Lease signing date

[sealthy]

Hello! New here and new to leasing. This is the first time I'm leasing a car. I have a custom order for Pure RWD and the sales rep is asking me to sign a lease contract that's dated 3 days ago and I don't even have a delivery date estimate. I said that I will not sign any lease contracts that do not have a contingency on the vehicle's delivery.

How do people here who went with the lease option go about this? It sounds absurd to me that I'll be liable for a lease when I don't have the car yet, even if they're promising they'll change it later, the contract itself says that what's not written in the contract is not valid.

 

[Andretex]

I had to do the same. Sign documents with a delivery date that did not match. Took several weeks. I even had to send the money a week before I got the car. But you know what, it all worked perfect. They changed the lease document to match the actual delivery date later.

It all works out but it is not perfect and a bit stressful. Just do it, you wont regret it.

I love the car!

If you need a referral to save $750 it is in our profiles in this forum just look for it. Good luck!

 

[sealthy]

Thanks! But, I'm absolutely not paying for the car before I see it. I was thinking about signing it if they add the contingency, but at this point I'm not even sure I'll agree to that anymore.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

I signed B of A finance docs a week before actual delivery. The car was physically at the delivery center and we were working on scheduling a date for delivery direct to my house. The payments had to clear before transporting the vehicle. That was reasonable. Signing a lease commitment before you know the delivery date is absurd.

 

[Andretex]

Thanks! But, I'm absolutely not paying for the car before I see it. I was thinking about signing it if they add the contingency, but at this point I'm not even sure I'll agree to that anymore.

I am a CPA and I thought the same thing. The short answer is this. If you want to sign a lease after you see the car then go buy a BMW or something. Lucid does not have dealerships. Dealerships have auto tag and title authority within the state to be able to sell you a car on the spot. Lucid is not able to do that. They use Bank of America do to the lease transaction. Only way you will buy a Lucid at this time is to sign the lease before seeing the car. I heard some people brought cashiers check to pay the downpayment at the time of delivery. So see if you can do that. And again good luck. You will not regret the purchase.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

There are two different issues. One is the reasonableness of signing for and paying for a car that has not yet been delivered, but with a clear understanding of when the delivery will take place. See my post as an example. This is indeed different from buying a car from a dealership and entering into a definitive agreement before taking delivery but it is reasonable if you know delivery is imminent. Two, is the reasonableness, or lack there of, of being asked to sign for and enter into a transaction when there is no knowledge of, or representation of, when delivery may occur. That is unreasonable.

So, no, please don’t go buy a BMW. Yes, let’s get Lucid and their financing partner to implement reasonable business practices.

 

[borski]

Thanks! But, I'm absolutely not paying for the car before I see it. I was thinking about signing it if they add the contingency, but at this point I'm not even sure I'll agree to that anymore.

They need proof of funds and an agreement. You can always still refuse delivery. You do not need to *pay* for the car ahead of time, and can bring a cashier’s check to the delivery, at least for financing. I cannot speak to leasing.

That said, if you refuse delivery, they will refund you the money either way. This forum (and the whole internet) would explode if they ever reneged on that, and it hasn’t yet, so I would assume *they* haven’t.

You’ll likely be required to sign the contract regardless.

I am a CPA and I thought the same thing. The short answer is this. If you want to sign a lease after you see the car then go buy a BMW or something. Lucid does not have dealerships. Dealerships have auto tag and title authority within the state to be able to sell you a car on the spot. Lucid is not able to do that. They use Bank of America do to the lease transaction. Only way you will buy a Lucid at this time is to sign the lease before seeing the car. I heard some people brought cashiers check to pay the downpayment at the time of delivery. So see if you can do that. And again good luck. You will not regret the purchase.

This is correct. Lucid has no choice but to do it ahead of time, since they don’t have dealer authority in any state.

There are two different issues. One is the reasonableness of signing for and paying for a car that has not yet been delivered, but with a clear understanding of when the delivery will take place. See my post as an example. This is indeed different from buying a car from a dealership and entering into a definitive agreement before taking delivery but it is reasonable if you know delivery is imminent. Two, is the reasonableness, or lack there of, of being asked to sign for and enter into a transaction when there is no knowledge of, or representation of, when delivery may occur. That is unreasonable.

