BMW i5

[hmp10]

Doug DeMuro just reviewed the new BMW i5 EV. The car is 3.3" longer than a Lucid Air (and longer than a Bangle-Butt-era BMW 7 Series).

Take a look at the gargantuan front end of this car which, by the way, is filled with hardware instead of storage space:

Then take a look at the rear seating of the I5 compared to the Lucid Air. (Both photos were taken using Demuro's practice of setting the front seat to his desired position before checking out rear seat room.). For some mysterious reason, DeMuro nevertheless gushed about how roomy the rear seating of the i5 is.

I just don't get it. It's as if the German brands aren't even trying when it comes to space packaging in their EVs.

 

[xponents]

Doug DeMuro just reviewed the new BMW i5 EV. The car is 3.3" longer than a Lucid Air (and longer than a Bangle-Butt-era BMW 7 Series).

Take a look at the gargantuan front end of this car which, by the way, is filled with hardware instead of storage space:

View attachment 18089

View attachment 18090


Then take a look at the rear seating of the I5 compared to the Lucid Air. (Both photos were taken using Demuro's practice of setting the front seat to his desired position before checking out rear seat room.). For some mysterious reason, DeMuro nevertheless gushed about how roomy the rear seating of the i5 is.

View attachment 18091
View attachment 18092


I just don't get it. It's as if the German brands aren't even trying when it comes to space packaging in their EVs.

The most pathetic part is that they COULD have fitted a frunk in there(and a reasonably deep one, actually, it could fit a whole suitcase) as under the cover, there is plenty of space even in the smaller i4. They just decided not to put a plastic cover to make a frunk for some strange reason..


When we went to the BMW dealer, I asked the salesman this exact same question(although we were shopping for the 7 series that is already big enough). The salesman said this: when our customers are expecting regular 5 series(7 series in my case) levels of legroom, we dont NEED to make it bigger which I thought was the sorriest excuse ever. I do have hope for the next gen BMW's on Neue Klasse though, as they seem to be making them smaller while keeping the same or more space!

 

[xponents]

Heres a picture of whats under the i4s cover:

Some people are even making aftermarket parts for it to add a frunk! Embarrassing BMW couldnt have done it themselves...

 

[Steveinarizona]

The size and front end appearance are why I have left the BMW world. And I hated to leave it because they drove so well including the IX and I4 (I didn't test drive the I5 as it wasn't out when I was making my decision).

For the life of me I don't understand why auto manufacturers keep making their cars bigger and I equally don't understand why customers keep purchasing them.

 

[hmp10]

The most pathetic part is that they COULD have fitted a frunk in there(and a reasonably deep one, actually, it could fit a whole suitcase) as under the cover, there is plenty of space even in the smaller i4. They just decided not to put a plastic cover to make a frunk for some strange reason..


When we went to the BMW dealer, I asked the salesman this exact same question(although we were shopping for the 7 series that is already big enough). The salesman said this: when our customers are expecting regular 5 series(7 series in my case) levels of legroom, we dont NEED to make it bigger which I thought was the sorriest excuse ever. I do have hope for the next gen BMW's on Neue Klasse though, as they seem to be making them smaller while keeping the same or more space!

This is what Jason Fenske of "Engineering Explained" refers to as "lazy engineering", and he hits the German automakers head-on with the charge.

 

[xponents]

This is what Jason Fenske of "Engineering Explained" refers to as "lazy engineering", and he hits the German automakers head-on with the charge.

I dont even consider that "lazy engineering," since its literally just putting a stupid plastic cover on, there isnt any engineering! Even I could probably whip up a quick cad model if I had the i4's model and 3d printed it for like 1 dollar a piece. Its more like an "idiotic omittance of a piece of plastic that would have literally no downsides" than that.

 

[hmp10]

I dont even consider that "lazy engineering," since its literally just putting a stupid plastic cover on, there isnt any engineering! Even I could probably whip up a quick cad model if I had the i4's model and 3d printed it for like 1 dollar a piece. Its more like an "idiotic omittance of a piece of plastic that would have literally no downsides" than that.

