Highway Assist Lane Centering

[Wey]

Lane centering needs to be more robust as the current iteration is over-zealous in staying in the center of the lane.

For me personally, it's a hit or a miss -- if there are a decent number of other cars on the road, I won't have it on since it tends to stay closer to other cars compared to the way I drive. I firmly believe the safest way to drive is away from other cars, so any extra little distance I can add gives me a few more moments of reaction time.

When driving on 2-lane highways (in the US), I prefer to stay closer to the left-side of the lane in order to give a slightly bigger buffer between me and other cars. When driving in the middle lane(s) of a 3+ lane highway, I typically prefer to stay as close to the center as possible, except when passing cars. Anytime I am passing a truck/large vehicle, I tend to stay closer to the side of the lane that is furthest away.

A couple of options as a jumping off point to explore:
1) (Most simple) Add a configurable area of tolerance (10%, 15%, 20%) where deviation from the center of the lane does not trigger lane centering until that threshold is crossed.
2) (More advanced) #1 but with lane-awareness where it's preferred to stay closer to left of middle than right of middle when in the left most lane, vice versa for the right most lane.
3) (Advanced) All the above but also with awareness of other cars with preference to the side furthest away from cars when passing.

Curious what other people think about the idea

 

[joec]

Lane centering needs to be more robust as the current iteration is over-zealous in staying in the center of the lane.

For me personally, it's a hit or a miss -- if there are a decent number of other cars on the road, I won't have it on since it tends to stay closer to other cars compared to the way I drive. I firmly believe the safest way to drive is away from other cars, so any extra little distance I can add gives me a few more moments of reaction time.

When driving on 2-lane highways (in the US), I prefer to stay closer to the left-side of the lane in order to give a slightly bigger buffer between me and other cars. When driving in the middle lane(s) of a 3+ lane highway, I typically prefer to stay as close to the center as possible, except when passing cars. Anytime I am passing a truck/large vehicle, I tend to stay closer to the side of the lane that is furthest away.

A couple of options as a jumping off point to explore:
1) (Most simple) Add a configurable area of tolerance (10%, 15%, 20%) where deviation from the center of the lane does not trigger lane centering until that threshold is crossed.
2) (More advanced) #1 but with lane-awareness where it's preferred to stay closer to left of middle than right of middle when in the left most lane, vice versa for the right most lane.
3) (Advanced) All the above but also with awareness of other cars with preference to the side furthest away from cars when passing.

Curious what other people think about the idea

This is exactly how they got into trouble and ruined HA for the vast majority of us. No thanks.

I agree with you that most of the time Lane Centering warnings are more trouble than they are worth. But usually taking a simple feature and making it more complicated is a bad idea.

 

[dahan55]

Lane centering needs to be more robust as the current iteration is over-zealous in staying in the center of the lane.

For me personally, it's a hit or a miss -- if there are a decent number of other cars on the road, I won't have it on since it tends to stay closer to other cars compared to the way I drive. I firmly believe the safest way to drive is away from other cars, so any extra little distance I can add gives me a few more moments of reaction time.

When driving on 2-lane highways (in the US), I prefer to stay closer to the left-side of the lane in order to give a slightly bigger buffer between me and other cars. When driving in the middle lane(s) of a 3+ lane highway, I typically prefer to stay as close to the center as possible, except when passing cars. Anytime I am passing a truck/large vehicle, I tend to stay closer to the side of the lane that is furthest away.

A couple of options as a jumping off point to explore:
1) (Most simple) Add a configurable area of tolerance (10%, 15%, 20%) where deviation from the center of the lane does not trigger lane centering until that threshold is crossed.
2) (More advanced) #1 but with lane-awareness where it's preferred to stay closer to left of middle than right of middle when in the left most lane, vice versa for the right most lane.
3) (Advanced) All the above but also with awareness of other cars with preference to the side furthest away from cars when passing.

Curious what other people think about the idea

Sounds reasonable to me. I don’t know what joec means when he said it ‘ruined HA’. He doesn’t elaborate. All I can say is that I love HA. Total game changer for me. I like the most recent update where one can gently put a hand on the wheel and the car will move left or right by a few feet without kicking out of HA. Let go of the wheel and the car goes back to being centered in the lane. I like it because it gives me the ability to nudged the car left or right while passing trucks or other vehicles which are too close to my lane. Would it be better for the car to be smart enough to see a truck and nudge the car to the left of center on its own? Absolutely, but it should be an option that we can turn on or off. I believe Ford’s update to BlueCruise is going to nudge the car automatically when passing a vehicle, so I hope Lucid wouldn’t be too far behind it offering this convenience.

I am still waiting for true hands-free. Any idea when this is supposed to come out? I’m not getting any younger.

 

[SDHacker]

Sounds reasonable to me. I don’t know what joec means when he said it ‘ruined HA’. He doesn’t elaborate. All I can say is that I love HA. Total game changer for me. I like the most recent update where one can gently put a hand on the wheel and the car will move left or right by a few feet without kicking out of HA. Let go of the wheel and the car goes back to being centered in the lane. I like it because it gives me the ability to nudged the car left or right while passing trucks or other vehicles which are too close to my lane. Would it be better for the car to be smart enough to see a truck and nudge the car to the left of center on its own? Absolutely, but it should be an option that we can turn on or off. I believe Ford’s update to BlueCruise is going to nudge the car automatically when passing a vehicle, so I hope Lucid wouldn’t be too far behind it offering this convenience.

