Are We Asking the Wrong Question About Charging?

[ViperSSD]

It does/did. I don't know about the new EPA calculations, but it resulting in a lower range is why manufacturers exceed the range, which is what makes it unrealistic. The 5-cycle EPA test tried to fix that by making it more realistic, but it went too far.

They will eventually find a middle ground (and maybe the new calculation methods already have, I don't know)

I am really pessimistic on this, ICE EPA ratings have the same problem where the cycle can be straight up gamed or in reality just isn't representative of real driving.
That all being said, it would be cool if they showed a range rating and then offered ranges at different external temperatures on the same cycle.

 

[borski]

I don’t know why you keep pcoming back to cost. We’re talking about multi-billion dollar companies. A one-time EPA test whether is $10k or $50k is comparing pennies. Germans are known for underrating everything, from hp, to torque, to acceleration numbers, and even to efficiency. Do you really think they would sacrifice an EPA rated 400 range over a few $k

The 5-cycle test back in 2022 was no more accurate. It was equally inaccurate but in the wrong direction. Sure…it’s improved since then, and now seems to match 70mph sustained driving more accurately, but this is still not real world.

Because:

But I can guarantee that at least the two major Korean manufacturers use the 2-cycle test because it is cheaper and they don’t want to spend more money on what they see as “a checkbox.” It has absolutely nothing to do with trying to be “more realistic” or “help the consumer.” My source is inside the manufacturer and I will not disclose.

You don’t have to believe me; that’s fine.

From earlier in this thread.

 

[momo3605]

Because:

From earlier in this thread.

Yes…that’s why I asking you to think critically about it…why would German OEMs sacrifice a big overrated EPA rating which would help sell more EVs over a tiny one-time EPA test cost?

They have a history of underrating, I don’t know why, maybe it’s an EU regulation thing, or a gentlemen’s agreement, or they want customers to be confident to know they got everything they paid for and more…who knows…but that’s how they’ve always done it.

 

[borski]

Yes…that’s why I asking you to think critically about it…why would German OEMs sacrifice a big overrated EPA rating which would help sell more EVs over a tiny one-time EPA test cost?

They have a history of underrating, I don’t know why, maybe it’s an EU regulation thing, or a gentlemen’s agreement, or they want customers to be confident to know they got everything they paid for and more…who knows…but that’s how they’ve always done it.

I do not believe it is altruistic. The reason to sacrifice the higher mileage would be cost, equipment, having to learn a new process, etc. None of that is necessary if it just checks the same box, and they could save on the bottom line. Bean counters love this.

I don’t know if that’s true for the German manufacturers. But it is at least just as likely.

 

[ViperSSD]

I do not believe it is altruistic. The reason to sacrifice the higher mileage would be cost, equipment, having to learn a new process, etc. None of that is necessary if it just checks the same box, and they could save on the bottom line. Bean counters love this.

I don’t know if that’s true for the German manufacturers. But it is at least just as likely.

For the under-rating thing, it's been true that the German auto manufacturers have under-rated hp, at least for MB and BMW. I don't really understand why, it does make it less marketable so it's either that they want to make sure they hit the number or something I just don't understand.

 

[hmp10]

For the under-rating thing, it's been true that the German auto manufacturers have under-rated hp, at least for MB and BMW. I don't really understand why, it does make it less marketable so it's either that they want to make sure they hit the number or something I just don't understand.

Pure speculation here, but some European countries tax vehicles based on their horsepower. I wonder if some manufacturers lower the numbers to slip the power rating in under the threshold to a lower tax tier?

 

[ViperSSD]

Pure speculation here, but some European countries tax vehicles based on their horsepower. I wonder if some manufacturers lower the numbers to slip the power rating in under the threshold to a lower tax tier?

They usually tax based on displacement, not hp ....at least for the countries I'm familiar with. Im betting if they did it based on hp, they would likely measure it in some manner ....though this might explain it, if they're following a different standard for hp measurements, for example a different octane or air temp.
I may try to dig this up, would be interesting to understand

 

[hmp10]

They usually tax based on displacement, not hp ....at least for the countries I'm familiar with. Im betting if they did it based on hp, they would likely measure it in some manner ....though this might explain it, if they're following a different standard for hp measurements, for example a different octane or air temp.
I may try to dig this up, would be interesting to understand

Yeah, that's why I said I was speculating. Our company used to cover the lease cars for our European employees, but it's been a long time since I had any updates on what different countries were doing on vehicle taxation. What most sticks in my mind is the roadblocks Switzerland threw up to registering cars owned by EU citizens when we transferred them to Switzerland.