Gravity Orders Discussion

[WeighingGravity]

Hey, at least forum traffic doesn't seem slow all of a sudden.

 

[TakeDuo]

In the early Air days there were discussions in the automotive press about LIDAR, supposedly based on interviews with Lucid engineers.

At the time, it said that LIDAR was running in the background in order to fill in gaps in data from the primary sensors. Whether that actually was or still is the case, I'm not sure.

I’ve shared this before - According to this video, the data on the pilot panel of this alpha build is LiDAR. That was 8 years ago so I’m sure it’s being incorporated now. Neat to be able to visualize what it “sees” when activated.

Is the Gravity LiDAR sensor the same as the Air? Upgrade?

 

[DeaneG]

All those Tesla autopilot crashes into emergency vehicles parked on the side of the road, and into the gore divider on Highway 101 a few years ago, could have been easily prevented with lidar. Cameras don't see discern stationary objects well - is is a shadow on the road, or a sofa, or a sideways truck? Vision algorithms develop with time. Lidar works now, without phantom braking.

 

[Adnillien]

While additional sensors like radar and LiDAR will improve ADAS systems, its not as simple as saying that the addition of LiDAR would prevent hitting parked vehicles. Both radar and LiDAR will provide much better distance information than optical cameras and that will definitely help. The secondary problem is that ADAS systems can only track a limited number of objects/targets. The system has to determine what to track and what not to track. Moving targets will be tracked, but not all stationary targets will be tracked and that is the problem when one of the stationary targets that should be tracked is not tracked.

 

[DeaneG]

While additional sensors like radar and LiDAR will improve ADAS systems, its not as simple as saying that the addition of LiDAR would prevent hitting parked vehicles. Both radar and LiDAR will provide much better distance information than optical cameras and that will definitely help. The secondary problem is that ADAS systems can only track a limited number of objects/targets. The system has to determine what to track and what not to track. Moving targets will be tracked, but not all stationary targets will be tracked and that is the problem when one of the stationary targets that should be tracked is not tracked.

Right, I didn't mean to imply that adding another sensor modality will 100% cover the gaps of others. My reason for wanting a car with Lidar is that I'm looking for the reasonably best safety systems I can get, rather than the least expensive. There's no certainty that Lidar will accomplish that. But IMO a step in the right direction.

 

[HC_79]

FWIW - Motor Intelligence reported 50 Gravity registrations in January. Not sure how accurate their data is but it could be some signs of progress. If showrooms were the priority though, I'd think even 1 of these 50 would've popped up somewhere by now though. Maybe they're still going to staff at Lucid or the number isn't true

 

[hmp10]

FWIW - Motor Intelligence reported 50 Gravity registrations in January. Not sure how accurate their data is but it could be some signs of progress. If showrooms were the priority though, I'd think even 1 of these 50 would've popped up somewhere by now though. Maybe they're still going to staff at Lucid or the number isn't true

View attachment 26537

Several auto news sites picked up on this figure of 50 Gravities delivered, but I didn't post about it because I could not verify the credibility of the source. All I found was that "Motor Intelligence" has a staff of 1 person who operates out of a condo in Greenville, SC.

Is it possible that 50 Gravities have been built and registered as internal sales destined for the Lucid Design Studios but not yet delivered? I guess. But I think that's the most this could mean, if even that.

 

[cmansell]

Several auto news sites picked up on this figure of 50 Gravities delivered, but I didn't post about it because I could not verify the credibility of the source. All I found was that "Motor Intelligence" has a staff of 1 person who operates out of a condo in Greenville, SC.

Is it possible that 50 Gravities have been built and registered as internal sales destined for the Lucid Design Studios but not yet delivered? I guess. But I think that's the most this could mean, if even that.

One of the articles that listed this information stated that these numbers were pulled from DMV records, and were an indication of the number of VIN numbers that were registered.

Since it is just a VIN number registration the vehicles may not be completed or ready to be distributed.

