Charging options

[BradSholl]

Being new to EVs, I’m a little fuzzy on my charging options at home. (Nearest EA station is 15 mi away in a direction I don’t often travel) I have an AGT ordered, but may drop down in model once I can finally see one in person and evaluate whether the glass roof and loss of foot room in the back vs cost effect my choice.

Anyway…I’m a bit confused about the whole Wunderbox thing. Am I correct in assuming this is an onboard charger and all I need is the included cable and a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in my garage? I have (2) 200A panels, so plenty of room to connect. If I charge this way, do I retain the ability to control charging time and amount? Would purchasing a wall mount charger have any advantages?

Also, I will likely add a second EV in the next 1-2 yrs, possibly a Rivian. Does this change installation choices?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[hydbob]

Currently, the Lucid does not have scheduled charging. It's supposedly "coming", but it's not here yet. Wall mounted chargers, depending on which model, will let you schedule.

If you have the 14-50 plug all you need is the included charger and even with a Rivian, it SHOULD work with that as well since Rivian also uses CCS

 

[BradSholl]

Thanks!

 

[Sandvinsd]

Buying a wall mount charger will give you some flexibility And you can keep the mobile charger unit in the car for trips. We have a ChargePoint Flex which works well and you can do scheduling based on TOU with the power company. The Grizzle and Juicebox are also highly rated. Install 2 NEMA 14-50 plugs in 50 amp circuits in the 2-car garage if you are planning for multiple EVs. Running the charger in a 6 hour overnight (our super off peak is for 6 hours from 12-6a) will provide about 57 kw (9.6 kw per hour). If your super off peak time is longer you can add more overnight. The Lucid home charger which is not available yet will charge at 19.2 kW, but you will need to hardwire it into a 100amp circuit. No idea on the pricing on that, but it will add bidirectional capabilities to the charging.

 

[Not Sam]

The Rivian comes with its own Portable charger that similarly will plug into NEMA 14-50 or NEMA 5-15. See my post in the other thread about the Wunderbox: It is an onboard charger, but you still need something external to plug into standard household outlets, such as the mobile charger.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Once I get the Lucid bi-directional home unit then I will keep the "portable" unit in the car. Until then I will just use the "portable" unit with my existing 14-50 Nema plug.

 

[SDHacker]

If you're not concerned about how long it takes to charge, installing a 50 amp wall plug (that's the highest amperage a plug in charger can handle - Chargepoint Flex with 9.6 kW output) is fine and what most people seem to do. There are hardwired chargers that can output 80 amps (19.2 kW into the car). The approximate miles gained per hour of charging would be 37 @9.6 and 60 @19.2 according to a chart on a vendor site. Using the cord that comes with the car would yield about 30 miles per hour on a 40 amp circuit.

 

[hydbob]

Once I get the Lucid bi-directional home unit then I will keep the "portable" unit in the car. Until then I will just use the "portable" unit with my existing 14-50 Nema plug.

I really should have done this, but it was am oversight. But it means I can have a wall charger in each garage!

 

[Sandvinsd]

Once I get the Lucid bi-directional home unit then I will keep the "portable" unit in the car. Until then I will just use the "portable" unit with my existing 14-50 Nema plug.

Yes. Same here. I’m going to trade off with the Leaf on our single ChargePoint unit and just top off with the mobile unit in a 110 outlet until the Lucid home charger is available and they provide pricing. I’m Expecting availability within the next 6 months or so. I would then add the 100 amp line and install the bi-directional unit.

 

[Not Sam]

The approximate miles gained per hour of charging would be 37 @9.6 and 60 @19.2 according to a chart on a vendor site

That seems odd to me: If the car is charging at 80A (19.2kW) it should be getting closer to twice the miles per hour as 40A. Are you sure that's not an 80A circuit, charging at 64A (15.3kW)? The numbers work out exactly if that's the case.

I do know that charging at higher amperage results in more loss to heat, and that charging current tapers off near the end, but those factors would both depend on the particular car and onboard charger and the difference in average rates still seems quite high.

 

[Sandvinsd]

That seems odd to me: If the car is charging at 80A (19.2kW) it should be getting closer to twice the miles per hour as 40A. Are you sure that's not an 80A circuit, charging at 64A (15.3kW)? The numbers work out exactly if that's the case.

I do know that charging at higher amperage results in more loss to heat, and that charging current tapers off near the end, but those factors would both depend on the particular car and onboard charger and the difference in average rates still seems quite high.

The miles per hour of charging all depends on the vehicle efficiency. If you get 3 miles per kW then you will get about 58 miles for an hour of charging at 80amps/240 volts, and about 29 miles per hour at 40 amps/240 volts. If you get 4 miles per kw, then you get 77 and 38. On those charts, it depends on what number they are using for driving efficiency. That is why I always like to use kW added per hour rather than miles as YMMV.

 

[Not Sam]

The miles per hour of charging all depends on the vehicle efficiency. If you get 3 miles per kW then you will get about 58 miles for an hour of charging at 80amps/240 volts, and about 29 miles per hour at 40 amps/240 volts. If you get 4 miles per kw, then you get 77 and 38. On those charts, it depends on what number they are using for driving efficiency. That is why I always like to use kW added per hour rather than miles as YMMV.

