Free DCFC Programs . . . the Downside?

[hmp10]

Tom Moloughney of "State of Charge" just put up a video making the point that free charging programs offered by EV manufacturers may be beginning to backfire in terms of spurring growth of EV adoption:

 

[Babyrocko1908]

Tom Moloughney of "State of Charge" just put up a video making the point that free charging programs offered by EV manufacturers may be beginning to backfire in terms of spurring growth of EV adoption:

Watched it an hour ago. He makes several valid points.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I agree with him except for one thing: everyone trying to do free charging right now helps in the long term because it stresses these crappy systems early, forcing improvement, otherwise it’s gonna be a MEGA disaster once lots more people adopt EVs. Better to expose flaws as early as possible.

 

[HC_79]

I completely agree with him.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Here’s the thing. People don’t follow instructions, are selfish, and lazy. But if you make it expensive to be that way, then charging habits might change? But still, I think the MOST important thing to get right with EVs is charging reliability, everything else is secondary. There’s nothing more useful than a Bolt owner going and plugging into a 350kw DCFC and charging to 100% every day to stress the system, having it all fail and then when enough people complain it’s broken then we can see improvements?. Because if the system can’t handle the dumbasses then it’s not going to handle the rest of us.

 

[HC_79]

If the charging network was built properly it should be able to stress test itself. Working in the games industry and dealing with online services in the past we don't wait to release the game and let the users break it due to a sheer overload on the servers. We stress test the hell out of the servers before launch otherwise you have a pissed off customer.

The whole business model needs to change. The charger needs to identify if a car is plugging into a charger it shouldn't and pop up a message to move it to a slower charger if one is available. So a Bolt owner plugging into a 350Kw would be told to gtfo of the spot if there were plenty of 150Kw's free. When the charger hits 80%, double or triple the cost per KW. When it gets to 90% quadruple it. Make the idle fees higher. Car companies should also allow the cable to be disconnected when 100% charge is reached. Lucid for example keeps the cable locked even when the session has ended.

The locations should also be designed better. For a 4 charger location, 8 parking spots should be allocated. When a location is full you drive around to the other side of the charger (facing its back) so when the other car is finished you're ready to take the cable and plug in. Avoids people fighting or figuring out who's next in line. Also why it's important to allow someone to disconnect the cable at 100% or when the session is finished

Yes, users are selfish and lazy so the onus is on the charging companies to hit them where it hurts. When you hit someones back pocket 9 times out of 10 they make the mistake once and get the hint! I work in IT, spoon feeding people only goes so far.

 

[joec]

If the charging network was built properly it should be able to stress test itself. Working in the games industry and dealing with online services in the past we don't wait to release the game and let the users break it due to a sheer overload on the servers. We stress test the hell out of the servers before launch otherwise you have a pissed off customer.

The whole business model needs to change. The charger needs to identify if a car is plugging into a charger it shouldn't and pop up a message to move it to a slower charger if one is available. So a Bolt owner plugging into a 350Kw would be told to gtfo of the spot if there were plenty of 150Kw's free. When the charger hits 80%, double or triple the cost per KW. When it gets to 90% quadruple it. Make the idle fees higher. Car companies should also allow the cable to be disconnected when 100% charge is reached. Lucid for example keeps the cable locked even when the session has ended.

The locations should also be designed better. For a 4 charger location, 8 parking spots should be allocated. When a location is full you drive around to the other side of the charger (facing its back) so when the other car is finished you're ready to take the cable and plug in. Avoids people fighting or figuring out who's next in line. Also why it's important to allow someone to disconnect the cable at 100% or when the session is finished

Yes, users are selfish and lazy so the onus is on the charging companies to hit them where it hurts. When you hit someones back pocket 9 times out of 10 they make the mistake once and get the hint! I work in IT, spoon feeding people only goes so far.

Treating your customers like you hate them and punishing them for what they don’t know isn’t usually great policy.

But I will agree, the entire business needs a rethink.

Why are there even different chargers of different capacities at a single location in the first place? Just make all the chargers equal, and provide the fastest power to whatever the car can take.

