Car Dealerships and EVs

[hydbob]

Most car dealers show little interest in training their sales force on EVs, so it's too much to expect rental agencies to train counter personnel on them. However, anyone who rents an EV should at least be given a prepared sheet or flyer with a few key tips about driving and charging an EV. This should cover things such as:

- regenerative braking
- the effects of highway speeds and cold weather on range
- warnings that the car's indicated range may be inaccurate
- how to locate suitable charging stations
- what to do if the car seems to be running out of range before final destination.

I think people do themselves a disservice by not educating themselves on EVs and just going, let's rent one and see what's what. They just don't understand there is so much more involved and don't take some time to do basic research about it. It's not for lack of available education but a conscious decision to refuse to educate themselves prior to experiencingwhats EVs have to offer and them go on to complain how EVs are terrible, hard to figure out, and a detriment to society

 

[scal_air]

Tesla is not selling EVs at a loss, even with the current markdowns. Please read their 10K. They are a public company with audited financials and are profitable in the car business, not as profitable as when EV prices were through the roof during Covid.

I did not mean to imply that Tesla was unprofitable or selling all EVs at a loss. However, Tesla is aggressively cutting prices of its cars in certain markets.

"Tesla (TSLA) today (Jan. 6) slashed prices of its Model 3 and Model Y electric cars in China for the second time in three months in a bid to boost demand amid falling sales. After the latest cuts, the entry-level Model Y is 43 percent cheaper than in the U.S., and the base Model 3 costs 30 percent less."

Tesla’s Model Y Is 40% Cheaper in China Than in the US After Latest Price Cuts

Tesla slashed the prices of Model 3 and Model Y electric cars in China for the second time in three months.

observer.com

Hard to believe this is enough margin in the Tesla Models Y and 3, that they can be marketed for 30-40 percent less than in the US and still be profitable...

 

[Genghis]

I did not mean to imply that Tesla was unprofitable or selling all EVs at a loss. However, Tesla is aggressively cutting prices of its cars in certain markets.

"Tesla (TSLA) today (Jan. 6) slashed prices of its Model 3 and Model Y electric cars in China for the second time in three months in a bid to boost demand amid falling sales. After the latest cuts, the entry-level Model Y is 43 percent cheaper than in the U.S., and the base Model 3 costs 30 percent less."

Tesla’s Model Y Is 40% Cheaper in China Than in the US After Latest Price Cuts

Tesla slashed the prices of Model 3 and Model Y electric cars in China for the second time in three months.

observer.com

Hard to believe this is enough margin in the Tesla Models Y and 3, that they can be marketed for 30-40 percent less than in the US and still be profitable...

Wow, this is actually big news for Tesla shareholders as it is no longer about production and delivery for them but growth (China market) and gross margins (profit). They still probably have room with sales and numbers from U.S. to make these decisions for increasing market share in China, but it will come at a cost.

 

[Neurio]

I think people do themselves a disservice by not educating themselves on EVs and just going, let's rent one and see what's what. They just don't understand there is so much more involved and don't take some time to do basic research about it. It's not for lack of available education but a conscious decision to refuse to educate themselves prior to experiencingwhats EVs have to offer and them go on to complain how EVs are terrible, hard to figure out, and a detriment to society

While I don't disagree with you, the rental agency should have some responsibility to make sure the person renting an EV has basic knowledge of how an EV works. I agree with @hmp10 that a simple information sheet should suffice and then they don't need to worry about actually training their employees appropriately.

 

[Genghis]

While I don't disagree with you, the rental agency should have some responsibility to make sure the person renting an EV has basic knowledge of how an EV works. I agree with @hmp10 that a simple information sheet should suffice and then they don't need to worry about actually training their employees appropriately.

I agree, but beyond a simple sheet, some of the basics do need to be shown to a new EV renter. I was at an EVGo station that had 3/4 working stations with a line of waiting cars four cars deep. I’m thinking like the others in line that we could probably get a charger within an hour. However, one charger was taken by a college student that rented an EV for the first time that was struggling. After watching her for 10 minutes, I and another owner in an i5 stepped in to help her. She didn’t know where the charge port was and how to open it. Then, she couldn’t figure out how to authenticate the car as the car wasn’t registered to her EVGo account she set up on the spot that didn’t match the rental car. We had to call both the rental car company and EVGo to get it working for her to finally get her charge going. It took over half an hour. She was relieved and thanked us for the help but she said she would never rent an EV again because it was so stressful as the rental car company didn’t give her any instructions other than return the car at 60% charge.

