How long does Lucid continue to update software for free?

[cyberwife]

I recall the sales rep telling us when we ordered our AGT that we got three years of free charging and Lucid guaranteed 3 years of free software updates. Am I remembering correctly?

I understand I will have to pay for charging and I know how much that will be. I am more concerned about the software.

Anyone know what Lucid will do with software support after that time period? Will they just stop sending us updates or charge us or ??

 

[Bobby]

I recall the sales rep telling us when we ordered our AGT that we got three years of free charging and Lucid guaranteed 3 years of free software updates. Am I remembering correctly?

I understand I will have to pay for charging and I know how much that will be. I am more concerned about the software.

Anyone know what Lucid will do with software support after that time period? Will they just stop sending us updates or charge us or ??

I think bug fixes will always be free. As far as new features go, there’s got to come a point where they stop doing it. I hope that they make a large release concurrent with the Gravity that gives us some of the features we’ve been hoping for. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

As much as I also want more features, we have to remember that when we buy a car we should always buy it based on what it already has. Many manufactures, including Lucid, may tease or even promise future features and not deliver them. Historically, cars never had added features after the point of purchase… or at the very least, rarely. A good example of this is my 2019 Jaguar I Pace. While I still receive bug updates five years later, it has the older CPU which became obsolete in 2021 when they introduced a brand new system. Therefore, I get no software features added anymore, and there is no hardware upgrade path either. This holds true for all Jaguar and Land Rover/Range Rover models of the same years.

There also may be a point at which the computing power of the current Air (designed around a chipset that was cutting edge in 2015 but is no longer powerful by today’s standards) is not sufficient for future features. This could require a computer upgrade or be simply incompatible. This is true of any computing system, where older models no longer are able to be updated to the newest software.

 

[Amster]

That's true. None of my older cars have ever had features added after purchase. And car manufacturers have to give you a reason to buy a new car in the future. It doesn't benefit them to have you keep your car for a decade or longer. But if you promise specific updates at the time of purchase, then those really should be delivered.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

I think bug fixes will always be free. As far as new features go, there’s got to come a point where they stop doing it. I hope that they make a large release concurrent with the Gravity that gives us some of the features we’ve been hoping for. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

As much as I also want more features, we have to remember that when we buy a car we should always buy it based on what it already has. Many manufactures, including Lucid, may tease or even promise future features and not deliver them. Historically, cars never had added features after the point of purchase… or at the very least, rarely. A good example of this is my 2019 Jaguar I Pace. While I still receive bug updates five years later, it has the older CPU which became obsolete in 2021 when they introduced a brand new system. Therefore, I get no software features added anymore, and there is no hardware upgrade path either. This holds true for all Jaguar and Land Rover/Range Rover models of the same years.

There also may be a point at which the computing power of the current Air (designed around a chipset that was cutting edge in 2015 but is no longer powerful by today’s standards) is not sufficient for future features. This could require a computer upgrade or be simply incompatible. This is true of any computing system, where older models no longer are able to be updated to the newest software.

What you wrote makes good sense, Bobby, but what about something like the added features outlined in DreamDrive Pro vs. DreamDrive Premium? For example, I can see where at some point they end up limiting Level 3 autonomous driving features va. expectations based on HW/SW limitations, but I can't see them just moving on to the next big thing without doing all they can to fulfill the expectations they set for their early adopters.

 

[borski]

What you wrote makes good sense, Bobby, but what about something like the added features outlined in DreamDrive Pro vs. DreamDrive Premium? For example, I can see where at some point they end up limiting Level 3 autonomous driving features va. expectations based on HW/SW limitations, but I can't see them just moving on to the next big thing without doing all they can to fulfill the expectations they set for their early adopters.

DD Pro is the obvious exception. It was bought with future functionality built into expectations, so that is an exception.

That said, I don’t suspect they’ll be charging for upgrades / features. I suspect they’ll be charging for connectivity eventually, which will be the only way to get upgrade / features.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

It's pretty clear that Peter Rawlinson has a deep and abiding respect for the people who made an arguably significant leap of faith in buying a Lucid early on, and that his attitude runs deep in the company. To the extent they can, I think that leap of faith will be rewarded.

 

[Neurio]

DD Pro is the obvious exception. It was bought with future functionality built into expectations, so that is an exception.

That said, I don’t suspect they’ll be charging for upgrades / features. I suspect they’ll be charging for connectivity eventually, which will be the only way to get upgrade / features.

Wouldn't we still be able to download updates over WiFi? A wireless hotspot from the phone should provide all the connectivity needed, right?

 

[Bobby]

Wouldn't we still be able to download updates over WiFi? A wireless hotspot from the phone should provide all the connectivity needed, right?

You would think, but I am under the impression that it does not work that way.

 

[Amster]

I think bug fixes will always be free. As far as new features go, there’s got to come a point where they stop doing it. I hope that they make a large release concurrent with the Gravity that gives us some of the features we’ve been hoping for. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

As much as I also want more features, we have to remember that when we buy a car we should always buy it based on what it already has. Many manufactures, including Lucid, may tease or even promise future features and not deliver them. ...

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

 

[xponents]

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

If you're referring to him being an "insider," then yes, it is well known that there are some on this forum that are insiders (I'm not sure if @Bobby is one, but there are others I'm aware of but won't reveal in case they would prefer for me to not). Any information they get however will likely be under an NDA, and "insiders" revealing info to us would likely result in legal consequences for them.

Back to the topic, I swear I heard that only connectivity would be removed and the updates could still be downloaded via your home's internet if you did not pay. Then again, even if that is not the case, I would bet on mobile service/service centers being able to manually update the car, as cars without OTAs do. If even THAT was removed as an option, I would view it as a very strange omission.

