For some perspective (I learned something as well)

[AGTRAIN]

I read the thread about Lucid’s production progress, frustrations, etc. Very passionate topic. So I looked up how many cars Tesla made in each of its first years. Here’s what i found (I can’t be certain this is completely accurate but believe it is close):
2010 — 500
2011 — 940
2012 — 2,670
2013 — 22,442
2014 — 31,655
I’ll stop here. I’m planning to buy a GT and am nevertheless a Tesla admirer. So excluding their formative years before going public it took Tesla 4 years to get to the 20k mark. Lucid just went public last year, as we all know, and it seems likely they’ll hit the 20k mark next year. That doesn’t look bad in comparison to me. Of course, I don’t remember what Tesla was promising about production volumes in those early years; others can chime in on that. Maybe expectations are rightfully different today for reasons I don’t understand, but I’m learning more about the sheer length of time that is needed for a startup to get rolling. Interested to hear your reactions.

 

[MoniputerLM]

I don't think that comparisons to Tesla, other than current production cars, should be excuses for Lucid or any of the EV startups. They should have learned from Tesla's history and not repeated the mistakes. I can give Tesla a pass on a lot of things because there is a lot of technology that they had to invent/perfect to get cars out the door.

 

[hydbob]

Are we forgetting that it's been less than a year since their factory has been commissioned to produce customer cars?

 

[Sandvinsd]

I don't think that comparisons to Tesla, other than current production cars, should be excuses for Lucid or any of the EV startups. They should have learned from Tesla's history and not repeated the mistakes. I can give Tesla a pass on a lot of things because there is a lot of technology that they had to invent/perfect to get cars out the door.

Tesla went through what Elon described as production hell those first few years. I have always disliked Musk’s statements as he over promises and under delivers. Nonetheless, He said publicly that companies like Lucid would experience it as it is easy to make prototypes but difficult to build and deliver. Peter scoffed at that, saying production he’ll was only because they didn’t plan properly. I have a question for Peter, do you think you are in production hell now? Elon was right for once. Paint harmony is a bitch, especially with only one paint shop, isn’t it? Lucid is unfortunately making the same mistakes in their factories. I mean Tahoe doors and Mojave seats ? Didn’t have your paint recipes worked out before starting manufacturing? Lucid is also not communicating well and when they do, they overpromise and under deliver like Elon.

However, they will eventually get it together, if not, because of their IP, they will become a luxury brand nameplate for a legacy automaker. I love the car, the design and the technology that went into it (but currently not the software). just wish they could deliver what they promise.

 

[MoniputerLM]

Are we forgetting that it's been less than a year since their factory has been commissioned to produce customer cars?

Why do I care? I spent $169,000 for a car. If the factory wasn't ready then they should have waited.

 

[borski]

Why do I care? I spent $169,000 for a car. If the factory wasn't ready then they should have waited.

A friend bought the original Tesla Roadster for $175,000 back when Tesla first launched - that was when they would say "pay us $175k and we'll make it however you'd like; stripes, specific woods, anything". It was an incredible car, especially for it's time, since it was basically an EV Lotus Elise, but had plenty of its fair share of problems.

You bought in early for a first-run vehicle with a first-run company. There was no chance it was going to be as seamless as buying a Ford. But for that risk, you do get benefits: early access to the highest HP / trim Lucid is planning to produce to date, an exclusive interior, etc.

If you thought it was riskless, I think perhaps your expectations were poorly set - possibly that's Lucid's fault, but worth considering!

 

[Crdgk]

Why do I care? I spent $169,000 for a car. If the factory wasn't ready then they should have waited.

Other way around. Knowing it was a new production car from a new company, knowing what Tesla went through, why would you buy one of the first 500 cars? I look forward to getting my Grand Touring tomorrow knowing it wont be perfect. But they will iterate, they have already made much progress. And you can fix software over time. But my wife’s 2019 Tesla M3 interior still looks like spartan and is not comfortable for me. That will never change. You can always sell your DE though.

 

[MoniputerLM]

Other way around. Knowing it was a new production car from a new company, knowing what Tesla went through, why would you buy one of the first 500 cars? I look forward to getting my Grand Touring tomorrow knowing it wont be perfect. But they will iterate, they have already made much progress. And you can fix software over time. But my wife’s 2019 Tesla M3 interior still looks like spartan and is not comfortable for me. That will never change. You can always sell your DE though.