 

[Lucken]

Most car dealers show little interest in training their sales force on EVs, so it's too much to expect rental agencies to train counter personnel on them. However, anyone who rents an EV should at least be given a prepared sheet or flyer with a few key tips about driving and charging an EV. This should cover things such as:

- regenerative braking
- the effects of highway speeds and cold weather on range
- warnings that the car's indicated range may be inaccurate
- how to locate suitable charging stations
- what to do if the car seems to be running out of range before final destination.

Although I agree, let’s be honest, that list would probably scare away a good portion of prospective EV renters.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I did not mean to imply that Tesla was unprofitable or selling all EVs at a loss. However, Tesla is aggressively cutting prices of its cars in certain markets.

"Tesla (TSLA) today (Jan. 6) slashed prices of its Model 3 and Model Y electric cars in China for the second time in three months in a bid to boost demand amid falling sales. After the latest cuts, the entry-level Model Y is 43 percent cheaper than in the U.S., and the base Model 3 costs 30 percent less."

Tesla’s Model Y Is 40% Cheaper in China Than in the US After Latest Price Cuts

Tesla slashed the prices of Model 3 and Model Y electric cars in China for the second time in three months.

observer.com

Hard to believe this is enough margin in the Tesla Models Y and 3, that they can be marketed for 30-40 percent less than in the US and still be profitable...

They did that to maintain eroding market share.

Wow, this is actually big news for Tesla shareholders as it is no longer about production and delivery for them but growth (China market) and gross margins (profit). They still probably have room with sales and numbers from U.S. to make these decisions for increasing market share in China, but it will come at a cost.

In USA, they have FSD Beta and Tesla Supercharging Network as a draw to the brand. The AI driving is so impressive in China, FSD beta has yet roll out in China, but there are several brands are on the road with Level-3 autonomy using Lidar, radar, vision and HD mapping.

 

[Electrified]

I think people do themselves a disservice by not educating themselves on EVs and just going, let's rent one and see what's what. They just don't understand there is so much more involved and don't take some time to do basic research about it. It's not for lack of available education but a conscious decision to refuse to educate themselves prior to experiencingwhats EVs have to offer and them go on to complain how EVs are terrible, hard to figure out, and a detriment to society

Educating ones self takes some initiative which we know is lacking with some folks, and of course when you don't take the effort why not just blame something or someone else for your lack of knowledge.

Several years ago I test drove a Model S and was thoroughly impressed with the Ludicrous launch the Tesla rep instructed me to do, I left the Tesla sales office in my 556 HP CTS V-Coupe thinking it was not so fast anymore.....WTF LOL. Fast forward to December 2021 when I decided I was going to buy a Model S Plaid, well I just can't buy it without Googling some reviews on the car and I come across Doug DeMuro's review of the Plaid and decided that wasn't the car for me, but his review of the Lucid is what prompted me to dig deeper and find out more info about Lucid.

I lurked at the other Lucid forum for a couple of weeks and joined it on January 2, 2022, on January 3rd I ordered my AGT being fairly well educated into what I was getting into, and by the time I took my test drive in March 2022 and made the decision to put the G-note down on the car I KNEW what I was getting and what ownership consisted of from what I learned at the other forum and this forum; when my car was delivered in September 2022 there wasn't much the guy could tell me about the car that I didn't already know thanks to the self education I embarked on.

While I don't disagree with you, the rental agency should have some responsibility to make sure the person renting an EV has basic knowledge of how an EV works. I agree with @hmp10 that a simple information sheet should suffice and then they don't need to worry about actually training their employees appropriately.

Absolutely and the rental should be delivered with a minimum 90% charge, along with some info on charging app sites like PlugShare.

 

[hmp10]

Although I agree, let’s be honest, that list would probably scare away a good portion of prospective EV renters.

That might be true, but wouldn't it be better than having EV renters stranded on the roadside or unable to figure out how to charge the car at a charging station?

Over a year ago I was on an EV thread on "Nextdoor.com". A woman posted that they had just ordered a Tesla, and she was asking where she could sign up for instructions on how to drive an EV. I assured her that it was so similar to driving an ICE car once a few minutes had spent practicing with regenerative braking that she didn't really need any instruction.

Having heard some real horror stories as EVs have started showing up in rental fleets, I'm now thinking I was a bit smug with that lady. There are a lot of things an ICE driver needs to know before putting an EV rental on the road:

- what brand EV you're driving determines which charging stations you can use (Tesla vs. CCS)
- you can't just swipe a credit card or make a cash payment at charging stations; you have to load an app on your phone and create an account for that particular brand of charger
- the range the car tells you it has is not the range you'll get at highway speeds and may differ by 30% or more on some cars, especially in cold weather
- the car's software can help with some of these issues, but you have to know how to access the information in that particular car (and there are a lot of differences by brand)

These are things people on this forum have come to know like the backs of their hands, but I suspect we've forgotten how long and sometimes frustrating our own learning curves were.

