reengage it. Too much pressure on the wheel turns it off. And it won't read speed limit signs. It caps you at 5mph above what it thinks the speed limit is. So if you are driving in Utah and the speed limit is 80 but the car thinks that it's 55, you either override the speed the entire time with the accelerator pedal, turn off Autosteer or drive 60 mph. They call it Autopilot but if that had been the only version I had ever tried, I'd figure that if they can't even get that right, what hope is there for FSD? The actual paid version of Enhanced Autopilot is far better. So is the original "free" Autopilot with first generation hardware, which still does some things better than Lucid.

The big question is are the cuts in conjunction with the lease deals they have had in the past at almost 0%?

Lucid makes it hard to tell because the terms don't state the money factor or residual value for the lease. But I did notice that a loan is down to 2.99%. When I got mine, it was $11k more expensive and with 4.99%. It was after what had seemed like a big price drop, but the earlier higher price came with a very low promotional interest rate. When I plugged everything into a spreadsheet, the price drop back then was effectively marginal. Getting a car from inventory with DD pro and Surreal Sound pro were the actual price drops.

This time around, it's a significant drop. Last time, it looked bigger than it was for the GT, but the Pure and other versions had effectively bigger cost drops.

Also, the free charging is gone, the credit for a home charger is there, maintenance is there, and on balance I'd call this a more significant effective drop in acquisition cost. Plus, the hit on depreciation that earlier buyers got isn't going to be there.

 

[RM-S8]

it was WAY too overpriced and nobody was buying it.

Most of the times, you get what you paid for. Especially with the Sapphire.
Comparing with some other super/hyper cars and their performance, the Sapphire is an absolute steal.

 

[borski]

We test drove a Ioniq 5 and KIA EV6, they make a strong case for those who don't wany a Model 3/Y. Interiors could be better, too much plastic ( comparing to a Lucid), but at that price point not bad at all. I would buy one of those over a Tesla, I liked the 360 camera, cross detect, blind spot cameras and having some buttons. Aren't Tesla's getting boring? See them everywhere.

Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 are probably my favorite mid-tier EVs.

Well, as stated before, Lucids technology is far too expensive as of now to be used in a mainstream brand. There is like a 0.01 percent chance it happens though, as we saw a Gravity testing in south korea(although that was probably related to autonomous driving).

Yeah, but don’t underestimate what the PIF might be willing to fund for the PR. If they’re serious about being the new center of green, and the new center of automotive, investing a lot into that may make sense.

I was wondering why Hertz discourage people renting EVs. It’s probably bc Electrify America makes bad experience here. I went to 3350 Mission St Safeway parking lot for Electrify America. 3 out of 4 dispensers were down… Maybe bc too many EVs in SF.

Nah - it’s two reasons:

1) Hertz staff are not educated about EVs, at all. Most don’t know how to charge one, or if it even came with a cable. I once asked if they had a spare USB cable, and the lady got her manager to come out and show me where, in the car, the charging cable was, lol. They simply don’t know how or where to charge an EV, because Hertz has done a terrible job of training them on it. There is a dedicated small crew of people that handle the EVs, because nobody else knows how to.

2) Price drops; Hertz makes money by renting and by selling cars. When MSRPs tank, residual values tank, and Hertz loses tons of money as they can’t resell it as high.

i met a guy recently who rented an EV from Hertz in California. But he returned it. He liked how it drove but couldn't find any place to charge it. That is the big problem. When one is on a trip, and renting a car, one rarely has access to overnight charging so fast charging sites becomes essential and we are still way, way short of those.

Yeah, the main issue is that Hertz can’t help here; they simply don’t know.

 

[no gas]

Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 are probably my favorite mid-tier EVs.


Yeah, but don’t underestimate what the PIF might be willing to fund for the PR. If they’re serious about being the new center of green, and the new center of automotive, investing a lot into that may make sense.


Nah - it’s two reasons:

1) Hertz staff are not educated about EVs, at all. Most don’t know how to charge one, or if it even came with a cable. I once asked if they had a spare USB cable, and the lady got her manager to come out and show me where, in the car, the charging cable was, lol. They simply don’t know how or where to charge an EV, because Hertz has done a terrible job of training them on it. There is a dedicated small crew of people that handle the EVs, because nobody else knows how to.

2) Price drops; Hertz makes money by renting and by selling cars. When MSRPs tank, residual values tank, and Hertz loses tons of money as they can’t resell it as high.


Yeah, the main issue is that Hertz can’t help here; they simply don’t know.

Hertz doesn’t give good instructions to the customer. That’s where the problem is. They were handing off cars with less than 50% range….newbies had to figure it out on their own.

 

[chhenr]

What's Heavier than Air? The Lucid Air's Prices, Which Just Dropped — MOTORTREND

What's Heavier than Air? The Lucid Air's Prices, Which Just Dropped

apple.news

OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE:

https://ir.lucidmotors.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lucid-air-now-starts-69900-and-comes-new-benefits-make-it-easier

View attachment 18348

You have got to be kidding me. Literally two days after we got a new car because of the price, they drop the prices but I'm very happy for the company! Cracking the 70k border is very important and I am sure sales will increase by a lot. If this is how the new prices will be, I wonder if Gravity will follow.. in that case, Lucid will take over the world. Or maybe it was to create a gap between the Gravity or this?