So, no, please don’t go buy a BMW. Yes, let’s get Lucid and their financing partner to implement reasonable business practices.

Yes, I agree that a delivery date is required.

 

[borski]

They need proof of funds and an agreement. You can always still refuse delivery. You do not need to *pay* for the car ahead of time, and can bring a cashier’s check to the delivery, at least for financing. I cannot speak to leasing.

That said, if you refuse delivery, they will refund you the money either way. This forum (and the whole internet) would explode if they ever reneged on that, and it hasn’t yet, so I would assume *they* haven’t.

You’ll likely be required to sign the contract regardless.


This is correct. Lucid has no choice but to do it ahead of time, since they don’t have dealer authority in any state.


Yes, I agree that a delivery date is required.

For what it’s worth, I looked back at my emails. I signed the purchase agreement 12/13/21. I signed BoA finance docs 12/14/21. They mailed me DMV docs 12/17/21. I sent them back 12/20/21; they arrived to Lucid 12/21/21.

I received my car 1/19/22. I could still, at that point, have declined delivery and gotten a full refund.

 

[borski]

For what it’s worth, I looked back at my emails. I signed the purchase agreement 12/13/21. I signed BoA finance docs 12/14/21. They mailed me DMV docs 12/17/21. I sent them back 12/20/21; they arrived to Lucid 12/21/21.

I received my car 1/19/22. I could still, at that point, have declined delivery and gotten a full refund.

And here are the relevant clauses from the Purchase Agreement order terms and conditions (this is from 2021, of course):

2. Payment Terms
Payment of the total purchase price, including taxes and governmental fees, as indicated on the Final Price Sheet, is due
at the time of delivery. Please advise your delivery specialist if you will be funding your purchase via a loan or lease in order to
coordinate payment. If you present a check for any portion or all of the purchase price, Lucid may use the banking information
on your check to make a one-time electronic fund transfer from your bank account, which will be reflected on your banking statement as an Electric Fund Transfer.

(tl;dr: you can pay at time of delivery, as that is when funds are due, but Lucid may use ACH for proof if you bring a check, and Leasing / Financing requires more work ahead of time)

3. Order Process - Cancellation
Once you configure your Vehicle and submit your Configuration Summary to Lucid, $1,000.00 or the full amount of your Reservation Payment, whichever is less, will become a non-refundable Order Deposit. If you cancel your order or breach this Agreement, Lucid will retain your Order Deposit as liquidated damages to the extent permitted by law. You acknowledge that the harm caused by your cancellation or breach would be impossible or very difficult to accurately estimate and that the Order Deposit is a reasonable estimate of the anticipated or actual harm Lucid may incur. If you make any changes to your Vehicle configuration, including changing where the Vehicle is delivered, your Order Configuration will be revised to reflect any price increases or pricing adjustment since
the time of your original Configuration Summary. The revised Configuration Summary will become a part of this Agreement. You may also be charged an Order Modification Fee if you make changes to your configuration after submitting your initial Configuration Summary.

The Order Deposit will be applied to the Purchase Price on the Final Price Sheet. The Order Deposit and this Agreement are not made or entered into in anticipation of or pending any conditional sales contract. If an estimated delivery date for your Vehicle is provided, Lucid is unable to guarantee the actual delivery date.

(tl;dr: this isn’t a sales contract, conditional or otherwise, and Lucid can’t guarantee your delivery date, even if they give you an estimate. You can cancel at any time up to the completion of the transaction (which requires the funds to be transferred) and give up only your deposit. This includes rejecting the delivery.)

15. Right to Cancel
Either Lucid or you may cancel your Order if we discontinue a product, feature or option after you have placed your Order. In that event, you will receive a refund of your Order Deposit. Lucid sells directly to consumers and we may also cancel your Order if we believe, in our sole discretion, that you intend to circumvent our direct-to-consumer sales-model.