Agreed. My only point was that 80A should deliver twice the rate of 40A, whatever that rate is.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Agreed. My only point was that 80A should deliver twice the rate of 40A, whatever that rate is.

yes. It will deliver twice. Difference in heat losses will change the amount actually received, but again, roughly double the kW and miles if using the same miles /kW efficiency.

 

[MPawelek]

Most folks I know use the Level 2/35 or 40 amp chargers at home and go no higher because their home service may not handle the 80 amp pull when many other things in the house are being used such as electric heat, electric clothes dryer or electric stove.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Most folks I know use the Level 2/35 or 40 amp chargers at home and go no higher because their home service may not handle the 80 amp pull when many other things in the house are being used such as electric heat, electric clothes dryer or electric stove.

And charging at 40 amps will fill up a Lucid Air GT from 0 to 100% in about 12 hours, or from 20 to 80% in less than 8. So it is really all you need. Even at 35 amps, it will be 14 hour for a whole battery or less than 9 for 20 to 80%. Of course that is all on a 240V outlet.

 

[MikeTz]

There seems to be a misunderstanding as to the function of the Lucid Air supplied 120//240V charger. I believe the misunderstanding comes from the use of the word "charger". It is not a charger. It is a short and long power cable that is separated by a power relay that acts as an on-off switch. The charger is located in the car. Lucid and every manufacturer follows the IEC 62196 Type 1 guidelines. The standard requires that no power flows to the car until a test protocol is successfully completed between the onboard charger and any power device connected to it. As far as I can tell, the current charging device provided by Lucid does not allow two-way power flow and would require additional equipment to be made available. I suspect it will be pricey plus it will require additional mods to meet the local codes.

 

[Sandvinsd]

There seems to be a misunderstanding as to the function of the Lucid Air supplied 120//240V charger. I believe the misunderstanding comes from the use of the word "charger". It is not a charger. It is a short and long power cable that is separated by a power relay that acts as an on-off switch. The charger is located in the car. Lucid and every manufacturer follows the IEC 62196 Type 1 guidelines. The standard requires that no power flows to the car until a test protocol is successfully completed between the onboard charger and any power device connected to it. As far as I can tell, the current charging device provided by Lucid does not allow two-way power flow and would require additional equipment to be made available. I suspect it will be pricey plus it will require additional mods to meet the local codes.

The charger is the wonderbox in the car. Different car car chargers will take different amounts of current. For example, my Leaf can only accept about 28 amps (6.6 kw at 240 v) so my ChargePoint charger is overkill at 40 amps. The Lucid can take 80 amps (19.2kw). The EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment) that everyone refers to as the “Charger“ is the power supply. The MOBILE Lucid EVSE supplied by Lucid in the trunk can allow 40amps or 9.6 kW max and will only flow from the outlet to the car. This is half of the current which the car can handle. The Lucid HOME EVSE (not available yet but will be for purchase) can supply 80amps or 19.2 kW and will allow bi-directional capabilities if wired correctly. The third piece not talked about but an item that I am interested in having 2 EVs would be a V2V cable that would allow the Lucid to charge another EV. It would have a charging connector at each end to fit onto EVs and would not attach to a power supply. That also is not available yet. I would want this so I could charge the Leaf at home day when power rates are at the peak and not have to draw it from the grid. Rather I could draw some from the Lucid in those few times I need it and then recharge both cars at night.

 

[MikeTz]

The charger is the wonderbox in the car. Different car car chargers will take different amounts of current. For example, my Leaf can only accept about 28 amps (6.6 kw at 240 v) so my ChargePoint charger is overkill at 40 amps. The Lucid can take 80 amps (19.2kw). The EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment) that everyone refers to as the “Charger“ is the power supply. The MOBILE Lucid EVSE supplied by Lucid in the trunk can allow 40amps or 9.6 kW max and will only flow from the outlet to the car. This is half of the current which the car can handle. The Lucid HOME EVSE (not available yet but will be for purchase) can supply 80amps or 19.2 kW and will allow bi-directional capabilities if wired correctly. The third piece not talked about but an item that I am interested in having 2 EVs would be a V2V cable that would allow the Lucid to charge another EV. It would have a charging connector at each end to fit onto EVs and would not attach to a power supply. That also is not available yet. I would want this so I could charge the Leaf at home day when power rates are at the peak and not have to draw it from the grid. Rather I could draw some from the Lucid in those few times I need it and then recharge both cars at night.

So the bi-directional power delivered will be limited to 80 Amps? A V2V will take 15 minutes to push 5kWh to another Lucid but a lot longer to another brand EV as it will be limited by its onboard charger?

 

[Sandvinsd]

So the bi-directional power delivered will be limited to 80 Amps? A V2V will take 15 minutes to push 5kWh to another Lucid but a lot longer to another brand EV as it will be limited by its onboard charger?

I have no idea about the specifications of V2G or V2V as I have not seen anything yet. It would make sense that the speed of V2V charging would be limited to the speed of the Level 2 charging capabilities of the recipient car.

 

[MikeTz]

I have no idea about the specifications of V2G or V2V as I have not seen anything yet. It would make sense that the speed of V2V charging would be limited to the speed of the Level 2 charging capabilities of the recipient car.

It is possible to do a high charge rate with a V2V DC/DC feed if both cars are Lucid.