 

[HC_79]

has a staff of 1 person who operates out of a condo in Greenville, SC.

seems legit then

s it possible that 50 Gravities have been built and registered as internal sales destined for the Lucid Design Studios but not yet delivered? I guess

I'm wondering the same and was thinking if they are destined for showrooms they'll likely show up the week of the earnings call

 

[Bus Driver]

I know that Sandy Munro is impressed with the quality of Chinese cars these days. (Frankly, though, all you have to do is pour Munro a cocktail, and you can get him to praise anything. Being half drunk on camera is just not my thing, I guess.) However, I've had too many problems with Chinese products, especially with metallurgy involved, to touch one as expensive as a car.

I've bought premium American-brand plumbing fixtures that have had the chrome peel away and found out they were manufactured in China.

After hurricane Wilma in Florida, U.S. suppliers ran out of aluminum bar stock to rebuild pool cages and turned to China for supplies. Within two years the finishes were peeling off them all over Florida.

The major U.S. air conditioner manufacturers now source their condenser coils from China, and they have a service life of less than three years from developing pinhole leaks. (I know, as I've replaced four of them so far.)

Two of the condos I bought for investment had Chinese drywall and had to be gutted, right down to removing the wiring and plumbing from inside the walls.

Seven years after its installation, our home elevator still has a pungent odor in it. I found out the plywood used to construct the cab was sourced from China.

I wouldn't touch a Chinese car with a 10-foot pole until they have been on the roads long enough to know from reliable sources what their service life really is. The Chinese certainly aren't going to tell us.

Is there a way I can subscribe to your comments?

 

[msaunders9430]

Is there a way I can subscribe to your comments?

Same here.
It's kinda like when EF Hutton talks.

 

[BS8899]

In the early Air days there were discussions in the automotive press about LIDAR, supposedly based on interviews with Lucid engineers.

At the time, it said that LIDAR was running in the background in order to fill in gaps in data from the primary sensors. Whether that actually was or still is the case, I'm not sure.

LIDAR has proven itself to be very effective in hands-off driving. The most public example is evidenced on Waymo's implementation of LIDAR. That said, Waymo's LIDAR implementation is vastly different than what Lucid (and a few other EV mfg) is pursuing.

LIDAR is present on a handful of EVs. But there hasn't been any compelling demonstration of its usefulness. It is reported by some that LIDAR will be dropped from some (many?) EVs in the future.

Lucid's LIDAR implementation appears quite limited, with only a front-facing LIDAR transmitter/receiver. I can see it use in some driver assist features, sensing and monitoring cars/objects ahead (akin to a Doppler laser gun). Going beyond that to 3D-imaging and tracking the speed of objects in front might require computing power beyond what is in the Lucid Air.

On the Lucid Air, this LIDAR implementation has been deployed as a premium feature (DDPro) at added costs.

Q: does Lucid owe us updates on the current and future usage of its LIDAR capabilities?

 

[borski]

But there hasn't been any compelling demonstration of its usefulness.

According to whom? I think the fact the Drive Assist works extremely well for me (even on 2.6, and even if it is failing in some way for others at the moment) is a good indicator that LiDAR has been useful. It has been a better system than I have used in almost any other vehicle (though there are a couple superior ones too).

Moreover, we have no idea why and how they’re using it.

Q: does Lucid owe us updates on the current and future usage of its LIDAR capabilities?

I don’t think so. I didn’t pay for a LiDAR unit; I paid for DDP. They owe us updates on DDP; the implementation detail is interesting, and I hope they do a tech talk on it, but I don’t think they “owe” us details on how they use which sensors and how often. They just owe us a working and improving DDP.

 

[BS8899]

According to whom? I think the fact the Drive Assist works extremely well for me (even on 2.6, and even if it is failing in some way for others at the moment) is a good indicator that LiDAR has been useful. It has been a better system than I have used in almost any other vehicle (though there are a couple superior ones too).

Moreover, we have no idea why and how they’re using it.


I don’t think so. I didn’t pay for a LiDAR unit; I paid for DDP. They owe us updates on DDP; the implementation detail is interesting, and I hope they do a tech talk on it, but I don’t think they “owe” us details on how they use which sensors and how often. They just owe us a working and improving DDP.