(tl;dr: if Lucid screws up and can’t sell you the car because they discontinued it, or a feature, or whatever, you get the deposit back and have the full right to cancel. If they think you’re trying to resell it as an unofficial dealer, they reserve the right to cancel your sale)

Seems all set to me. Questions?

 

[sealthy]

Seems all set to me. Questions?

Thanks, borski! That's helpful and my order agreement is very similar to this, still. But the contract that was sent to me by BofA is a different contract from the Order Agreement and it has no mentions of it in anyway. It has a start date, and that date is already in the past. It also has obligations related to the lease itself, I'd have to pay the monthly payment for that contract once it's signed, it has due dates for such payments. It also has a clause saying that anything that's not in that contract is not enforceable, including the promised "re-date" of said contract via a text message by Lucid's salesperson. If I'm going to sign a contract it has to reflect the reality that I'm willing to accept. Paying rent for a car that, as far I'm concerned, doesn't even exist yet is not something I'm willing to accept.

You might understand why I'm weary of signing such a contract before my car's delivery. When I bought my Tesla I did not have to sign or pay anything, including the loan I was taking, before the delivery date. And Tesla is also direct to consumer.

 

[borski]

Thanks, borski! That's helpful and my order agreement is very similar to this, still. But the contract that was sent to me by BofA is a different contract from the Order Agreement and it has no mentions of it in anyway. It has a start date, and that date is already in the past. It also has obligations related to the lease itself, I'd have to pay the monthly payment for that contract once it's signed, it has due dates for such payments. It also has a clause saying that anything that's not in that contract is not enforceable, including the promised "re-date" of said contract via a text message by Lucid's salesperson. If I'm going to sign a contract it has to reflect the reality that I'm willing to accept. Paying rent for a car that, as far I'm concerned, doesn't even exist yet is not something I'm willing to accept.

You might understand why I'm weary of signing such a contract before my car's delivery. When I bought my Tesla I did not have to sign or pay anything, including the loan I was taking, before the delivery date. And Tesla is also direct to consumer.

Interesting! I financed, so that was a bit different.

Do you mind posting the contract, redacted?

(And, while Tesla is d2c, they’ve also successfully lobbied nearly every state for exceptions. Lucid hasn’t yet)

 

[borski]

Fwiw: The only time you're not able to cancel is when the deal has been funded by the bank. If you haven't taken “delivery” of the vehicle, then the vehicle isn’t officially yours. Once the vehicle drives off the curb, then it's yours. The bank needs to own something; if it’s a lease, they technically own the car as collateral. If it’s a finance/loan, they need to know the collateral exists and can be repossessed. If the collateral doesn’t exist, they won’t fund the loan.

What some customers don't know is if a dealer delivers the vehicle to your house, it's considered being solicited, so technically you have three days to return that vehicle (might be dependent on state and Lucid isn’t a dealer, and IANAL). That’s a legal matter and can become a little tricky especially with a dealer that doesn't want you to return the purchase, but it’s definitely your right to do so.

 

[sealthy]

Do you mind posting the contract, redacted?

Sure thing! Here it is, in full. It's PNG because it's the only way I know it's really redacted.

 

[borski]

Sure thing! Here it is, in full. It's PNG because it's the only way I know it's really redacted.

So, that reads mostly fine to me. Interesting that in CA there is no “cooling off” period I described in my last post - I didn’t know that! Also interesting that they bar you from class actions with no way to opt out; the purchase agreement binds you to arbitration but provides an easy opt out (if anyone reads the terms, of course).

But, basically: if Lucid Motors doesn’t deliver the car, then Lucid Financial cannot take ownership of it (since they own it, not you), and then you are entitled to a full refund as Lucid Motors would be in breach of contract.

Your real issue is the date - I don’t have a good answer for that. Maybe see if you can get them to future date it?

Thanks for the clarity, tho! I had never seen a Lucid lease before.

 

[sealthy]

So, in the end, my Delivery Advisor called me and told me that my car was in the Bay Area and that I could see it before signing the lease. I just asked for pictures or a video call, which he accepted. I signed the contract and picked the car up today.

Love it! It's a Pure in Fathom Blue Stealth. Looks stunning.