During peak hours, or when chargers are getting filled up, set a max charge limit of 80%. Or a max time limit for how long you can be there. Don’t even allow customers to “pay” their way into being inconsiderate.

Give customers something to do that’s extremely close by while they charge, or while they are waiting for a charge. Indoors. That way, you make some extra profit from them in that interim. So you have money to maintain the chargers.

 

[Sandvinsd]

I would generally agree with him. I like the L2 charging install credits and I think that is the way to go. A $$ amount is also another way where you can offer free charging but people won’t sit at the station all day, every day. But you can offer unlimited free charging, just limit it to ONE 30’ session per day. If the car can get the advertised speeds, one 30’ session should provide you with all the power one would need for daily issue. That way, you get the free charging, but you are only tying up the charger for 30’ and it won’t be after 80%. It is kind of like the “free food for a year” that a fast food might offer on a coupon, but limited to one time per week.

 

[pjdcorp]

If the charging network was built properly it should be able to stress test itself. Working in the games industry and dealing with online services in the past we don't wait to release the game and let the users break it due to a sheer overload on the servers. We stress test the hell out of the servers before launch otherwise you have a pissed off customer.

The whole business model needs to change. The charger needs to identify if a car is plugging into a charger it shouldn't and pop up a message to move it to a slower charger if one is available. So a Bolt owner plugging into a 350Kw would be told to gtfo of the spot if there were plenty of 150Kw's free. When the charger hits 80%, double or triple the cost per KW. When it gets to 90% quadruple it. Make the idle fees higher. Car companies should also allow the cable to be disconnected when 100% charge is reached. Lucid for example keeps the cable locked even when the session has ended.

The locations should also be designed better. For a 4 charger location, 8 parking spots should be allocated. When a location is full you drive around to the other side of the charger (facing its back) so when the other car is finished you're ready to take the cable and plug in. Avoids people fighting or figuring out who's next in line. Also why it's important to allow someone to disconnect the cable at 100% or when the session is finished

Yes, users are selfish and lazy so the onus is on the charging companies to hit them where it hurts. When you hit someones back pocket 9 times out of 10 they make the mistake once and get the hint! I work in IT, spoon feeding people only goes so far.

Yes, I agree some users are selfish & tie up fast chargers with cars that don't need it.. But I think part of it is the learning curve we all have to go thru. I also agree with the person who posted suggesting substantially increasing the cost for idling.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Yes, I agree some users are selfish & tie up fast chargers with cars that don't need it.. But I think part of it is the learning curve we all have to go thru. I also agree with the person who posted suggesting substantially increasing the cost for idling.

Yes. Limit the unlimited charging to one 30’ session per day AND charge them an escalating idle fee if they don’t unplug within 10’.

 

[hmp10]

The locations should also be designed better. For a 4 charger location, 8 parking spots should be allocated. When a location is full you drive around to the other side of the charger (facing its back) so when the other car is finished you're ready to take the cable and plug in. Avoids people fighting or figuring out who's next in line.

The only problem is that you might not know which charger will be the next to free up, so you wouldn't know which empty space to take. It's like check-out lines. The most efficient ones are those where a single line forms at the entrance to the check out area, and the person at the front of the line goes to whichever cashier opens up first. It's a better system than having to guess which cashier to line up for and then watching the long line you avoided begin to move faster than the line you're in, with later arrivals getting to a register before you.

However, when charging stations are in busy parking lots, such as Wal-Marts and strip malls, there should be some parking spaces across from the charging stations allocated for people waiting to charge. We've recently been to some busy Tesla Superchargers where cars waiting for a charging post have no place to park within view of the chargers, and they take up positions in the driving lanes or circle the lot (where they cannot hold their place in line).

Very little thought has been put in even by Tesla -- and much less by other charging services -- about the logistics of charging or waiting to charge as EV traffic grows. The thought process is still too anchored in the gas station model and its much faster turnover rate.

 

[DRWHO42]

I completely agree with him.

I also agree with pretty much everything he said and it was very informative.