New to the forum and maybe a bit late to the post, and sorry if I missed this on other topics in the forum: are these price reductions expected to go overseas? I am based in Switzerland, where the base pricing for P / T / GT is currently 91k / 105k / 135k CHF, so around 100k / 115k / 148k USD.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Truth be told, if you're on a trip it might be smarter to rent a Tesla if you're determined to go with an EV.

Or rent a phev or ICE car. In my case, these kinds of trips involve family members, multiple trips at the destination, carseats for toddlers, strollers, etc. All of these make the trip stressful. I made the decision that until there are widespread working fast chargers all over, in the few instances that I need to make such a trip, renting makes more sense (for the next few years probably a minivan). That also completely frees me from range anxiety. I can now drive like a thief and not worry. Just plug it in at night and I am all set.

 

[borski]

Or rent a phev or ICE car. In my case, these kinds of trips involve family members, multiple trips at the destination, carseats for toddlers, strollers, etc. All of these make the trip stressful. I made the decision that until there are widespread working fast chargers all over, in the few instances that I need to make such a trip, renting makes more sense (for the next few years probably a minivan). That also completely frees me from range anxiety. I can now drive like a thief and not worry. Just plug it in at night and I am all set.

It’s funny because I couldn’t disagree more. People who don’t drive EVs don’t know how to charge them, but people who do tend not to have very many issues, as they tend to plan it better, but it depends very much on where you are.

Starting in CA, I could easily drive to Montreal in an EV with no issues (@HariK did it), but it requires a little more planning. But driving the Lucid is infinitely more pleasant for everyone involved as it’s far more comfortable than whatever civic or corolla I’d rent.

 

[Bobby]

Or rent a phev or ICE car. In my case, these kinds of trips involve family members, multiple trips at the destination, carseats for toddlers, strollers, etc. All of these make the trip stressful. I made the decision that until there are widespread working fast chargers all over, in the few instances that I need to make such a trip, renting makes more sense (for the next few years probably a minivan). That also completely frees me from range anxiety. I can now drive like a thief and not worry. Just plug it in at night and I am all set.

Respectfully, I think your opinions are based on the fact that your EV has significantly less range than a Lucid.

 

[xponents]

but it depends very much on where you are.

Correct. However, right now, since some new EV owners/gas owners are (incorrectly) just assuming EVs are similar to gas cars, PHEVS would be better for them. Any moderately educated EV person would know to adequately plan, and in for those people, I 100 percent agree EVs are your best option. We are going on a 500 mile road trip tomorrow, and I would like to compare our experience to what it would have been like in the Air. My prediction: the Air would have been MUCH less stressful (slightly better charging, maybe slightly better real world range). If Lucid and other car companies manage to get this range to the masses, I suspect not many people would continue to have range issues. I will be able to give you a concrete answer by tomorrow on whether PHEVs or 350-ish real world range EVs are a better and less stressful option. Although I admit comparing the Air would be a better comparison, it must be recognized that this level of range is not available to the masses as of now.

Do note that this mostly only applies to the east coast (and probably the west coast too). I admit the infrastructure in the central US is not up to par, especially for shorter range EVs like mine.

(PS: Sorry if this sounded like a shredded word salad, just trying to articulate my thoughts)

 

[Steveinarizona]

Respectfully, I think your opinions are based on the fact that your EV has significantly less range than a Lucid.

No. I made this decision when I was still waiting for a Pure and was on the waiting list. Last Thanksgiving I did a trip to Las Vegas. Drove from Scottsdale to an AirbNb. Unloaded and drove to the airport to get my daughter, son-in-law and two grandkids and bring them back to the AirBNB. Then multiple trips back and forth to my Niece's house in Summerlin. Then reverse when we were leaving. The kids are young and need car seats. I would have had to find charger stations and that would also have eaten into my family time. I had a minivan rental.

We are all different. My wife doesn't like to travel so this kind of family event is the only long distance travel we do now. Others, many on this forum, do lots of intercity travel and I can see how the range difference is important.

If you look around this forum, you will see that when folks have complained that the range doesn't come close to the official range, I have come to the defense of Lucid pointing out, repeatedly, that while it may not reach its EPA range figures, it still gets much more range than the competition.

I was responding to a comment that it might make sense to rent a Tesla for trip and merely said that for me, I would rent an ICE vehicle for the trip.

So this is a decision that I made and it was personal to me. Eventually, as the fast charger network is built out that decision could change.

BTW, the only reason I have a Genesis instead of a Lucid is that it took Lucid so long to even release the specs on the RWD Pure that I gave up and grabbed the Genesis when it popped up in my city. I was willing to continue waiting so long as I knew what degree of decontenting would occur on the Pure.

