Lucid Air for daily use as home battery?

[Tâm]

I still want to go green though if financially reasonable...

We don't know how much to install a Lucid V2H kit, but some Ford customers pay quite a lot for labor and electrical upgrades for a total cost of $18,000:

It’ll Cost Us $18K to Power a House With Our Ford F-150 Lightning

The trials and tribulations of getting Ford’s Charge Station Pro bidirectional home charger to provide backup power.

www.motortrend.com

It sounds like an expensive hobby, not financially feasible.

 

[Tâm]

Great info… thanks.
so I am guessing the V2H kit is not available anytime soon?

We need a leaker from Lucid or otherwise, your guess is just as good as mine.

 

[Rotterdammer]

We have had a few situations of our Nissan Leaf running low away from home and it would have been very handy to use the Lucid as a “tanker” (V2V)

 

[hydbob]

Your guess is just as good as mine because we need to hear the plan from Lucid.

People have been installing V2H from Ford, so we can now see how it works.

Ford requires 3 additional components:

1) Inverter
2) Grid Disconnect
3) "Dark Battery" instantaneously kicks in when your house goes dark while waiting for the car to supply the power (if your car is unplugged, it's time to plug it in. If it has been plugged in, it takes time to get the power to your home, not microseconds like the "dark battery."

The Ford equipment is about $5,000 or less, but the labor might add up to a total cost of over $15,000 for a complex home (old home, needs panel upgrades...)

Currently, the V2H, V2G are not standardized, so you must pay again each time you get a different car brand.

You already have an inverter for your solar. You will need another one from Lucid. You already have a Grid Disconnect from your solar, but again you might need another one from Lucid.

Once Lucid sells you the V2H kit, it should work with your current solar fine with additional installation costs.

In the meantime, you can't get your car to do bidirectional without the Lucid V2H kit.

I thought that even though they had all thr hardware, it still wasn't up and operational yet due to Red tape? @thecodingart ??

 

[Rotterdammer]

I heard the same excuse: “not my fault”
But it was definitely part of their advertising

 

[Adnillien]

You already have an inverter for your solar. You will need another one from Lucid. You already have a Grid Disconnect from your solar, but again you might need another one from Lucid.

my understanding is that you do not need an inverter with the Lucid bidirectional since it is taking AC out of the Wonderbox. Ford is using a DC connection to the battery for V2H and so the Ford Solution does need an inverter.

 

[Rotterdammer]

It does make a case for standardization in the industry

 

[Dhimiter]

my understanding is that you do not need an inverter with the Lucid bidirectional since it is taking AC out of the Wonderbox. Ford is using a DC connection to the battery for V2H and so the Ford Solution does need an inverter.

Do we know this for sure? Technically speaking, every EV must have an AC to DC inverter if you’re ever going to charge from a wall outlet, but can they do the reverse as well without an external DC to AC inverter?

Eric Bach, feel free to weigh in, lol.

 

[Tâm]

I thought that even though they had all thr hardware, it still wasn't up and operational yet due to Red tape? @thecodingart ??

I don't think the delays come from the government or utility companies for the sales of bidirectional.

Hyundai/Kia has been selling V2L for the past 2 years (an example of use: run your extension cord to run your home window Air Conditioner). Hummers, Rivian can do V2V. Ford can even do V2H...

I think the reason Ford can do quickly is because it passes the bucks to Sunrun. All the V2H components have Ford labels but they are actually from the expert Sunrun.

Sunrun has all the hardware and software to integrate solar and batteries into homes for years. Ford just needs to provide the car with the battery, Sunrun just slaps the Ford labels on the V2H kit.

 

[Adnillien]

Do we know this for sure? Technically speaking, every EV must have an AC to DC inverter if you’re ever going to charge from a wall outlet, but can they do the reverse as well without an external DC to AC inverter?

Eric Bach, feel free to weigh in, lol.

The Lucid connected home charger uses the J1772 plug which does not have a DC connection.

 

[Rotterdammer]

Like everything else: initially it’s expensive and tapers off until it’s old hat.
The argument that it’s too expensive evaporates once it saves your A$$ one day

 

[Bill55]

The Lucid connected home charger uses the J1772 plug which does not have a DC connection.

The Air should be able to output 19.2kW, but there is no work around to have the car export power without Lucid software support.

 

[Tâm]

The Lucid connected home charger uses the J1772 plug which does not have a DC connection.