I was referring to issues well beyond the under-hood cover. The i5 is 3.3" longer than the Lucid Air, with a 1.4" longer wheelbase. A third of the i5's length is taken up by that hood and enormous fake grill. Its cabin is considerably more constricted. The trunk provides the only cargo storage. Even if there were storage under the hood, to use that much of the car's space for cargo instead of cabin space just seems bizarre. This is a passenger conveyance, not a delivery van.

Lucid has shown that you can have it all with thoughtful design: capacious front and rear storage, a roomy passenger cabin, and a sporting footprint.

The only way this BMW design exercise could be called a success is if its goal was to make the car as indistinguishable from an ICE car as possible. However, if the goal of a buyer is to fool himself and others into thinking he bought an ICE car, why not just buy an ICE car? They're not that bad.

With the Tesla Model Y now being the best-selling car model in the world, it seems pretty clear that EV buyers don't mind if their EVs look like EVs . . . and probably even want them to.

It made sense in 2012 for Tesla to take pains to ease the visual transition from an ICE to an electric sedan and to pay the price in room and space efficiency. To be doing that with new model introductions in 2024 just seems bizarre.

BMW used to be the German brand for buyers who were attracted to edgier engineering. It now seems that they're after what was once the Oldsmobile demographic. It also seems that they're following Cadillac down the path it took in the 1970's when it started trying to pass off vinyl roofs and velour upholstery as the automotive advances that were once its hallmark.

 

[Lucken]

The size and front end appearance are why I have left the BMW world. And I hated to leave it because they drove so well including the IX and I4 (I didn't test drive the I5 as it wasn't out when I was making my decision).

For the life of me I don't understand why auto manufacturers keep making their cars bigger and I equally don't understand why customers keep purchasing them.

Counterpoint: In our case my wife is 5’2 and I’m 5’7”. The i4 fit us perfectly. Even a friend of ours, who is 5’11” and his shorter wife, have no real issues in the rear since my seat or my wife’s seat is never too far back. We also don’t take multi-hour drives with them, so there’s that too. For taller drivers and passengers things can be different. For us the space is fine.

Beyond that the car is superb for our needs and a blast to drive. No frunk, but I’ve yet to use any of my EVs’ frunks, current or prior. We all buy for our needs, not the other guy’s needs.

 

[CLTGT]

I think the overall thought process is to minimize production differences and be able to produce the car in the most efficient manner given the current resources.

That is one advantage Lucid has with starting from a blank sheet of paper in almost all respects. The Germans did not start without having to consider other parameters/factors.

Any legacy manufacturer will have that inherent shortcoming.

They view the i5 as another 5-Series offering, not as merely a mid-size electric Sedan. We do not really know or respect the limitations that those manufacturing parameters might entail.

I used to be a big BMW fan, but their design aesthetics just haven't been in my wheelhouse lately.

 

[CLTGT]

And to add to the above, I really do not blame them given the sales figures on the ICE versions vs the electric versions. The ICE versions sales numbers dictate design priorities given their philosophy of the electric cars being a sub-offering of current production.

The larger question (sorry for the pun) is why they keep making their mid-size sedan bigger, period, EV or ICE.

 

[hmp10]

I think the overall thought process is to minimize production differences and be able to produce the car in the most efficient manner given the current resources.

That is one advantage Lucid has with starting from a blank sheet of paper in almost all respects. The Germans did not start without having to consider other parameters/factors.

This probably does drive some of their thinking. But a car like the EQS, which has some of the same packaging issues as the BMW, has relatively few parts in common with other cars in the Mercedes line-up and is built on a line that was designed from the ground up specifically for the EQ series. It was, in essence, as much a start-up project as the Lucid Air.