I did not expect nor was I told that the car had barely functional software when I picked it up on 12/31/2021. Lucid was in a hurry to "deliver cars by the end of 2021". They knew that the software was not ready. They should have waited until the end of March to ship cars.

 

[Val88]

I did not expect nor was I told that the car had barely functional software when I picked it up on 12/31/2021. Lucid was in a hurry to "deliver cars by the end of 2021". They knew that the software was not ready. They should have waited until the end of March to ship cars.

Then maybe you didn't do your due diligence in your research on said $170k.
Sorry but you come off sounding entitled and not liking the fact that you can't show off your car and it's getting to you.
There is no reason to believe that there would not be significant delays here and there for a new car company that went public in the pandemic. This isn't a new cell phone company. You do know that the first ones also = the first production tester.

 

[CLTGT]

I am sorry. I just could not sit back and let all of this bashing keep going on without reminding everyone of a very important point. Lucid/Peter Rawlinson set these expectations higher than they might otherwise have been for a newly introduced Company in a very material way. He delayed the introduction of the car for six months to, in his own words, "get the car right" based on the advice of some of his soon to be investors (part of the SPAC deal). I was a bit surprised based on they material and fundamental nature of some of the shortcomings in software just based on this. How bad was the car a year ago? What the **** were they doing in those extra six months? It wasn't like the car did not exist. He made the comments while driving around NY (I believe it was NY) in the car. He was making videos at the same time about how great the car was to drive. The software appears to be at a point where is might be "workable" and where some might have expected it to be at introduction, not six months later. I really cannot opine on the actual software as the Company has yet to assign a VIN for a grey car, let alone deliver one. And for all of those who love to jump on the supply chain wagon or state how everyone else is having delays, this delay, according to my DA/others at Lucid has NOTHING to do with supply chain or what other people are doing. It has everything to do with the Harmonization Process taking longer and being more difficult than they anticipated. Had this process gone according to plan, grey cars would be parked in people's driveways by now. Quit giving Lucid a pass on this and state it as it is. There is no excuse other than the process for grey is giving Lucid a challenge, one they really should have figured out earlier in my opinion. Software is and has been a challenge that they continue to improve upon. I hope they make giant leaps in the near future. It does nothing to answer the question of "how bad was it when they were originally talking about launching the car and what did they really get done in the extra six months".

@MoniputerLM has every right to have the expectations he has. Everyone purchased the DE sight unseen. No amount of due diligence could have revealed the extent of the software shortcomings short of sneaking into the factory and playing around with it. In fact, any due diligence would have revealed that Peter delayed the car six months "to get the car right".

It does Lucid no good not to hear this and think everyone is going to settle and give them a pass. They need to hear the truth and be held accountable in order to reach where we all think they can. Some might give them a pass (in the short term, but not forever), but a vast majority will not and they need to mass market this car and convince those of us that have never purchased an EV and can afford to purchase whatever the hell we want some comfort that they know what they are doing and can compete with the Mercedes S Class as that is the benchmark Peter set, not Tesla or anybody/anything else. They need EV newcomers to purchase in droves for Lucid to be successful long term. There are too many alternatives coming out in the next few years for Lucid to rely on customers "settling" for too long.


Oh yea, sorry to those who have read this from me before. It was primarily in response to those who don't necessarily understand or respect @MoniputerLM 's position. I understand it fully if there was any question.

 

[hydbob]

I am sorry. I just could not sit back and let all of this bashing keep going on without reminding everyone of a very important point. Lucid/Peter Rawlinson set these expectations higher than they might otherwise have been for a newly introduced Company in a very material way. He delayed the introduction of the car for six months to, in his own words, "get the car right" based on the advice of some of his soon to be investors (part of the SPAC deal). I was a bit surprised based on they material and fundamental nature of some of the shortcomings in software just based on this. How bad was the car a year ago? What the **** were they doing in those extra six months? It wasn't like the car did not exist. He made the comments while driving around NY (I believe it was NY) in the car. He was making videos at the same time about how great the car was to drive. The software appears to be at a point where is might be "workable" and where some might have expected it to be at introduction, not six months later. I really cannot opine on the actual software as the Company has yet to assign a VIN for a grey car, let alone deliver one. And for all of those who love to jump on the supply chain wagon or state how everyone else is having delays, this delay, according to my DA/others at Lucid has NOTHING to do with supply chain or what other people are doing. It has everything to do with the Harmonization Process taking longer and being more difficult than they anticipated. Had this process gone according to plan, grey cars would be parked in people's driveways by now. Quit giving Lucid a pass on this and state it as it is. There is no excuse other than the process for grey is giving Lucid a challenge, one they really should have figured out earlier in my opinion. Software is and has been a challenge that they continue to improve upon. I hope they make giant leaps in the near future. It does nothing to answer the question of "how bad was it when they were originally talking about launching the car and what did they really get done in the extra six months".