That makes sense. Hyundai/Kia has been doing V2L for the past 2 years and owners don't have to buy an inverter (220V in Europe and 120v in North America).

 

[Dhimiter]

The Lucid connected home charger uses the J1772 plug which does not have a DC connection.

yes, but the electric motors need DC power to run. So that AC current provided by the Lucid connector or whatever other wall charger one is using needs to be converted to DC current, which the Wunderbox handles. So, we know for sure that AC to DC inversion is handled by the car. To get AC current back out of the car battery, there would have to be a DC to AC inverter (possibly also a Wunderbox capability).

 

[Dhimiter]

yes, but the electric motors need DC power to run. So that AC current provided by the Lucid connector or whatever other wall charger one is using needs to be converted to DC current, which the Wunderbox handles. So, we know for sure that AC to DC inversion is handled by the car. To get AC current back out of the car battery, there would have to be a DC to AC inverter (possibly also a Wunderbox capability).

Misspoke, motors need AC power to run. The battery only delivers DC current. So that’s the purpose of the inverter. Question is can it also be used to provide AC current out of the battery to another source (your home) or is it just for the motor.

 

[noobzilla]

We don't know how much to install a Lucid V2H kit, but some Ford customers pay quite a lot for labor and electrical upgrades for a total cost of $18,000:

It’ll Cost Us $18K to Power a House With Our Ford F-150 Lightning

The trials and tribulations of getting Ford’s Charge Station Pro bidirectional home charger to provide backup power.

www.motortrend.com

It sounds like an expensive hobby, not financially feasible.

I asked one of the electricians I was getting charger quotes from and from what I remember it is expensive and that my utility doesn't allow that kind of technology yet. Fortunately I live close by a big substation and haven't gotten a black out yet even during windy storms while a lot of other neighborhoods lost power. But back to your point, yup too expensive for now

 

[Tâm]

my understanding is that you do not need an inverter with the Lucid bidirectional since it is taking AC out of the Wonderbox. Ford is using a DC connection to the battery for V2H and so the Ford Solution does need an inverter.

Very good point! I agree.

That means less equipment to buy and less cost. The wall will look nicer without the inverter. Less complexity and quicker time to bring the V2H kit to the market.

 

[hydbob]

I don't think the delays come from the government or utility companies for the sales of bidirectional.

Hyundai/Kia has been selling V2L for the past 2 years (an example of use: run your extension cord to run your home window Air Conditioner). Hummers, Rivian can do V2V. Ford can even do V2H...

I think the reason Ford can do quickly is because it passes the bucks to Sunrun. All the V2H components have Ford labels but they are actually from the expert Sunrun.

Sunrun has all the hardware and software to integrate solar and batteries into homes for years. Ford just needs to provide the car with the battery, Sunrun just slaps the Ford labels on the V2H kit.

V2L is not the same as V2H. There is a lot of regulation behind V2H, and it's probably utility companies worried they will be losing out on money.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Even a little back-up power would be nice. The day we moved in we lost power...everything in boxes. It was July and very hot and humid (hence the electrical storm that took out our power) . No worries I thought, we'd just put fans in the windows and play cards or scrabble or read...no worries....oops. How can we be so dumb? I just needed a little power, not for cooking or cooling, just some light and a fan.

Here's a story: a few days later I was at Sears hardware buying batteries for the electric torches (flashlights for amerikans -- who don't know what Morse code even is). I'm in line, and everyone in front of me and behind me is buying batteries too....and window screening. It took me some minutes to figure out what was happening. Where I live, everyone enters their houses through the garage...so they use Homelink or the garage door opener remote. Like me...they don't even carry a house key. But the opener has no power. They are locked out.

My neighbors broke in to their own houses.

Wow. I had not thought of that. Need to check if mine has a battery backup. I have a pushbutton front door lock ready to install but it has been too hot to stand by the front door with it open for a half hour while I replace the keyed lock.

 

[OldAg]

In the Wunderbox tech talk it very clearly states that the box has a 19.2 kw “bi directional” AC to DC converter. The inverter on each motor has no capability to produce AC power except to drive the motor. The Lucid wall charger does not convert any voltages, it simply provides an 80 amp electrical interface to a 240 volt, 100 amp breaker. To make it function as a power supplier to your home there is additional equipment required to isolate your home from the grid, this is common in generator installations. Of course, Lucid has to have the software operable to tell it to supply power instead of recieve power. If it can charge a vehicle it already has the software to supply power using the Wnderbox.