My friend had checked out locations of Tesla Superchargers before reserving a Tesla, he had been with us when we charged our Tesla, and he was comfortable he knew where and how to charge if needed on the route home. Then Avis put them in a Ford Mustang.

A lot of people think rental fleets are a good way to help decide whether they want to buy an EV, thinking they'll have more time and choice of conditions in which to drive the car than with a sales person along for the ride. But I think using rental EVs for this purpose poses more risk than advantage to the mission of encouraging people to buy EVs.

 

[scal_air]

They did that to maintain eroding market share.

Yes, that was also my assessment in my original post.

 

[Lucken]

That might be true, but wouldn't it be better than having EV renters stranded on the roadside or unable to figure out how to charge the car at a charging station?

Over a year ago I was on an EV thread on "Nextdoor.com". A woman posted that they had just ordered a Tesla, and she was asking where she could sign up for instructions on how to drive an EV. I assured her that it was so similar to driving an ICE car once a few minutes had spent practicing with regenerative braking that she didn't really need any instruction.

Having heard some real horror stories as EVs have started showing up in rental fleets, I'm now thinking I was a bit smug with that lady. There are a lot of things an ICE driver needs to know before putting an EV rental on the road:

- what brand EV you're driving determines which charging stations you can use (Tesla vs. CCS)
- you can't just swipe a credit card or make a cash payment at charging stations; you have to load an app on your phone and create an account for that particular brand of charger
- the range the car tells you it has is not the range you'll get at highway speeds and may differ by 30% or more on some cars, especially in cold weather
- the car's software can help with some of these issues, but you have to know how to access the information in that particular car (and there are a lot of differences by brand)

These are things people on this forum have come to know like the backs of their hands, but I suspect we've forgotten how long and sometimes frustrating our own learning curves were.

My friend had checked out locations of Tesla Superchargers before reserving a Tesla, he had been with us when we charged our Tesla, and he was comfortable he knew where and how to charge if needed on the route home. Then Avis put them in a Ford Mustang.

A lot of people think rental fleets are a good way to help decide whether they want to buy an EV, thinking they'll have more time and choice of conditions in which to drive the car than with a sales person along for the ride. But I think using rental EVs for this purpose poses more risk than advantage to the mission of encouraging people to buy EVs.

I absolutely agree it would be better, but I was just pointing out the potential ramifications of it. The net impact would still be positive.

 

[Instinctive]

- what brand EV you're driving determines which charging stations you can use (Tesla vs. CCS)
- you can't just swipe a credit card or make a cash payment at charging stations; you have to load an app on your phone and create an account for that particular brand of charger

If they can fix this and make it possible to just swipe at charging stations, it would go a long way. It seems like such a weird decision by all these companies to be like:

"You know, people have been gassing up cars successfully for a really long time. We can improve on that in some ways, and probably don't need as many because of home and destination charging, but let's make sure it's not such a big change that we cause organ rejection swapping to EVs."

"Ok, cool, let's make it so you have to download a different app for every single brand and setup different accounts and register your vehicle in each app or nothing will work."

WHAT? It's insane. I'm open to the idea that doing it this way is 5% better in the long run, but I'm also open to the fact that enabling an actual transition that's effective where you CAN just use a credit card would be WAY more beneficial to adoption.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Here is a nice story. Driving home Monday afternoon in the Lucid getting ready for Thanksgiving, I hit a pothole hard and blew the right rear tire. I drove carefully at very slow speed on the rim to get the vehicle to a safe spot. First available place just ahead happened to be a Toyota dealer. I parked the car in the far corner of the lot and started to contact Lucid roadside service. A dealership employee noticed me, I told him a have a flat and I will get the car towed asap. He snarled that I cannot leave the car there for long. A few minutes later, the assistant service manager came out to talk to me. He offered to help me, order the exact replacement tire, get it mounted and balanced, and I would be good as new in 24 hours. I took him up on the offer. The car was drawing quite a bit of attention once in the service bay. He kept the car inside and notified me when the car was ready. When I picked up the car, they gave me a little Hot Wheels model of a Lucid. So sweet to take car of me and celebrate the cool factor of Lucid. There are nice people in the world.