I am still waiting for true hands-free. Any idea when this is supposed to come out? I’m not getting any younger.

After lane biasing was introduced in HA, it became much less stable in maintaining position within the lane. Before the feature was implemented, I used HA all the time. I stopped using it after as it fails to stay in the lane too often. Drove between San Diego and Seattle mainly using Adaptive Cruise after multiple instances of the car leaving the lane. Many others have reported the same.

 

[MorganB]

It's very difficult with the updated HA to determine what amount of resistance is needed on the steering wheel to make HA aware that your hand is on the wheel while not steering. Consequently I either end up gently moving the car in the lane or getting yelled at to put my hands on the wheel. It was much more solid in the lane before and it was easy to keep resistance on the wheel.

 

[gavram]

I wish Lucid had just added an on/off toggle for HA sensitivity as part of the update to allow it to either operate as before or allow it to use the new more flexible manual lane bias. There are times I would like it to be more rigid as before and times I like the ability to have more movement in lane.

 

[joec]

Sounds reasonable to me. I don’t know what joec means when he said it ‘ruined HA’. He doesn’t elaborate. All I can say is that I love HA. Total game changer for me. I like the most recent update where one can gently put a hand on the wheel and the car will move left or right by a few feet without kicking out of HA. Let go of the wheel and the car goes back to being centered in the lane. I like it because it gives me the ability to nudged the car left or right while passing trucks or other vehicles which are too close to my lane. Would it be better for the car to be smart enough to see a truck and nudge the car to the left of center on its own? Absolutely, but it should be an option that we can turn on or off. I believe Ford’s update to BlueCruise is going to nudge the car automatically when passing a vehicle, so I hope Lucid wouldn’t be too far behind it offering this convenience.

I am still waiting for true hands-free. Any idea when this is supposed to come out? I’m not getting any younger.

I now regularly get lane departure warnings while in HA, without my hands on the wheel. That’s how terrible it is now at keeping you in the lane. Prior to the introduction of biasing, it only ever faltered on very sharp curves, or when there were worn out lane markers on the road.

The biasing via the wheel is a terrible idea. As others have pointed out, you now have to balance your resistance just so to avoid the car constantly ping ponging from one side of the lane to the other like a drunken sailor, lest you get beeps every 15 seconds and have to jiggle the wheel.

A “feature” I never wanted in the first place has made my car demonstrably worse. That’s never a good thing.

Previously, if I was passing a big truck, I’d just disengage HA for the ten seconds I actually wanted to move over slightly. Then re-engage. What was so hard about that?

Simple. Simple. Simple. Keep the software simple.

Lucid has trouble with opening doors at this point. We want to trust them with configurable tolerances and situational awareness?

 

[borski]

I now regularly get lane departure warnings while in HA, without my hands on the wheel. That’s how terrible it is now at keeping you in the lane. Prior to the introduction of biasing, it only ever faltered on very sharp curves, or when there were worn out lane markers on the road.

Wait, hang on - this is not my experience. If I have my hands off the wheel it centers perfectly fine; it’s just that it senses my slight nudge, when I have my hands on the wheel, as a biasing attempt and starts to ping pong as I (naturally) slightly overcorrect and I hate this game.

But hands off, it stays perfectly centered. If yours doesn’t, have you checked your alignment?

 

[joec]

Wait, hang on - this is not my experience. If I have my hands off the wheel it centers perfectly fine; it’s just that it senses my slight nudge, when I have my hands on the wheel, as a biasing attempt and starts to ping pong as I (naturally) slightly overcorrect and I hate this game.

But hands off, it stays perfectly centered. If yours doesn’t, have you checked your alignment?

It stays aligned for me, until there's any sort of curve in the road. Then about 40% of the time, it turns about half as much as it should and the car falls out of the lane, prompting a lane departure warning.

It never did this until the biasing "feature" was introduced. (At least not unless it was a pretty heavy curve, which it could never do. I was okay with that.) This happens on minor twists now.

I've figured out a perfect "two finger" position and tension on the wheel to avoid constant ping ponging. But even that is more effort than it's worth most of the time.

Bottom line: HA was actually pretty good. And now it's very objectively worse. And I don't think it's a matter of bug fixes. I think they need to rethink the biasing feature altogether. Or at least let me turn it off. I basically never want to be anywhere but the center of the lane when I'm letting the car drive. I am happy to go manual when I need to avoid a big truck or other obstacle.

Also, Lucid would be smart to take the Air on a road trip down the I70 through Colorado sometime. It's a perfect testing ground for any ADAS system. Constant curves, worn line markers to the point even I can't see them, potholes galore, elevation shifts that are constant, and patches of heavy traffic followed by no one on the road at all. Go in the winter, and you can also get the bonus of seventeen inches of snow.

