Dream Drive 2????

[hmp10]

But for $10,000, the features that are currently on DDP . . . .

DreamDrive 2 Pro is $6,750 on the Gravity.

 

[hydbob]

To each his/her own! I am glad you are happy with paying $10k extra for DDP, I am not in that camp, not because I dislike DDP. But the slow roll-out, anemic features, and extra charge make Lucid non-competitive!

Difference in personal preferences aside, the real question for Lucid is whether they can continue to charge $10k for these "options" that are mostly standard on other cars.

My 2017 Lexus RX450H ($58k MSRP) had surround view, DA, etc.. My 2023 R1S ($72k after EV incentives) has more advanced DA than my AGT. It also has pedestrian info. And it has sentry mode. My $~$140k AGT (bought in Oct 2022) is less equipped in these areas.

Point is, I love of these DA/safety technologies. But the market has evolved. What once was considered gee-wiz features are now mostly standard (at least on the higher trims). Lucid's biz model and slow-motion roll out of these features and charging extra isn't going to cut it!

Does your 2017 Lexus have rear pedestrian alert or rear cross traffic protection? Has your car ever saved you from backing into another car or a person you missed? That's worth the $10k like I referenced. Again, you are soley focus on the self driving part to claim the tech isn't worth the money, obviously I completely disagree.

 

[pgh]

What are you talking about? Tesla updated the HW when it turned out the chips in the legacy S/X weren’t powerful enough. Everyone who has ever paid for FSD has access to the latest version of the software and continue to get continuous updates.

A better example actually is Rivian. They had an established roadmap for Driver+ in the R1 with hands free driving. Eventually it turned out the hardware wasn’t good enough and with the gen 2 R1T, they scrapped all development of Driver+ and its roadmap, and started over with new hardware (Rivian Autonomy Platform)

How many hardware versions of FSD are there? How many will be able to achieve "full self driving?" (Actually probably none of them, but the nomenclature is besides the point). But I would bet you a sizeable amount that early "legacy" Tesla S/X FSD will "top out" well before they've reached anyting close to what was promised.

That's also assuming you want to invest a couple thousand dollars into an old car to update to MCU2.

That's also assuming your car has the right cameras/camera configuration (some early models did not).

And that's assuming Tesla makes it a priority to bring older cars up to current capability, which they have been very slow to do over the years.

I wasn't aware of Rivian's issues (never seriously considered them, tbh) but yes that's a good example as well.

 

[hydbob]

What are you talking about? Tesla updated the HW when it turned out the chips in the legacy S/X weren’t powerful enough. Everyone who has ever paid for FSD has access to the latest version of the software and continue to get continuous updates.

A better example actually is Rivian. They had an established roadmap for Driver+ in the R1 with hands free driving. Eventually it turned out the hardware wasn’t good enough and with the gen 2 R1T, they scrapped all development of Driver+ and its roadmap, and started over with new hardware (Rivian Autonomy Platform)

Didn't those upgrades cost money? I'm fairly certain they were not free updates to hardware to get access to the latest FSD software?

 

[DrZorro]

Are we even 100% sure that DD2 is actually different hardware from DD1 in the current Air (or not backwards compatible on old hardware)? I don't know that current Airs won't get a software push and become "DD2". It could simply be a rebranded and improved software update like UX1 to UX2...and don't forget the new UX on the Gravity will probably get translated to the Air at some point.

 

[HC_79]

Are we even 100% sure that DD2 is actually different hardware from DD1 in the current Air (or not backwards compatible on old hardware)? I don't know that current Airs won't get a software push and become "DD2". It could simply be a rebranded and improved software update like UX1 to UX2...and don't forget the new UX on the Gravity will probably get translated to the Air at some point.

Who knows, not like Lucid likes to keep its owners updated with communication.

 

[BS8899]

Does your 2017 Lexus have rear pedestrian alert or rear cross traffic protection? Has your car ever saved you from backing into another car or a person you missed? That's worth the $10k like I referenced. Again, you are soley focus on the self driving part to claim the tech isn't worth the money, obviously I completely disagree.

Quite the contrary.

> I am a big fan of all these safety features being deployed on new automobiles. I love it!
> No, my 2017 Lexus does not have rear pedestrian detection. And neither the Lexus nor my Rivian tells me what type shoes the rear pedestrian wears. Yet, with the 360 view (which, as you know, is a composite) and rear camera views, I feel perfectly safe to back out of any parking space without killing anyone.