@MoniputerLM has every right to have the expectations he has. Everyone purchased the DE sight unseen. No amount of due diligence could have revealed the extent of the software shortcomings short of sneaking into the factory and playing around with it. In fact, any due diligence would have revealed that Peter delayed the car six months "to get the car right".

That's not true. DE purchasers were not forced to buy the car sight unseen. Many of us said we would not purchase the car without sitting in it, I even specified without a test drive I would not move forward and I was given one.

Again, though, a test drive would not have revealed any information with regards to homelink, ingress/egress, radio issues, etc.

As for getting the car right, I remember in some of those videos/interviews he only ever talks about how the car drives no? He was acutely aware of fine tuning the handling of the vehicle. I don't think he ever mentioned anything about the software side.

 

[CLTGT]

You have no idea what he was referring to and neither do I. The fact is they had six extra months to do whatever it was they needed to do. Yes, he was talking about how the car was to drive, which might lead some to think the hardware did not need as much work. Either way, they are separate areas. I doubt programmers are out there testing suspensions. Those working on the software had the same extra six months as those working on the hardware. If Peter spent all that time driving around in the car, he had to know where the software was. He is CEO last I checked and the buck stops with him, the hardware buck...and the software buck.

Sitting in a car is not extensive due diligence. How many people in the test drives even locked or unlocked the car of a DE before purchase? How many took them home to use the Homelink? How many really even tested out the stereo to an extent. The point is, due diligence was very limited as you attest. @MoniputerLM 's complaints are relevant. To dismiss them and just say he should have expected what was delivered and he did poor due diligence seems shortsighted.

Trivializing and settling will not force Lucid to make this car what we all hope and expect it can be and they know that. That being said, we all must drive them forward to ultimately and as quickly as possible produce a product that can compete with the brands/models that Peter/Lucid wants to compete with. They do not have an unlimited amount of time to get this right and all of us should be pushing them to do so as none of us want to be thrown into the DeLorean heap.

If you want to keep making excuses for them, go ahead. At some point, it really just does more harm than good. I've said my piece.

 

[PhotoEye]

Ok, then. Happy Friday, Everyone!

 

[AGTRAIN]

You have no idea what he was referring to and neither do I. The fact is they had six extra months to do whatever it was they needed to do. Yes, he was talking about how the car was to drive, which might lead some to think the hardware did not need as much work. Either way, they are separate areas. I doubt programmers are out there testing suspensions. Those working on the software had the same extra six months as those working on the hardware. If Peter spent all that time driving around in the car, he had to know where the software was. He is CEO last I checked and the buck stops with him, the hardware buck...and the software buck.

Sitting in a car is not extensive due diligence. How many people in the test drives even locked or unlocked the car of a DE before purchase? How many took them home to use the Homelink? How many really even tested out the stereo to an extent. The point is, due diligence was very limited as you attest. @MoniputerLM 's complaints are relevant. To dismiss them and just say he should have expected what was delivered and he did poor due diligence seems shortsighted.

Trivializing and settling will not force Lucid to make this car what we all hope and expect it can be and they know that. That being said, we all must drive them forward to ultimately and as quickly as possible produce a product that can compete with the brands/models that Peter/Lucid wants to compete with. They do not have an unlimited amount of time to get this right and all of us should be pushing them to do so as none of us want to be thrown into the DeLorean heap.

If you want to keep making excuses for them, go ahead. At some point, it really just does more harm than good. I've said my piece.

If i put my pro Lucid bias aside and my managerial hat on, I have to agree with much of what you say here. I’m glad you are still posting. I have often said there is a fine line between a statement of values and empty rhetoric. Every company’s management must be aware of that line and wary of slipping into empty rhetoric. It’s easy to say, for example, “we are customer centric” but practicing that day in and day out is hard. And customers are smart — they will figure out when a company no longer means or practices what it says. I’m not saying that’s where Lucid is; I still think they have every intention of making things right. And getting to that point will be helped along by the healthy tension that constructive customer feedback brings to the table. Which is why I was so heartened to see the Lucid person (Len?) post on this forum. Every company, doctor, banker, builder, school needs healthy pushing by their customers, and a willingness to listen.

