DDP and SSP on Secondhand Purchase

[piyer1710]

Hey all -

About two weeks ago, I purchased a 2023 Lucid Air Touring 2nd hand, but it was practically new - only 370 miles. I was provided the original "sticker" from the dealership which sold it, which provided proof of all of the exterior/interiror/functional/safety and optional features. Most importantly, it was clear that Dream Drive Pro and Surreal Sound Pro was listed as an included optional feature that was paid for.

The features were working when I test drove the car and bought it, but fast forward to today - neither are working. I called Lucid Customer Care and they mentioned these were trial periods and it didn't appear that the original owner purchased them. I shared the original sticker with Lucid and they're looking it, but it's not guaranteed that I'll get these features.

Now obviously that's a big deal - I valued these features at $14K when I made the offer and both the sticker and the carfax indicated they were in there. But Lucid is telling me these weren't full features of the vehicle.

Has anyone encountered this before? I hope there is a simple way to verify these things (or that some signals got crossed at Lucid) because otherwise it calls into question the validity of selling these cars on the secondary market.

 

[Bobby]

Hey all -

About two weeks ago, I purchased a 2023 Lucid Air Touring 2nd hand, but it was practically new - only 370 miles. I was provided the original "sticker" from the dealership which sold it, which provided proof of all of the exterior/interiror/functional/safety and optional features. Most importantly, it was clear that Dream Drive Pro and Surreal Sound Pro was listed as an included optional feature that was paid for.

The features were working when I test drove the car and bought it, but fast forward to today - neither are working. I called Lucid Customer Care and they mentioned these were trial periods and it didn't appear that the original owner purchased them. I shared the original sticker with Lucid and they're looking it, but it's not guaranteed that I'll get these features.

Now obviously that's a big deal - I valued these features at $14K when I made the offer and both the sticker and the carfax indicated they were in there. But Lucid is telling me these weren't full features of the vehicle.

Has anyone encountered this before? I hope there is a simple way to verify these things (or that some signals got crossed at Lucid) because otherwise it calls into question the validity of selling these cars on the secondary market.

Post a picture of the original sticker.

 

[piyer1710]

Post a picture of the original sticker.

here it is.

 

[zakster]

View attachment 13444


here it is.

All Touring monroney stickers looked like that even if you did not purchase DDP or SSP. I know it is misleading but they included the hardware with trial that may be why. My sticker looks the same although I did not purchase DDP or SSP.

 

[piyer1710]

All Touring monroney stickers looked like that even if you did not purchase DDP or SSP. I know it is misleading but they included the hardware with trial that may be why. My sticker looks the same although I did not purchase DDP or SSP.

Are we sure this is true for all? I know other touring members who didn't have DDP on their sticker bc they didn't pay for it.

If that is true, how are second hand buyers protected in these scenarios? Are we supposed to call Lucid and confirm that everything is as what the sticker says it is? What incentive does Lucid have to confirm that? Feels crazy to me.

 

[Spin Doctor]

All Touring monroney stickers looked like that even if you did not purchase DDP or SSP. I know it is misleading but they included the hardware with trial that may be why. My sticker looks the same although I did not purchase DDP or SSP.

Can you post a picture of your sticker?

The picture above suggests to me that $10k and $4k were paid for DDP and SSP respectively. Do you also have this in writing from the dealer?

 

[piyer1710]

Can you post a picture of your sticker?

The picture above suggests to me that $10k and $4k were paid for DDP and SSP respectively. Do you also have this in writing from the dealer?

I posted the sticker on mine up above but would also be curious about zakster's.

The Dealer is a chevy dealer and they've been super honest and transparent. They acknowledged that they thought it came with it and the listing (on cars.com) had it listed as a feature - they've taken it down since then but i'm sure they can get the original version.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Sorry, I meant Zakster's sticker

 

[Drendino]

Wow, that is definitely misleading. Seems to me like Lucid has potentially opened themselves up to a whole lot of small claims actions. Should have contained asterisks and fine print pertaining to the trial. I would have looked at that, saw that there is a glass canopy ($4,500) and assumed that all the other options were included. Can’t blame the dealer.

 

[Tâm]

I posted the sticker on mine up above but would also be curious about zakster's.

The Dealer is a chevy dealer and they've been super honest and transparent. They acknowledged that they thought it came with it and the listing (on cars.com) had it listed as a feature - they've taken it down since then but i'm sure they can get the original version.

The Moroney sticker is generally accurate, but there are times that the customers would not want a feature listed and request to take them off for a discount. That feature reduction would be documented on the Moter Vehicle Purchase Agreement.

Thus, to be prudent, you need to see the Moter Vehicle Purchase Agreement because it is a sales receipt.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Please read my post from several days ago about the Monroney Label. It is not just a “sticker” but a required document by government regulation of what is on the vehicle. What Lucid has done with these shenanigans is violate the regulations regarding disclosure of included items on the vehicle. This is going to be a serious problem for Lucid as this poster indicates.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

Please read my post from several days ago about the Monroney Label. It is not just a “sticker” but a required document by government regulation of what is on the vehicle. What Lucid has done with these shenanigans is violate the regulations regarding disclosure of included items on the vehicle. This is going to be a serious problem for Lucid as this poster indicates.