I think the legacy issue lies more in the mental habits and attitudes of the engineers than in production issues. In hiring people such as Erich Bach and Derek Jenkins, Rawlinson has said he focused on people who were more interested in forging new paths than in adapting and evolving along old ones. I think he succeeded, and I think it shows in the product.

 

[CLTGT]

First, MB does not equal BMW. They are actually culturally different Companies. The above referred to BMW and what they might have been thinking. I have no clue where MB was going, but I do know they are having a hard time with the EQ Series.

I disagree about the mental habits/attitudes as a generalization. I think BMW (which is who the original post sited) was thinking more about using an existing platform with a different drivetrain, not a redesign and whole new product line. They want the product as a variant of an existing Series, not a different product line altogether. They wanted the easiest path toward that end, thus the 5-Series as a product line drove their design, not a new EV.

Again, Lucid's design team had no such limitations and, maybe, a cleaner pathway. I think MB's design team might have been given a clean-sheet approach approval, but it doesn't mean they did a great job.

Bottom line, I have a Lucid in my garage that took the place of a BMW M5. I like(d) both for different reasons and wouldn't mind having the M5 back as an additional car in my garage.

 

[Unmutual]

Harry's Garage (YouTube) also didn't like the M60 version:

 

[xponents]

I think BMW is on the right path, actually. Other than the packaging, their EVs are a wonder to drive, and in my opinion they look good(dont shoot me). And their combustion cars are exemplary... MB on the other hand has trash combustion cars right now and trash EVs.

 

[vices]

I like it actually. If I didn't get a Lucid I may have gotten an i5. Can't remember where I read / watched it, but supposedly the Germans don't do frunks for crash safety. I have zero idea if it's real or not.

 

[xponents]

I like it actually. If I didn't get a Lucid I may have gotten an i5. Can't remember where I read / watched it, but supposedly the Germans don't do frunks for crash safety. I have zero idea if it's real or not.

Well thats a load of crap, because having a frunk actually makes sure that the energy is better absorbed by the car, in addition to making the crumple zone larger. Also, with the i4 example I stated, there is still a sizeable "frunk area," they just didnt bother putting... an actual frunk?

 

[WildRide47]

I

Counterpoint: In our case my wife is 5’2 and I’m 5’7”. The i4 fit us perfectly. Even a friend of ours, who is 5’11” and his shorter wife, have no real issues in the rear since my seat or my wife’s seat is never too far back. We also don’t take multi-hour drives with them, so there’s that too. For taller drivers and passengers things can be different. For us the space is fine.

Beyond that the car is superb for our needs and a blast to drive. No frunk, but I’ve yet to use any of my EVs’ frunks, current or prior. We all buy for our needs, not the other guy’s needs.

I agree with Lucken. My wife is 5 feet tall, I am 5 feet 7. Our i4 fits us well and is an absolute bargain for the price. It is fast, corners great,

 

[WildRide47]

I

I agree with Lucken. My wife is 5 feet tall, I am 5 feet 7. Our i4 fits us well and is an absolute bargain for the price. It is fast, corners great,

In addition, the fit and finish on the car is perfect and in the 14 months we have had the car, we have never had to bring it in for anything to be fixed. Reliability that I have experienced only when I have owned previous Lexus cars(1992 SC 400 and 2002 SC430)

 

[momo3605]

Yea as a BMW fan, I highly considered the i5m60 at first to replace my m340, but when I saw how cramped the interior was, that turned into a big no for me. There’s no comparison practicality wise with a Lucid Air. I will say the new i5 is pretty hideous to me too. Hate how tall and large the front end is. Looks almost crossover’ish now. Not a sleek line to be seen anywhere

 

[Lucken]

In addition, the fit and finish on the car is perfect and in the 14 months we have had the car, we have never had to bring it in for anything to be fixed. Reliability that I have experienced only when I have owned previous Lexus cars(1992 SC 400 and 2002 SC430)

Precisely our experience too. The car has been absolutely bulletproof in over 15,000 miles and in May, 2 years.