 

[hydbob]

You have no idea what he was referring to and neither do I. The fact is they had six extra months to do whatever it was they needed to do. Yes, he was talking about how the car was to drive, which might lead some

I agree, was just merely trying to correct the record of DE buyers buying the car sight unseen.

 

[CLTGT]

Funny thing is, the people I have spoken with at Lucid seem to appreciate it as well. But, that being said, there are still many here who would rather not hear what I have to say(not talking about you, @hydbob). I should have stayed away. C Ya.

 

[hydbob]

Funny thing is, the people I have spoken with at Lucid seem to appreciate it as well. But, that being said, there are still many here who would rather not hear what I have to say(not talking about you, @hydbob). I should have stayed away. C Ya.

Oh yea everyone you ever talk to from Lucid want open and honest feedback. Maybe you need to be like

 

[SDHacker]

I did not expect nor was I told that the car had barely functional software when I picked it up on 12/31/2021

Totally agree. The software for ADAS/Infotainment was either nonexistent or embryonic. Only the software involved in driving/handling was mature enough for production. Just getting into the car could be a challenge according to posts.

As @hydbob pointed out, a test drive wouldn't reveal most of what @MoniputerLM has posted are shortcomings with the Air. When I test drove the GT, unlocking was handled by using the keycard so no remote sensing issues. I was focused on hearing and feeling any NVH so didn't bother with the infotainment system. Can't judge miles per kW during a short test drive where the employee is encouraging you to punch it on the freeway and you're taking turns faster than you might normally in your own car.

If people like @Bill55 didn't tell Lucid what they need to improve and what our priorities are, don't know where we would be. On the Lucid youtube channel, they show short interviews with employees and one of the team leads in software talked about hearing from customers that bootup was taking too long so they put a project together to look at that.

Hey @MoniputerLM, has your efficiency improved from that post where it was cold and it sucked? Did you get an employee to test drive with you?

 

[hydbob]

Totally agree. The software for ADAS/Infotainment was either nonexistent or embryonic. Only the software involved in driving/handling was mature enough for production. Just getting into the car could be a challenge according to posts.

As @hydbob pointed out, a test drive wouldn't reveal most of what @MoniputerLM has posted are shortcomings with the Air. When I test drove the GT, unlocking was handled by using the keycard so no remote sensing issues. I was focused on hearing and feeling any NVH so didn't bother with the infotainment system. Can't judge miles per kW during a short test drive where the employee is encouraging you to punch it on the freeway and you're taking turns faster than you might normally in your own car.

If people like @Bill55 didn't tell Lucid what they need to improve and what our priorities are, don't know where we would be. On the Lucid youtube channel, they show short interviews with employees and one of the team leads in software talked about hearing from customers that bootup was taking too long so they put a project together to look at that.

Hey @MoniputerLM, has your efficiency improved from that post where it was cold and it sucked? Did you get an employee to test drive with you?

It's kind of funny and maybe it will be revealed in the future, but the software they showcased at the factory is still slightly ahead of where we are currently especially with regards to the ADAS system. During the commissioning event, highway assist was active (my father and I both tested it) and working just like Tesla's AP. I was surprised it wasn't released when I picked my car up, so there had to have been something holding it back from public release (regulatory perhaps?).

 

[borski]

Funny thing is, the people I have spoken with at Lucid seem to appreciate it as well. But, that being said, there are still many here who would rather not hear what I have to say(not talking about you, @hydbob). I should have stayed away. C Ya.

Your complaints are valid, and I'm glad you are here saying what you have to say. My issue has never been one of what you're saying but rather how you're saying it. When making assumptions, I try to state, very clearly, that they are assumptions. There isn't anything wrong with making assumptions, but we need to be talking about the same thing, at the end of the day.

Given that the driving dynamics / hardware are fantastic by all reports (including my own), I think it would be a safe assumption to make that Peter was referring to that when he was talking about "getting it right," as software can be shipped over the air and updated over time. How bad was the software prior to that? I have no idea. Probably pretty damn bad.