Lucid did no such thing! The Moroney label requires the manufacturer to list what items are included in the car when the vehicle is manufactured. These must include the manufacturers retail price of these items. The car does include the hardware for SSP and DDP but it doesn't include the software. This is no different than Sirius XM hardware built into a car. You pay for Sirius after your trial and it's the same with DDP and SSP.

Look for my post last week where I discuss this and posted the actual language of the law. Lucid has broken no laws.

 

[piyer1710]

Lucid did no such thing! The Moroney label requires the manufacturer to list what items are included in the car when the vehicle is manufactured. These must include the manufacturers retail price of these items. The car does include the hardware for SSP and DDP but it doesn't include the software. This is no different than Sirius XM hardware built into a car. You pay for Sirius after your trial and it's the same with DDP and SSP.

Look for my post last week where I discuss this and posted the actual language of the law. Lucid has broken no laws.

I am not a lawyer but the difference between this and SiriusXM is that sirius is NOT listed as an additional cost that appears to have been paid for and has inflated the value of the car (and as a result what a second hand owner would pay for it).

There has to be a reasonableness standard here that should be applied. And it doesn't, to me, appear reasonable for a buyer to know this background. This to me is completely deceptive.

 

[piyer1710]

I would completely agree with you if DDP and SSP were listed as no cost features in the main section - that would indicate the HW is there but the SW isn't (and makes it truly apples to apples to Sirius). When they show it this way, your argument, respectfully, falls apart.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

I am not a lawyer but the difference between this and SiriusXM is that sirius is NOT listed as an additional cost that appears to have been paid for and has inflated the value of the car (and as a result what a second hand owner would pay for it).

There has to be a reasonableness standard here that should be applied. And it doesn't, to me, appear reasonable for a buyer to know this background. This to me is completely deceptive.

You're wrong. See this thread.

Post in thread 'Upgrades and the Monroney Label' https://lucidowners.com/threads/upgrades-and-the-monroney-label.6097/post-143363

 

[Babyrocko1908]

I am not a lawyer but the difference between this and SiriusXM is that sirius is NOT listed as an additional cost that appears to have been paid for and has inflated the value of the car (and as a result what a second hand owner would pay for it).

There has to be a reasonableness standard here that should be applied. And it doesn't, to me, appear reasonable for a buyer to know this background. This to me is completely deceptive.

Further, try purchasing a used car with the Sirius XM hardware already installed. It likely came with a free trial. It's the same with SSP and DDPro.

Lucid sold your vehicle to the previous owner not you. Other than warranty obligations, Lucid has no other obligations to you. Your issue with the dealer who sold you the car and frankly yourself for not double checking the Vin with Lucid prior to selling and your purchasing the car.

 

[piyer1710]

You're wrong. See this thread.

Post in thread 'Upgrades and the Monroney Label' https://lucidowners.com/threads/upgrades-and-the-monroney-label.6097/post-

Further, try purchasing a used car with the Sirius XM hardware already installed. It likely came with a free trial. It's the same with SSP and DDPro.

Lucid sold your vehicle to the previous owner not you. Other than warranty obligations, Lucid has no other obligations to you. Your issue with the dealer who sold you the car and frankly yourself for not double checking the Vin with Lucid prior to selling and your purchasing the car.

My argument was your siriusXM analogy was a false one because of the reasons you stated and you haven't proven otherwise.

If it's reasonable to expect a second hand buyer to do that then you're right. My only point is that doesn't appear to be a reasonable standard.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

I would completely agree with you if DDP and SSP were listed as no cost features in the main section - that would indicate the HW is there but the SW isn't (and makes it truly apples to apples to Sirius). When they show it this way, your argument, respectfully, falls apart.

Software isn't required to be listed on the Monroney Label only hardware/equipment.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

My argument was your siriusXM analogy was a false one because of the reasons you stated and you haven't proven otherwise.

If it's reasonable to expect a second hand buyer to do that then you're right. My only point is that doesn't appear to be a reasonable standard.

It's not a false one and I have. The Sirus XM example is the easiest one to understand. In most used cars, the Sirus XM HARDWARE is there and is listed on the Monroney. It usually comes with a trial that expires. A customer then pays for the service after the trial.

Note, our SiriusXM in the car is via an app which is software based and not required by the Automobile Information Disclosure Act.

 

[piyer1710]

It's not a false one and I have. The Sirus XM example is the easiest one to understand. In most used cars, the Sirus XM HARDWARE is there and is listed on the Monroney. It usually comes with a trial that expires. A customer then pays for the service after the trial.

Note, our SiriusXM in the car is via an app which is software based and not required by the Automobile Information Disclosure Act.

It's easy to understand but it's fundamentally different from my POV. On monroney docs, SiriusXM is never listed as a feature with an added cost it's always embedded as a no cost feature. My point is when these features are listed separately with a cost to them, it's subject to a different interpretation.

I don't think we're going to agree on this but I appreciate the banter. Have learned a lot.