Dream Drive 2????

[hydbob]

Really? You’d pay $10k for rear cross traffic protection? Pretty sure that’s a standard feature on most cars including base dream drive.

Yes I guess. Super quick search because Tesla shows they don't have those as safety features?

Active Safety Features
Active safety features come standard on all Tesla vehicles made after September 2014 for elevated protection at all times. These features are made possible by our Autopilot hardware and software system and include:

• Automatic Emergency Braking: Detects cars or obstacles that the vehicle may impact and applies the brakes accordingly
• Forward Collision Warning: Warns of impending collisions with slower moving or stationary vehicles
• Side Collision Warning: Warns of potential collisions with obstacles alongside the vehicle
• Obstacle Aware Acceleration: Automatically reduces acceleration when an obstacle is detected in front of your vehicle while driving at low speeds
• Blind Spot Monitoring: Warns when a vehicle or obstacle is detected when changing lanes
• Lane Departure Avoidance: Applies corrective steering to keep your vehicle in the intended lane
• Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance: Steers your vehicle back into the driving lane when it detects that your vehicle is departing its lane and there could be a collision

Active safety features are designed to assist drivers, but cannot respond in every situation. It is your responsibility to stay alert, drive safely and be in control of your vehicle at all times.

 

[hydbob]

Quite the contrary.

> I am a big fan of all these safety features being deployed on new automobiles. I love it!
> No, my 2017 Lexus does not have rear pedestrian detection. And neither the Lexus nor my Rivian tells me what type shoes the rear pedestrian wears. Yet, with the 360 view (which, as you know, is a composite) and rear camera views, I feel perfectly safe to back out of any parking space without killing anyone.

My points are very simple:

> ADAS is an important technology that will be deployed widely on all vehicles (someday), like safety belts.
> There will be emerging standards and regulations.
>There will be a handful of ADAS supplier that will dominate the market. Some potential candidates are like Mobileye, spin offs from Ford, GM, MB, Bosch, Magna, and maybe Rivian/VW etc..
> There will likely be several levels of sophistication depending on the sensors and data-processing power. The computer running the ADAS should be independent of the other car functions.
> In my mind, the ADAS functions need some standard interfaces to the car like connections to the motors, brakes, steering wheel, cameras, etc.. Done properly, the ADAS connection to the car should not be intrusive.
> the DA/SD functions will be integrated with map and traffic data as well as local sensors (cameras, LIDAR, etc.) on the car.
> on major highways, there will be transponders and updates to the car regarding traffic, road conditions, weather, detours, accidents, etc..
> in the end, only a couple of major ADAS players will dominate. Think of it as CarPlay and AA.

As the eco-system evolves, there is no room for small players like Lucid to develop their own solutions. Lucid is better off partnering with the industry leaders.

Yes, there will likely be different level of sophistication and price points.

Lucid is already using NVIDIA as a partner in ADAS though...

 

[EZEVDriver]

Yea. When I first started researching Lucid back in 2023, when I say the $8 or $9k pricing for DDP, I knew that was going to end the same way Tesla’s FSD scam did. I didn’t pay for it when I got my Touring. But if someone decided that it was worth it for a lidar unit strapped to the bumper, then they shouldn’t complain, they chose it.

If I were getting a Lucid NOW however, I probably would pay $2500 for DDP. Even with the current feature set, I think lane keeping and automatic lane changes would be worth $2500 to me.

Yeah, I didn't buy FSD when it was offered at 2k at one point for owners of Enhanced Autopilot because I had all the highway assist that I needed. I cancelled my DDPro order at the last minute because I was concerned about rollout time - and I thought that base DD had lane centering thanks to unclear promotional videos from Lucid and a salesperson or two. But I did get DD Premium and I do want lane centering, so a realistically priced upgrade path would be something that would interest me.

Even so, the car drives really well and the slight tugs on the steering wheel to keep the car centered in its lane don't really bother me, any more than the proof-of-life tugs on my Tesla do.

 

[momo3605]

P

Yes I guess. Super quick search because Tesla shows they don't have those as safety features?