When it can drive me through that with minimal intervention, I'll be super impressed. That would be my long-term target at this point if it were me.

 

[Wey]

But usually taking a simple feature and making it more complicated is a bad idea.

Agreed, simple solutions tend to be some of the best solutions.
That’s why I think option 1 would be ideal where we keep the current base functionality but provide a 2nd option that keeps you centered but doesn’t make every tiny adjustment to try and keep the car “perfectly centered”

In my mind, based on what you’ve described: removing lane biasing and adding this additional feature would take HA to the next level.

 

[Mark_in_MA]

Since the update I’ve given up on HA most of the time and just use the adaptive cruise control. It’s less aggravating than trying to apply the exact amount of torque so that it knows you are there and doesn’t ping pong you at highway speeds around the lane.

Rather than going back to the way they did it before they need to get hands free driving to work.

 

[PureVA]

I've only had my car for two months so I never experienced the "old" HA, but I have to say it's not very useful as it is. The keep your hands on the wheel and take control now warnings are overbearing considering I always have at least one hand on the wheel and still get the warnings. I've been using it just as I try out all new car functions, but when my wife comments about some jerky car motion, I have to explain I'm fighting the HA. That's never a good experience.

 

[hydbob]

Keep your fingers on the wheel, and only jiggle the wheel when it gives you a warning. Should work a lot better.

 

[PureVA]

Keep your fingers on the wheel, and only jiggle the wheel when it gives you a warning. Should work a lot better.

I guess my comments were really two different issues. If my hand is on the wheel, I should never get a warning to put them on the wheel; no jiggering should be required, but I'll try it to see how that works. If I have two hands so firmly planted on the wheel that the warning never comes up with the current sensitivity, I don't see what HA is supposed to do for me. The fighting the HA is on the occasional corner, exit, or construction zone when the HA starts taking the car where I don't want it to go and I have to correct it. Correcting the HA (basically steering against where it is trying to steer the car) requires more force than normal steering which can result in occasional jerky motions.

 

[Bobby]

I guess my comments were really two different issues. If my hand is on the wheel, I should never get a warning to put them on the wheel; no jiggering should be required, but I'll try it to see how that works. If I have two hands so firmly planted on the wheel that the warning never comes up with the current sensitivity, I don't see what HA is supposed to do for me. The fighting the HA is on the occasional corner, exit, or construction zone when the HA starts taking the car where I don't want it to go and I have to correct it. Correcting the HA (basically steering against where it is trying to steer the car) requires more force than normal steering which can result in occasional jerky motions.

While I agree with you, that’s not the way the Lucid works. The wheel is not capacitive… in other words, it doesn’t detect the touch. You must jiggle it a little bit for it to register that you are holding it.

 

[hydbob]

I guess my comments were really two different issues. If my hand is on the wheel, I should never get a warning to put them on the wheel; no jiggering should be required, but I'll try it to see how that works. If I have two hands so firmly planted on the wheel that the warning never comes up with the current sensitivity, I don't see what HA is supposed to do for me. The fighting the HA is on the occasional corner, exit, or construction zone when the HA starts taking the car where I don't want it to go and I have to correct it. Correcting the HA (basically steering against where it is trying to steer the car) requires more force than normal steering which can result in occasional jerky motions.

Also, when lanes split the car tries to seek the line that went missing and if it's not clearly marked it seems a line.

 

[Wey]

Also, when lanes split the car tries to seek the line that went missing and if it's not clearly marked it seems a line.

Yeah I've noticed something similar with false positive alerts for the lane departure warning. Doesn't even have to be a missing line, sometimes alerts on highway ramps where it goes from a dotted line to a solid line for some reason.

I think there's another factor for the FPs on the lane departures I've been getting but I can't quite put my finger on it yet

 

[Alex]

Yeah I've noticed something similar with false positive alerts for the lane departure warning. Doesn't even have to be a missing line, sometimes alerts on highway ramps where it goes from a dotted line to a solid line for some reason.

I think there's another factor for the FPs on the lane departures I've been getting but I can't quite put my finger on it yet

I have this problem on city streets when approaching a left turn lane. The street widens to the left and the lines for the turn lane are further down the road. Lucid Lame Assist thinks that the road is now wider and I get a warning for the right side, because I'm obviously no longer in the middle of the lane and too close to the right. It's also obvious that the Highway Assist and Lame Assist are two independent "features": The car may drive correctly with Highway Assist, but Lame Assist thinks it's not – how about an integrated software stack guys.

 

[BerkeleyLeaser]

I have this problem on city streets when approaching a left turn lane. The street widens to the left and the lines for the turn lane are further down the road. Lucid Lame Assist thinks that the road is now wider and I get a warning for the right side, because I'm obviously no longer in the middle of the lane and too close to the right. It's also obvious that the Highway Assist and Lame Assist are two independent "features": The car may drive correctly with Highway Assist, but Lame Assist thinks it's not – how about an integrated software stack guys.

I wasn't aware that HA is designed for city streets - is this a new or different feature?

 

[Bobby]

I wasn't aware that HA is designed for city streets - is this a new or different feature?

I think he's referring to Lane Keeping Assist, not HA.