My points are very simple:

> ADAS is an important technology that will be deployed widely on all vehicles (someday), like safety belts.
> There will be emerging standards and regulations.
>There will be a handful of ADAS supplier that will dominate the market. Some potential candidates are like Mobileye, spin offs from Ford, GM, MB, Bosch, Magna, and maybe Rivian/VW etc..
> There will likely be several levels of sophistication depending on the sensors and data-processing power. The computer running the ADAS should be independent of the other car functions.
> In my mind, the ADAS functions need some standard interfaces to the car like connections to the motors, brakes, steering wheel, cameras, etc.. Done properly, the ADAS connection to the car should not be intrusive.
> the DA/SD functions will be integrated with map and traffic data as well as local sensors (cameras, LIDAR, etc.) on the car.
> on major highways, there will be transponders and updates to the car regarding traffic, road conditions, weather, detours, accidents, etc..
> in the end, only a couple of major ADAS players will dominate. Think of it as CarPlay and AA.

As the eco-system evolves, there is no room for small players like Lucid to develop their own solutions. Lucid is better off partnering with the industry leaders.

Yes, there will likely be different level of sophistication and price points.

 

[BS8899]

Where did this come from?

@Negen1000 should answer your question.

That said, LIDAR is affected by rain. I presume that can cause false readings. My Lucid LIDAR alerts me every time it rains.

 

[hmp10]

That said, LIDAR is affected by rain. I presume that can cause false readings. My Lucid LIDAR alerts me every time it rains.

That's odd. I live in South Florida where we have torrential seasonal rains. I've gotten the blocked LIDAR warning no more than 3-4 times in over three years of driving an Air.

Maybe your LIDAR unit is out of calibration or otherwise malfunctioning?

 

[BS8899]

That's odd. I live in South Florida where we have torrential seasonal rains. I've gotten the blocked LIDAR warning no more than 3-4 times in over three years of driving an Air.

Maybe your LIDAR unit is out of calibration or otherwise malfunctioning?

I live in Arizona. It hardly every rains. But, when it rains, the LIDAR sensors sends alerts. My understanding is that the water droplets can absorb/scatter the IR. I don't think my LIDAR is defective. I always wonder what the LIDAR actual does on the Lucid. So, when it rains and the Lucid sends an error message from the LIDAR, I was assured that the LIDAR sensers are actually working....but I don't know for what?!

 

[hmp10]

I live in Arizona. It hardly every rains. But, when it rains, the LIDAR sensors sends alerts. My understanding is that the water droplets can absorb/scatter the IR. I don't think my LIDAR is defective. I always wonder what the LIDAR actual does on the Lucid. So, when it rains and the Lucid sends an error message from the LIDAR, I was assured that the LIDAR sensers are actually working....but I don't know for what?!

Radar and LIDAR can both measure distances, but the shorter wavelength of LIDAR makes it more accurate. While radar can resolve distances within a few meters at 100 meters, LIDAR can resolve distances down to a few centimeters at 100 meters.

It's not exactly a major feature, but one of the things I've noticed in our Air is that when backing toward an object, I get a camera image displayed and a warning sound at a certain distance. But when I pull forward toward an object, I get a camera image plus a display of the distance in inches. (I have measured this distance in my garage and found it to be very accurate.) I suspect this exact measurement when pulling forward is coming from the LIDAR unit mounted on the front fascia -- a measurement I don't get when backing up where there is no LIDAR sensor.

 

[momo3605]

Didn't those upgrades cost money? I'm fairly certain they were not free updates to hardware to get access to the latest FSD software?

Yup! Free updates to hardware if you purchased FSD. And it still applies…if you buy an old 2016+ Tesla with the 8 camera suite, you can buy FSD, and then take it in to a service center, and they’ll upgrade it to the latest FSD computer.

 

[Adnillien]

@Negen1000 should answer your question.

That said, LIDAR is affected by rain. I presume that can cause false readings. My Lucid LIDAR alerts me every time it rains.

Yes LiDAR is attenuated by rain but it does not give false signals. The main advantage of LiDAR over radar is the angular resolution giving it the ability to see smaller objects and distinguish multiple objects at a distance. The idea that LiDAR does not work in the rain is simply wrong.