Active Safety Features
Active safety features come standard on all Tesla vehicles made after September 2014 for elevated protection at all times. These features are made possible by our Autopilot hardware and software system and include:

• Automatic Emergency Braking: Detects cars or obstacles that the vehicle may impact and applies the brakes accordingly
• Forward Collision Warning: Warns of impending collisions with slower moving or stationary vehicles
• Side Collision Warning: Warns of potential collisions with obstacles alongside the vehicle
• Obstacle Aware Acceleration: Automatically reduces acceleration when an obstacle is detected in front of your vehicle while driving at low speeds
• Blind Spot Monitoring: Warns when a vehicle or obstacle is detected when changing lanes
• Lane Departure Avoidance: Applies corrective steering to keep your vehicle in the intended lane
• Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance: Steers your vehicle back into the driving lane when it detects that your vehicle is departing its lane and there could be a collision

Active safety features are designed to assist drivers, but cannot respond in every situation. It is your responsibility to stay alert, drive safely and be in control of your vehicle at all times.

nah They do. But not only Tesla, but Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Lucid, etc all have it standard as well. I guess it’s your money, but if something is free, I wouldn’t pay $10k for it

 

[BS8899]

Lucid is already using NVIDIA as a partner in ADAS though...

I am not familiar with what Lucid is doing with Nvidia.

My point is, Lucid should buy the entire, validated and certified ADAS solution, sensors, chips, algorithm, etc. from an accredited supplier as a turn-key solution, and connect it with Lucid's drive platform. Lucid is too small to tackle ADAS on their own.

If you look at something like maps, navigation, points-of-interest, the current instantiation on my Lucid AGT (HERE map based) is fundamentally useless. It is slow, inaccurate, and a wasted effort. Most US drivers use either Google maps or Apple. Why waste time and money on these things? Lucid should focus on the drive train and cabin. That's their value-add.

 

[segbrk]

My point is, Lucid should buy the entire, validated and certified ADAS solution, sensors, chips, algorithm, etc. from an accredited supplier as a turn-key solution, and connect it with Lucid's drive platform. Lucid is too small to tackle ADAS on their own.

I don’t know how much this really exists. Everyone seems to be developing their own and mot licensing it. They are not doing it from scratch though, as hydbob said Lucid uses an ADAS platform (including software and hardware) from NVIDIA with standard off the shelf sensors made for ADAS. I’m sure it doesn’t do 100% of what they want, so they extend it and integrate extra pieces here and there. As far as I know this is what every auto maker is doing except maybe Tesla, who got into the “new ADAS” game early enough that some of these things weren’t available to them.

 

[BS8899]

I don’t know how much this really exists. Everyone seems to be developing their own and mot licensing it. They are not doing it from scratch though, as hydbob said Lucid uses an ADAS platform (including software and hardware) from NVIDIA with standard off the shelf sensors made for ADAS. I’m sure it doesn’t do 100% of what they want, so they extend it and integrate extra pieces here and there. As far as I know this is what every auto maker is doing except maybe Tesla, who got into the “new ADAS” game early enough that some of these things weren’t available to them.

It is an evolving market. But the trend is towards turnkey packages.

Yes, it will take some time for the eco-system to fully develop.

Lucid is not exactly a SW power-house. They need to pursue a turnkey sol'n vs in-house development.

 

[momo3605]

I don’t know how much this really exists. Everyone seems to be developing their own and mot licensing it. They are not doing it from scratch though, as hydbob said Lucid uses an ADAS platform (including software and hardware) from NVIDIA with standard off the shelf sensors made for ADAS. I’m sure it doesn’t do 100% of what they want, so they extend it and integrate extra pieces here and there. As far as I know this is what every auto maker is doing except maybe Tesla, who got into the “new ADAS” game early enough that some of these things weren’t available to them.

Mobileye is a big one. And they've had products in the market since the first gen Model S.

Mobileye Solutions | From Driver Assistance to Self-Driving

Discover our full spectrum of solutions, from the driver-assistance systems in over 200 million vehicles today to the turnkey self-driving systems of tomorrow.

www.mobileye.com

They're providing ADAS features to Volvo/Polestar, VW, Zeekr, etc... today

 

[Negan1000]

Where did this come from?

