Fastest EV Charging Study

[Genghis]

Published by P3, the GT came out on top. Interesting read for those who are curious about the charging curves and fastest charging in the charging windows 10-80. Full publication of the study here.

https://www.p3-group.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/P3CI-US23_Report.pdf

 

[Halodde]

That's pretty cool. Thanks for posting. I hope they test the Touring and Pure, too. If they are going to test different Tesla models, they should do the same with Lucid. I have charged over 100 miles of range in 10 minutes in my Touring, so it would have to be competitive with the 3 and Y.

 

[DeaneG]

Great study.

 

[Adnillien]

The charging curves really show that Lucid can improve if they can flatten the curve up to about 50% SOC. Even with the constant tapper in the charging curve, the AGT still was top.

 

[Boomer AZ]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

 

[DeaneG]

The philosophical difference between Lucid's curve and Kia/Hyundai is pretty striking. Lucid didn't need to push the batteries to achieve a high rate of miles returned per minute of charging. Kia/Hyundai did.

 

[Adnillien]

The philosophical difference between Lucid's curve and Kia/Hyundai is pretty striking. Lucid didn't need to push the batteries to achieve a high rate of miles returned per minute of charging. Kia/Hyundai did.

I agree Lucid did not need to push the curve to have the fastest charging EV. That said, the flatter curve below 50% SOC is common. If Lucid can flatten the curve without degrading battery life, it would make our cars that much better. I hope that Lucid will do this as they gather more data and history on their batteries.

 

[Genghis]

That charging curve was exactly what I experienced this weekend at a 150kW EA station. At 14% SOC, it was drawing steady 146 until it hit about 72% SOC. Then it dropped fast to about 80 when I stopped. I was charging next to an EQS who started her charge at 21% SOC about 10 min into her charge. My session was 34 min, and she had hit just 71% when I looked over.

 

[Halodde]

That charging curve was exactly what I experienced this weekend at a 150kW EA station. At 14% SOC, it was drawing steady 146 until it hit about 72% SOC. Then it dropped fast to about 80 when I stopped. I was charging next to an EQS who started her charge at 21% SOC about 10 min into her charge. My session was 34 min, and she had hit just 71% when I looked over.

I'm not sure if I follow. The blue Lucid curve in the first graph drops pretty continuously from about 250 as SOC increases down to ~100 kW at about 70%. But you experienced a flat and steady 146 kW until 72% SOC?

 

[Genghis]

I'm not sure if I follow. The blue Lucid curve in the first graph drops pretty continuously from about 250 as SOC increases down to ~100 kW at about 70%. But you experienced a flat and steady 146 kW until 72% SOC?

It was a 150 kW station so it can put out max 150 even though a few here reported higher. So my charge started at 146 @14% SOC and stayed there until I hit 72%. The remaining 8% to 80% was the only time I saw the drop to 80 kW which is in line with the published curve.

 

[Halodde]

That's fantastic. That's better than the curve for the GT they tested. I just charged on a 350 and I was well below 80 by the time I got to 70% SOC in my touring

 

[hydbob]

Just remember, the charging speed slows partly due to heat, so faster initial charge will heat the pack up faster than a steady slower charge.

 

[Andretex]

This is a great study and in line with the chart I saw on my first 350kw charging experience. However, Kia and Porsche have it pushing harder (they must be assuming the battery is not degraded faster). It would be great is Lucid could maintain a 250+ for the first 45 or 50%. By the time I got to 50% Soc it was charging at about 125kw. The chart below is similar.

However, Based on simple math, if lucid stayed at 250 until 45% Soc it would charge to 45% from 5% Soc faster by about only 3 or 4 minutes. I guess if this curve is better for the battery then it is worth it. Do you think Lucid engineers are smarter? Or more conservative?

 

[Tay Chi]

This is a great study and in line with the chart I saw on my first 350kw charging experience. However, Kia and Porsche have it pushing harder (they must be assuming the battery is not degraded faster). It would be great is Lucid could maintain a 250+ for the first 45 or 50%. By the time I got to 50% Soc it was charging at about 125kw. The chart below is similar.

However, Based on simple math, if lucid stayed at 250 until 45% Soc it would charge to 45% from 5% Soc faster by about only 3 or 4 minutes. I guess if this curve is better for the battery then it is worth it. Do you think Lucid engineers are smarter? Or more conservative?

View attachment 14908

I think it has more to do with thermal management. I would love for Lucid to match those curves if it can!

Maybe algorithm can be changed through software update once the engineers analyze real car data. Taycan did get a tweak a while back.

 

[Andretex]

Are you saying the Taycan curve was like Lucids in the past and then the engineers changed it? Do you know what the curve looked like before?

 

[Andretex]

Here is the charge curve of Taycan done in 2020. So maybe they improved it a bit since then. But it still stayed high until about 25%.

 

[hydbob]

Lucid has way more experience with BMS than either of these companies. The charging curve makes sense for consumers but not for longevity. I trust them to do what they think is best.

 

[borski]

Lucid has way more experience with BMS than either of these companies. The charging curve makes sense for consumers but not for longevity. I trust them to do what they think is best.

This. Given all of their experience with BMS for Formula E, I'm more than willing to believe they've seen their motors and batteries ridden harder and faster, and are being conservative for good reason.

I can certainly guarantee they do not want you charging any slower than you need to. They will likely adjust the curve over time.

 

[chinesejpl]

one of the things not taken into account in this study is that P3 used the EPA consumption values which often do not reflect "real world". For instance, over 12k miles on my AGT I would say, on average, my "distance driven" is about 80% of the "decrease in mileage/range" shown on my car. A bit higher when I try to conserve the battery (upto 90-95%) but much less when it is cold, I have to use the AC or drive 70mph or faster. What this effectively does is reduce the 208 miles added in 20min to about 166mi. With the Taycan, it has been reported that it over delivers on mileage by 10-20% in "real world" testing so actually the Taycan would score overall higher than the lucid because it charges faster.

Overall, I am a bit disappointed that the lucid doesn't charge as fast as advertised and doesn't hold that >200kw speeds for very long. I think the DE cars had different charging curves which seemed to have faster charging than my AGT and upon which I based my AGT purchase on.

 

[eLUCID8]

Thanks for posting. Very interesting to see the data which roughly matches what I’ve experienced.

I didn’t read the whole article but I’m a bit confused by the consumption numbers. Wouldn’t that depend on wheel size? I didn’t see it listed for the AGT but maybe I missed it. Also, they state EPA consumption of 26 kWh per 100 mi for the AGT, but wouldn’t that equate to a total range of 430 miles with a 112 kWh battery? Seems like less than the EPA range for any AGT wheel size. Am I misinterpreting what the 26 kWh per 100 miles figure represents?