I owned 3 cars with driver assist features. Only the Lucid has LIDAR. I experienced no discernable differences between them. If anything, Lucid's implementation of DA features lags behind the other tow cars (Lexus/Rivian).

I am all for LIDAR. But I haven't seen anything on the Lucid that elucidate the LIDAR advantage. Pease educate us!

 

[DeaneG]

I owned 3 cars with driver assist features. Only the Lucid has LIDAR. I experienced no discernable differences between them. If anything, Lucid's implementation of DA features lags behind the other tow cars (Lexus/Rivian).

How have you tested them?

 

[BS8899]

How have you tested them?

Daily driving. Long distance driving with a large part of the route on DA.

My 2017 Lexus RH450H had (the equivalent) of DA, HUD, lane-keep etc.. I put 60,000+ miles on it.

Similarly, I've driven my Lucid Air and my Rivian R1S on the same routes. Lucid had gotten better, but nothing above and beyond the other vehicles, and it took more time to get to the same performance.

I think Lucid, with the recent updates (2.4.0 plus0 is about on-par with my other vehicles. However, if the question is, does Lidar add much to my DA driving and performance, my answer would be no!

 

[borski]

I owned 3 cars with driver assist features. Only the Lucid has LIDAR. I experienced no discernable differences between them. If anything, Lucid's implementation of DA features lags behind the other tow cars (Lexus/Rivian).

Okay; and my anecdotal experience has been different from your anecdotal experience. Of course that doesn’t make me right.

I am all for LIDAR. But I haven't seen anything on the Lucid that elucidate the LIDAR advantage. Pease educate us!

What are you looking to “see”? That’s what I’m trying to understand. It’s not magically going to enable the vehicle to levitate, lol. It’s just another sensor in a suite of sensors used for Lucid’s approach to ADAS. Nobody ever said it was magic.

 

[BS8899]

Daily driving. Long distance driving with a large part of the route on DA.

My 2017 Lexus RH450H had (the equivalent) of DA, HUD, lane-keep etc.. I put 60,000+ miles on it.

Similarly, I've driven my Lucid Air and my Rivian R1S on the same routes. Lucid had gotten better, but nothing above and beyond the other vehicles, and it took more time to get to the same performance.

I think Lucid, with the recent updates (2.4.0 plus0 is about on-par with my other vehicles. However, if the question is, does Lidar add much to my DA driving and performance, my answer would be no!

It is not a trick question....Lucid should just educate us on what LIDAR does on the Lucid and how it adds to DA and safety. They can educate us on how to turn LIDAR ON or OFF and see the difference. Lucid can show us comparison with other EVs.

 

[BS8899]

Okay; and my anecdotal experience has been different from your anecdotal experience. Of course that doesn’t make me right.


What are you looking to “see”? That’s what I’m trying to understand. It’s not magically going to enable the vehicle to levitate, lol. It’s just another sensor in a suite of sensors used for Lucid’s approach to ADAS. Nobody ever said it was magic.

Go see my answer to DeaneG

 

[borski]

It is not a trick question....Lucid should just educate us on what LIDAR does on the Lucid and how it adds to DA and safety. They can educate us on how to turn LIDAR ON or OFF and see the difference. Lucid can show us comparison with other EVs.

Again: for what purpose? To satisfy your curiosity? I mean, I’m fine with that, since I’m curious too… but it doesn’t actually serve a purpose to any consumer.

You seem to care very much about understanding why and how LiDAR is used. The general consumer does not; they only care that DDP works well. The end.

I’m also curious. And would love a tech talk on it.

But it serves Lucid little relatively purpose in selling the car; I have no doubt most people who buy it don’t know what lidar is, where to find it, or anything other than “it uses lasers,” if they even know that at all. That isn’t because consumers are dumb, but because the implementation detail isn’t the point.

When you buy an iPhone that is touch sensitive, most people don’t care about how it keeps fingerprints away using an oleophobic coating and how the glass doesn’t bend, or why there are multiple layers so you don’t destroy the capacitative surface, etc. They only care that the phone works, and works well.

It’s not like Lucid makes the lidar a central point of their marketing. It’s just a sensor in a suite of sensors. The *ADAS* features are the point.