 

[xponents]

Here is a nice story. Driving home Monday afternoon in the Lucid getting ready for Thanksgiving, I hit a pothole hard and blew the right rear tire. I drove carefully at very slow speed on the rim to get the vehicle to a safe spot. First available place just ahead happened to be a Toyota dealer. I parked the car in the far corner of the lot and started to contact Lucid roadside service. A dealership employee noticed me, I told him a have a flat and I will get the car towed asap. He snarled that I cannot leave the car there for long. A few minutes later, the assistant service manager came out to talk to me. He offered to help me, order the exact replacement tire, get it mounted and balanced, and I would be good as new in 24 hours. I took him up on the offer. The car was drawing quite a bit of attention once in the service bay. He kept the car inside and notified me when the car was ready. When I picked up the car, they gave me a little Hot Wheels model of a Lucid. So sweet to take car of me and celebrate the cool factor of Lucid. There are nice people in the world.

Thats very wholesome, but I do wonder: Why did they have a spare Lucid hotwheel lying around?

 

[borski]

WHAT? It's insane. I'm open to the idea that doing it this way is 5% better in the long run, but I'm also open to the fact that enabling an actual transition that's effective where you CAN just use a credit card would be WAY more beneficial to adoption.

The new NEVI requirements require exactly this for federal funding.

 

[Instinctive]

The new NEVI requirements require exactly this for federal funding.

Hooray!

 

[Haggy]

The new NEVI requirements require exactly this for federal funding.

I have nothing against nevi, but naming a program after a nevus doesn't strike me as attractive.

 

[suchluke]

Here is a nice story. Driving home Monday afternoon in the Lucid getting ready for Thanksgiving, I hit a pothole hard and blew the right rear tire. I drove carefully at very slow speed on the rim to get the vehicle to a safe spot. First available place just ahead happened to be a Toyota dealer. I parked the car in the far corner of the lot and started to contact Lucid roadside service. A dealership employee noticed me, I told him a have a flat and I will get the car towed asap. He snarled that I cannot leave the car there for long. A few minutes later, the assistant service manager came out to talk to me. He offered to help me, order the exact replacement tire, get it mounted and balanced, and I would be good as new in 24 hours. I took him up on the offer. The car was drawing quite a bit of attention once in the service bay. He kept the car inside and notified me when the car was ready. When I picked up the car, they gave me a little Hot Wheels model of a Lucid. So sweet to take car of me and celebrate the cool factor of Lucid. There are nice people in the world.

Great story. I wonder if the assistant service manager wasn't Lucid owner himself or at least wanted to be one?

 

[CLTGT]

Hate to poke a few holes in the above, but I rented an EV (Tesla Model Y, I believe) in Nashville about six months ago. I rented from Hertz and received multiple "educational" emails about my future EV rental. I skimmed the email and it seemed to cover the basics. The person at Hertz Nashville even asked if I had any questions and had another person meet me at the car and ask the same. I fully expect the personnel experience to be location dependent, but the emails were not. It may because I am Gold Club, but I doubt that as well.

My only problem was that I got the car straight off the charger with around an 80% charge. They offered to swap the car, let it charge more or take it as is. I took it because I was only going to put 100 miles total on the car anyway.

 

[CLTGT]

Here is just one example of the emails I received and they included links to more information. I must have received over 5 emails leading up to the actual rental offering detail about the car. It was even labeled the "Hertz Educational Series"




Hertz
www.hertz.com
From:[email protected]
To:

Thu, Mar 16 at 12:10 PM

​

​

​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ /​ CONFIRMATION​ ​ ​ Model Y’s minimalistic and sleek design includes an innovative key card, used to unlock, lock and start the car.​ Get Started​ ​ Get into gear. ​ Shift gears with the push of a finger using the reimagined gear selector stalk, located behind the steering wheel. Learn More​ ​ ​ Personalized braking modes. ​ While Model Y uses regenerative (regen) braking as its recommended braking mode, other modes are available for your preferred braking style. Learn More​ ​ ​ No waiting. No stopping. ​ Skip the counter and head straight to your car at pickup. Simply check in via our app 24 hours before arrival. ​ ​ ​ MEMBER NUMBER: LOYALTY TIER: Gold Plus Rewards​ ​ Get the Hertz app for: iPhone / Android / ​ ​ This message was sent to . This electronic-mail message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this message is strictly prohibited and is hereby instructed to return or destroy this copy of this message. ® Reg. U.S. Pat. Off. ©2023 The Hertz Corporation. All rights reserved. 5601 Northwest Expressway, Oklahoma City, OK 73132 U.S.A.​