All updates do need to stop at some point for numerous reasons @Bobby has already stated... it is very similar to how older iPhones do not get the latest software updates due to their older hardware. When that does happen, I think owners would appreciate getting the option to retrofit newer hardware as Tesla has provided for some models. It is still important to note that Tesla was the exception rather than the standard, and I wouldn't expect Lucid to offer a retrofit to the newer Sapphire/Gravity processors unless only those newer processors can provide the features Lucid promised such as Level 3 autonomy (in that case, the upgrade COULD be free?).

 

[segbrk]

This shifting expectation is why Tesla, Mercedes, and others are starting to charge subscription fees on software-heavy cars. They have to cover continued software maintenance somehow. It doesn't have to be done as irrationally as some other manufacturers. I'd pay monthly for DDP (when it becomes more complete, at least) because it requires constant improvements. I'd pay monthly for remote access features, too, since the app and all that requires constant maintenance and improvements. It's the "pay monthly to drive faster" subscriptions that are infuriating.
The "buy for what it is now" thing is becoming outdated in my view, because of software-heavy things like DDP. It's not reasonable to buy into DDP (or Autopilot/FSD, BlueCruise, etc.) and just get what it is on day 1, because new data and updates are continuously (hopefully) making it safer, not just making it "nicer." And these are, in a lot of cases at least, updates which don't require new hardware.

 

[Bobby]

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

I could tell you, but….

 

[xponents]

I could tell you, but….

You have (1) email from Lucid Motors' lawyers!

This shifting expectation is why Tesla, Mercedes, and others are starting to charge subscription fees on software-heavy cars. They have to cover continued software maintenance somehow. It doesn't have to be done as irrationally as some other manufacturers. I'd pay monthly for DDP (when it becomes more complete, at least) because it requires constant improvements. I'd pay monthly for remote access features, too, since the app and all that requires constant maintenance and improvements. It's the "pay monthly to drive faster" subscriptions that are infuriating.
The "buy for what it is now" thing is becoming outdated in my view, because of software-heavy things like DDP. It's not reasonable to buy into DDP (or Autopilot/FSD, BlueCruise, etc.) and just get what it is on day 1, because new data and updates are continuously (hopefully) making it safer, not just making it "nicer." And these are, in a lot of cases at least, updates which don't require new hardware.

You're right, but when something promised is not delivered, I wouldn't think paying is fair. For example, I think people would be fine with paying to get level 4 autonomy instead of level 3 (which was promised). However, the real question here is, will customers mind paying for already promised features, even if they are software (in this example, level 3)?

What is absolutely unacceptable in my mind regardless of POV is paying for things like heated seats and performance with a subscription. Like, seriously? If the manufacturer wants to offer limitations at the "showroom" level (eg: the hp difference between the old pure awd and the touring), I would be totally fine with it as it is just trying to section the lineup. Paying extra for a HP boost after you buy the car though... it pisses off the higher trim owners as well as the lower trim owners that have to pay for it.

 

[borski]

Wouldn't we still be able to download updates over WiFi? A wireless hotspot from the phone should provide all the connectivity needed, right?

At the moment / as of when I last checked, updates are delivered only over LTE. Other things (status, commands, etc.) can be delivered over wifi. But the data of the update itself is always delivered over LTE.

No, I don't know why. Yes, I would change that if I had the opportunity, assuming there isn't some crazy context I'm missing.

 

[Neurio]

At the moment / as of when I last checked, updates are delivered only over LTE. Other things (status, commands, etc.) can be delivered over wifi. But the data of the update itself is always delivered over LTE.

No, I don't know why. Yes, I would change that if I had the opportunity, assuming there isn't some crazy context I'm missing.

Did the update thing change? Way back when, I was told multiple times by CS (when my updates were repeatedly way delayed) that I should keep the WiFi on to get the updates because it might be more reliable than LTE.

 

[borski]

Did the update thing change? Way back when, I was told multiple times by CS (when my updates were repeatedly way delayed) that I should keep the WiFi on to get the updates because it might be more reliable than LTE.

I, too, was told these things. And yet, thus far, it would appear updates have always been delivered over LTE.

This may not be true, I suppose, and my traffic monitoring may simply be very off. I am not certain. But I'm pretty sure.

Perhaps someone at Lucid or an "insider" can eventually clarify.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

In the early days of the updates I had a problem because my garage was too far away from my modem in my office. So my Lucid could not receive the updates. However, when I moved the car out of the garage and closer to my office by parking outside my window on the street the update did download successfully. Since then I added the Xfinity xFi pods to my home and one in the garage and since then I've had no problem with the updates. So in my case it would seem that wi-fi is the answer.

 

[borski]

In the early days of the updates I had a problem because my garage was too far away from my modem in my office. So my Lucid could not receive the updates. However, when I moved the car out of the garage and closer to my office by parking outside my window on the street the update did download successfully. Since then I added the Xfinity xFi pods to my home and one in the garage and since then I've had no problem with the updates. So in my case it would seem that wi-fi is the answer.

Are you sure your garage doesn’t just have worse cell reception?

 

[thecodingart]

DD Pro is the obvious exception. It was bought with future functionality built into expectations, so that is an exception.

That said, I don’t suspect they’ll be charging for upgrades / features. I suspect they’ll be charging for connectivity eventually, which will be the only way to get upgrade / features.

I’m still slightly baffled on how little (if at all) they’ve advanced DD Pro since launch. I’ve been questioning if they even have a roadmap for existing hardware here. . .

 

[Bobby]

I’m still slightly baffled on how little (if at all) they’ve advanced DD Pro since launch. I’ve been questioning if they even have a roadmap for existing hardware here. . .

They do.