Every time it rains the lidar is blocked.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Yes LiDAR is attenuated by rain but it does not give false signals. The main advantage of LiDAR over radar is the angular resolution giving it the ability to see smaller objects and distinguish multiple objects at a distance. The idea that LiDAR does not work in the rain is simply wrong.

Investigation of Automotive LiDAR Vision in Rain from Material and Optical Perspectives - PMC

With the emergence of autonomous functions in road vehicles, there has been increased use of Advanced Driver Assistance Systems comprising various sensors to perform automated tasks. Light Detection and Ranging (LiDAR) is one of the most important ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[momo3605]

Investigation of Automotive LiDAR Vision in Rain from Material and Optical Perspectives - PMC

With the emergence of autonomous functions in road vehicles, there has been increased use of Advanced Driver Assistance Systems comprising various sensors to perform automated tasks. Light Detection and Ranging (LiDAR) is one of the most important ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

LiDAR has its use cases. It does provide a much more precise 3D measurement than Cameras can can. I think Waymo has proven that it’s the ideal technology for self-driving.

That being said, a forward facing only Lidar like Polestar or Lucid is doing is i think overkill. Other OEMs, Supercuise, Bluecruise, autopilot, have proven that you can do a great L2 lane centering highway assist with cameras and radar alone. If you look at Polestar’s page on LiDAR, it’s equally lacking in details. It says it helps see more…ok so what? What features is that enabling. I don’t think anyone has an answer as to what these forward facing lidars will solve that cameras and radar can’t already do.

 

[BS8899]

LiDAR has its use cases. It does provide a much more precise 3D measurement than Cameras can can. I think Waymo has proven that it’s the ideal technology for self-driving.

That being said, a forward facing only Lidar like Polestar or Lucid is doing is i think overkill. Other OEMs, Supercuise, Bluecruise, autopilot, have proven that you can do a great L2 lane centering highway assist with cameras and radar alone. If you look at Polestar’s page on LiDAR, it’s equally lacking in details. It says it helps see more…ok so what? What features is that enabling. I don’t think anyone has an answer as to what these forward facing lidars will solve that cameras and radar can’t already do.

I am in the same space as momo3605.

Since I reside in Phoenix, I've seen self-driving cars with LIDAR roaming the streets for more than 10 years. And I have been in Waymos and am impressed with what they can do. Waymo's scanning LIDAR (presumably) can scan and range 3D maps of its surroundings. Overall, the technology is impressive.

But, that's not what Lucid, Polestar, and others are implementing. With some exceptions (see Kyle's China EV report), most of the current passenger car LIDAR implementations are small, front-facing linear arrays. Hence the question I've been posting...what is Lucid's LIDAR for? Ranging? Front topo mapping? How does it enhance the current ADAS?

I can easily see accurate ranging with Lucid's LIDAR. Beyond that, I wonder if it has the scope and computing power to do 2D/2.5D topo-mapping in "real-time" and collision avoidance. Perhaps it does....inquiring minds want to know.

 

[tonybot]

Rivian extensively discussed their autonomous platform during today's earnings call. They are doing hands-free in a few weeks and eyes-off early next year. Their system is based on cameras and five radars: four on all corners and one up front. They are doing inference on the car and using the data to train and further fine-tune their model offline. This end-to-end system is all in-house.

I'm not surprised if Lucid does not include LIDAR in the gravity. I hope Lucid will share more about their dream drive two during the upcoming earnings call.

 

[HC_79]

Rivian extensively discussed their autonomous platform during today's earnings call. They are doing hands-free in a few weeks and eyes-off early next year. Their system is based on cameras and five radars: four on all corners and one up front. They are doing inference on the car and using the data to train and further fine-tune their model offline. This end-to-end system is all in-house.

I'm not surprised if Lucid does not include LIDAR in the gravity. I hope Lucid will share more about their dream drive two during the upcoming earnings call.

Meanwhile, Lucid said hands free coming soon 6 months ago and where are we? *crickets*