 

[momo3605]

To each his/her own! I am glad you are happy with paying $10k extra for DDP, I am not in that camp, not because I dislike DDP. But the slow roll-out, anemic features, and extra charge make Lucid non-competitive!

Difference in personal preferences aside, the real question for Lucid is whether they can continue to charge $10k for these "options" that are mostly standard on other cars.

I agree that the original pricing for DDP was unacceptable especially given how much bad brand equity Tesla got from doing the same thing and charging $8-$12k for FSD without a product for many years.

But if you look at the Air configurator now, DDP is a $2500 option, which is not as egregious and in line with other luxury cars. I think BMW, GM, Ford all charge in the neighborhood of ~$2-3k for hands-free.

Also don’t forget many of the OG crew here have DEs and GT-P in the early days when DDP was standard/included. So I don’t think you’ll see many complaints from those groups

 

[momo3605]

Does your 2017 Lexus have rear pedestrian alert or rear cross traffic protection? Has your car ever saved you from backing into another car or a person you missed? That's worth the $10k like I referenced. Again, you are soley focus on the self driving part to claim the tech isn't worth the money, obviously I completely disagree.

Really? You’d pay $10k for rear cross traffic protection? Pretty sure that’s a standard feature on most cars including base dream drive.

 

[HC_79]

But if you look at the Air configurator now, DDP is a $2500 option, which is not as egregious and in line with other luxury cars. I think BMW, GM, Ford all charge in the neighborhood of ~$2-3k for hands-free.

So what about the people who paid $10K? Sucks to be them I guess….

 

[HC_79]

Really? You’d pay $10k for rear cross traffic protection? Pretty sure that’s a standard feature on most cars including base dream drive.

It is, or $2K to $4K max

 

[momo3605]

So what about the people who paid $10K? Sucks to be them I guess….

Yea. When I first started researching Lucid back in 2023, when I say the $8 or $9k pricing for DDP, I knew that was going to end the same way Tesla’s FSD scam did. I didn’t pay for it when I got my Touring. But if someone decided that it was worth it for a lidar unit strapped to the bumper, then they shouldn’t complain, they chose it.

If I were getting a Lucid NOW however, I probably would pay $2500 for DDP. Even with the current feature set, I think lane keeping and automatic lane changes would be worth $2500 to me.

 

[BS8899]

Yes LiDAR is attenuated by rain but it does not give false signals. The main advantage of LiDAR over radar is the angular resolution giving it the ability to see smaller objects and distinguish multiple objects at a distance. The idea that LiDAR does not work in the rain is simply wrong.

I don't have any expertise in LIDAR. But, what do you make of these articles?

Fair Weather Friend: How do LiDAR Systems Cope in Rain & Fog? - AutoVision News

Fair Weather Friend: How do LiDAR Systems Cope in Rain & Fog? . Read more from AutoVision News .

www.autovision-news.com

Why Heavy Rain Is Not Bad for Lidar and Self-Driving Vehicles

What sensing technologies can be used in vehicles, what did the researchers discover, and why is it not important?

www.electropages.com

Helping automated vehicles ‘see’ through fog and snow | Center for Transportation Studies

While fully automated vehicles (AVs) have not yet reached the roads,

www.cts.umn.edu

 

[Adnillien]

I don't have any expertise in LIDAR. But, what do you make of these articles?

Fair Weather Friend: How do LiDAR Systems Cope in Rain & Fog? - AutoVision News

Fair Weather Friend: How do LiDAR Systems Cope in Rain & Fog? . Read more from AutoVision News .

www.autovision-news.com

Why Heavy Rain Is Not Bad for Lidar and Self-Driving Vehicles

What sensing technologies can be used in vehicles, what did the researchers discover, and why is it not important?

www.electropages.com

Helping automated vehicles ‘see’ through fog and snow | Center for Transportation Studies

While fully automated vehicles (AVs) have not yet reached the roads,

www.cts.umn.edu

The first article is probably the best. As I said, rain and fog attenuate the LiDAR lowering its range. For 905nm, which Lucid uses. Range may be reduced by 20% or 25%. That means the instead of seeing 300m, it may only see 225m. This may reduce the maximum speed of fully automated systems or even level 3 systems. The advantage of multiple sensors is that radar is much less affected by rain and fog. LiDAR is better at seeing through rain and fog than optical. Each sensor has its own advantages and disadvantages. That is why having data from multiple types of sensors is important for ADAS systems.