 

[HariK]

No. I made this decision when I was still waiting for a Pure and was on the waiting list. Last Thanksgiving I did a trip to Las Vegas. Drove from Scottsdale to an AirbNb. Unloaded and drove to the airport to get my daughter, son-in-law and two grandkids and bring them back to the AirBNB. Then multiple trips back and forth to my Niece's house in Summerlin. Then reverse when we were leaving. The kids are young and need car seats. I would have had to find charger stations and that would also have eaten into my family time. I had a minivan rental.

We are all different. My wife doesn't like to travel so this kind of family event is the only long distance travel we do now. Others, many on this forum, do lots of intercity travel and I can see how the range difference is important.

If you look around this forum, you will see that when folks have complained that the range doesn't come close to the official range, I have come to the defense of Lucid pointing out, repeatedly, that while it may not reach its EPA range figures, it still gets much more range than the competition.

I was responding to a comment that it might make sense to rent a Tesla for trip and merely said that for me, I would rent an ICE vehicle for the trip.

So this is a decision that I made and it was personal to me. Eventually, as the fast charger network is built out that decision could change.

BTW, the only reason I have a Genesis instead of a Lucid is that it took Lucid so long to even release the specs on the RWD Pure that I gave up and grabbed the Genesis when it popped up in my city. I was willing to continue waiting so long as I knew what degree of decontenting would occur on the Pure.

I can tell you that I too have ioniq 5 RWD Limited with EPA range 300+ miles. My wife was able to drive from Fremont to Kettleman City, charge to 80% and then had enough charge to drive it to Calabasas, CA and Pasadena, CA at 65 to 70mph. Total about 400 miles. I did the trip to Montreal as @borski mentioned in Air Pure AWD driving 3hrs or so at a time with no problem charging and I am pretty sure that our ioniq 5 could also do it. Unless you really do it you think it cannot be done. Perhaps your Genesis is AWD and has less range. Ioniq 5 RWD is almost as efficient at Lucid Air Pure on the highway and more efficient than Lucid Air Pure on surface streets at low speed. You probably know that the eGMP platform can charge faster than Lucid right now. That said if you want to drive as long as possible without stopping and stop for as less time as possible and drive as fast as possible I guess, you will need ICE vehicle. I absolutely feel like stopping after 3hrs and for sure my lunch stop is min 45min and coffee break is min 15 min. On a super long distance trip I like to drive no more than 600 miles a day including some sight seeing. So, I have no issue driving both my EVs.

 

[borski]

I can tell you that I too have ioniq 5 RWD Limited with EPA range 300+ miles. My wife was able to drive from Fremont to Kettleman City, charge to 80% and then had enough charge to drive it to Calabasas, CA and Pasadena, CA at 65 to 70mph. Total about 400 miles. I did the trip to Montreal as @borski mentioned in Air Pure AWD driving 3hrs or so at a time with no problem charging and I am pretty sure that our ioniq 5 could also do it. Unless you really do it you think it cannot be done. Perhaps your Genesis is AWD and has less range. Ioniq 5 RWD is almost as efficient at Lucid Air Pure on the highway and more efficient than Lucid Air Pure on surface streets at low speed. You probably know that the eGMP platform can charge faster than Lucid right now. That said if you want to drive as long as possible without stopping and stop for as less time as possible and drive as fast as possible I guess, you will need ICE vehicle. I absolutely feel like stopping after 3hrs and for sure my lunch stop is min 45min and coffee break is min 15 min. On a super long distance trip I like to drive no more than 600 miles a day including some sight seeing. So, I have no issue driving both my EVs.

Also, people constantly make the mistake of trying to charge fully, but the nice thing with something like the Lucid is a 10-15 min charging break is all you need for a few hours and another station. You don’t have to get to 80% or 100% with every single charge.

 

[kort6776]

It’s funny because I couldn’t disagree more. People who don’t drive EVs don’t know how to charge them, but people who do tend not to have very many issues, as they tend to plan it better, but it depends very much on where you are.

Starting in CA, I could easily drive to Montreal in an EV with no issues (@HariK did it), but it requires a little more planning. But driving the Lucid is infinitely more pleasant for everyone involved as it’s far more comfortable than whatever civic or corolla I’d rent.

the issues are when in more remote places, where there aren't many charging options, you encounter a charger that you planned at charging at and it is either inoperative, operating at a throttled level, or just overcrowded your trip will be impacted.

 

[borski]

the issues are when in more remote places, where there aren't many charging options, you encounter a charger that you planned at charging at and it is either inoperative, operating at a throttled level, or just overcrowded your trip will be impacted.

I hear what you’re saying. However, I have yet to have anyone show me a trip plan that I couldn’t easily modify for more flexibility and better charging, even in “remote” places.

Yes, the middle of a country is a bit of a charging desert - that is changing, but slowly. If you’re doing a cross-country road trip, you can plan on charging at hotels or RV parks as well.

So I guess what I’m saying is: you’re not wrong, but I would love to see an example of a road trip you want to take in which I can’t easily modify it to not have to worry about charging. That’s all I’m saying.